new2pyro Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 What exactly is hybrid bp. I know of whistle and strobe mixes but what's this term mean? Also, can the burn color of bp be change by merely adding different chems to the mix? I don't mean mag or al for a silver tail effect. any info would be appreciated.
Ralph Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 easiest way rather than playing with the fuel is just to stick a comment on top and quick match it to the motor
dagabu Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 What exactly is hybrid bp. I know of whistle and strobe mixes but what's this term mean? Also, can the burn color of bp be change by merely adding different chems to the mix? I don't mean mag or al for a silver tail effect. any info would be appreciated. As I understand it: Hybrid BP rockets were a collaborative effort but Steve La Duke is credited for the invention. I have included a picture of the 1# tooling for your pleasure as well as the recipe for the fuel. Hybrid motor This motor has some latitude in how many increments of whistle mix you can use, but start with four increments first and don't forget your nozzle first. The first increments consist of: 76 parts potassium perchlorate 23 parts sodium salycilate 1 part red iron oxide 10 parts ballmilled charcoal Finish the rocket with a mix of 60 parts potassium nitrate 30 parts charcoal 10 parts sulfur and 5 parts dextrin.
Miech Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Or, when using core burners use the delay section of the motor for tails. I like glitters in particular for this, compositions like D1 and Winokur 26 work very nice for this purpose.
dagabu Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 Or, when using core burners use the delay section of the motor for tails. I like glitters in particular for this, compositions like D1 and Winokur 26 work very nice for this purpose. Me like D1! Keep in mind that you MUST be well above the spindle when pressing ANY metal comp. Three motors have popped this year so far, at least two were due to metal comp being pinched. D
new2pyro Posted October 24, 2009 Author Posted October 24, 2009 ya mine was one of them hit the spindle with glitter delay Me like D1! Keep in mind that you MUST be well above the spindle when pressing ANY metal comp. Three motors have popped this year so far, at least two were due to metal comp being pinched. D
dagabu Posted October 24, 2009 Posted October 24, 2009 ya mine was one of them hit the spindle with glitter delay Was yours the one that shot up and away? D
new2pyro Posted October 24, 2009 Author Posted October 24, 2009 no mine sparked and burned on the work bench like a fountain
new2pyro Posted October 24, 2009 Author Posted October 24, 2009 (edited) here's my first tooled rocket launch if it works not sure how to post a video Or, when using core burners use the delay section of the motor for tails. I like glitters in particular for this, compositions like D1 and Winokur 26 work very nice for this purpose. silvertrim_0001.wmv silvertrim_0001.avi Edited October 24, 2009 by new2pyro
new2pyro Posted October 25, 2009 Author Posted October 25, 2009 thanks. I use a tiger tail delay with a little ti mixed in. I must have had my delay close to the spindle top as I see sparks right after launch. I just made up 7 more and just put 1 increment at the top. Waiting for the grandkidds to come over for the shoot. They enjoy it more than I do, well, at least as much! I don't have lots of chems for stars but bought some crackle and bee fuse and some strobes. I also made some penny stars which seem to burn with an aqua blue color when tested. I want to get my breaks right and consistent before I start sending up star payloads. I put a couple into the ground. Her's one that had nice height but my delay was too long. tigertail.wmv
dagabu Posted October 25, 2009 Posted October 25, 2009 thanks. I use a tiger tail delay with a little ti mixed in. I must have had my delay close to the spindle top as I see sparks right after launch. I just made up 7 more and just put 1 increment at the top. Waiting for the grandkidds to come over for the shoot. They enjoy it more than I do, well, at least as much! I don't have lots of chems for stars but bought some crackle and bee fuse and some strobes. I also made some penny stars which seem to burn with an aqua blue color when tested. I want to get my breaks right and consistent before I start sending up star payloads. I put a couple into the ground. Her's one that had nice height but my delay was too long. I like the tails you have, nice long lasting sparks. I pressed two full delay increments into my 3# motors and watched them round trip, lay on the ground for 6 seconds before popping. 1/2 increment is enough to top the spindle, delay needs to be tested and the heading needs to pop at apogee. D
derekroolz Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 thanks. I use a tiger tail delay with a little ti mixed in. I must have had my delay close to the spindle top as I see sparks right after launch. I just made up 7 more and just put 1 increment at the top. Waiting for the grandkidds to come over for the shoot. They enjoy it more than I do, well, at least as much! I don't have lots of chems for stars but bought some crackle and bee fuse and some strobes. I also made some penny stars which seem to burn with an aqua blue color when tested. I want to get my breaks right and consistent before I start sending up star payloads. I put a couple into the ground. Her's one that had nice height but my delay was too long. My rockets keep on doing the same thing (the arch effect and then hit the ground before finishing) have you been able to troubleshoot the problem. The things I have thought were the fuel isn't strong enough to keep it in the air. Or the rocket isn't properly balanced.
dagabu Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 My rockets keep on doing the same thing (the arch effect and then hit the ground before finishing) have you been able to troubleshoot the problem. The things I have thought were the fuel isn't strong enough to keep it in the air. Or the rocket isn't properly balanced. Sorry for the novel: Black Powder rockets are a tricky bugger. It takes either a very reactive composition in an end burner or a core burner to get a shell off the ground and up to a height it can be appreciated at. Core burners are great at getting the payload off the ground but suffer terribly in the delay phase where the balancing issue seems to take over. The correct plan of attack is to use a core burner to get to heading up off the ground and then use a hot BP on top of the spindle to turn it into a end-burner of sorts. Whistle rockets don't have this problem so much due to inertia. Going 150 MPH, it takes a while for the rocket to slow down and turn around. BP rockets are slower and turn pretty quick so a hot BP is needed to keep the inertia going. In my old 3# rockets, I used hard wood BP with 15% of white pine 80 mesh charcoal for the core burners portion. Nice tail, and everyone likes a nice tail once and a while! As soon as the increments passed the spindle top, I switched to the flat rammer and to a hot willow BP for the end burn. I would use 2 increments (2" on the 3# rockets) followed by a 1" bulkhead. Now I have all new tooling and am back at the starting line and learning it all over again. Why? Glad you asked... Would you like to lift a 6" ball shell weighing 5# to 600' with the whooshing sound and that beautiful white pine tail? Then you need a longer spindle and that is where the new tooling comes in to play. A 6" spindle will get me to 300' with a glorious tail, another 2" of hot comp will get me to 500' and inertia will bring me to 600' for a 6" ball shell. I am working on my shop right now, the cabinetry comes this week and the heater the week after. No pyro for November, I am afraid but once we have a nice blanket of snow on the ground, I will post videos of my search of the perfect rocket. Come join us next year in Wisconsin for the PGI convention. I might even compete? D
Mumbles Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 What kind of 6" ball shells are you building that weigh 5lbs? Triple petal zinc streamers? Could you use the bulk of the delay as BP and use the last little bit a more attractive effect? Perhaps shorten the delay a bit. I do like a nice glitter or twinkling delay.
dagabu Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 What kind of 6" ball shells are you building that weigh 5lbs? Triple petal zinc streamers? Could you use the bulk of the delay as BP and use the last little bit a more attractive effect? Perhaps shorten the delay a bit. I do like a nice glitter or twinkling delay. No matter, just use Mg/Al in the top increments or any other metal that looks good to your eye. Once it is above the spindle all bets are off. Double petal plastic hemis with pistils can weigh 5#. Lots of stars, hard break. D
Mumbles Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 I've made plenty of double petal paper shells. I'd imagine the paper and paste and all that would weigh more than the plastic. I don't recall ever having one over 3.5lbs or so.
new2pyro Posted November 3, 2009 Author Posted November 3, 2009 I just made up some with smaller delay charge. I haven't tried them yet. Next time I will try my hot bp on top with a little metal. I guess just a little adjustment on the header fuse will let it reach its apex, you think? I went to the delay because it was hitting the header way to soon. That was the first two I tried with the delay on top. I guess more work is in order. I'll see how the last batch works and post some vids. Much food for thought with these rockets.
psyco_1322 Posted November 3, 2009 Posted November 3, 2009 What kind of 6" ball shells are you building that weigh 5lbs? Triple petal zinc streamers? ROFLMAO!!! I'm so quoting that somewhere. I think most people forget or don't know there are 2 different hybrids. The hybrid #1 is an end burner, and Hybrid #2 is a core burner and is usually what people refer hybrid too. #2 uses the Universal Hybrid Tooling as displayed above. #1 uses your standard end burner tooling, or even fountain tooling. I have a video of a 1lb Hybrid #1 rocket somewhere. I'll look for it later, its not up on my photobucket I guess.
Timm Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 Speaking of developing hybrids.. I blew up too many tubes back in the day with benzolift before settling on a 30/70 mix, with the black powder in the majority... was messin with some the other day and thought, "man, i bet this stuff'd make one helluva rocket fuel.." Further experiments have yet to commence, as cato's and huge billowy clouds of smoke seems impolite in my neightborhood. Anyone try spiking their R-go with a lil whistle for use with standard BP rocket tooling?
dagabu Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 Speaking of developing hybrids.. I blew up too many tubes back in the day with benzolift before settling on a 30/70 mix, with the black powder in the majority... was messin with some the other day and thought, "man, i bet this stuff'd make one helluva rocket fuel.." Further experiments have yet to commence, as cato's and huge billowy clouds of smoke seems impolite in my neightborhood. Anyone try spiking their R-go with a lil whistle for use with standard BP rocket tooling? R-go?
Mumbles Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 I somewhat assumed it was a made up term or personal slang for rocket fuel. If so, adding whistle to it seems like a waste. Normal core burners can't even take full strength meal of good quality. It seems backward to be spicing up an already tamed down formula, when you could just adjust the original.
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