Some simple questions

[jm82792]

I want to do some ferro-titanium based fountains using skylighter's turbopyro pdf,

the charcoal fountain and some flying fish fuse mines.

 

I'm assuming this is is what I need,

sorry I want to double check.

Ferro-titanium

Potassium Nitrate

Airfloat Charcoal

80 Mesh charcoal

Sulfur

Clay for plugs

 

Random fuses like visco,

crackling fuse, flying fish fuse and quickmatch from pyrocreations

These for fountains http://www.pyrocreations.com/inc/sdetail/521

A couple for flying fish mines: http://www.pyrocreations.com/inc/sdetail/636

http://www.pyrocreations.com/inc/sdetail/56511 A scale to measure chemicals

 

 

Stuff from the house and hardware store

Razor blades

assorted wood dowels

superglue since I'd rather not do hotglue for safety.

tape

tissue paper

sharp drill bits

and other junk that can be easily found around the house.......

I'm thinking this is what I need..

 

A thought...

 

For fountains using metal I just pour what I want in after I do a clay plug,

shak/tape it to make it settle

then after it's filled plug the other end with clay then drill it by hand(manually spinning a drill bit)

a hole for the fuse that will function as a nozzle?

(The turbopyro PDF say to ram it not sure if it's just the BP one and/or the one utilizing ferro-titanium)

I've been told not to ram since the metal can cause issues,

like accidental ignition.

 

I'd rather not buy a fountain/gerb tooling kit this year around,

can I use a appropriate sized dowel to ram fountains that do not utilize metals ?

I can live with it taking twice as long since I won't be making tons of them.

 

If so how do you go about doing it ?

 

I've read and watched the whole Turbopyro PDF,

so I have a grasp but I have no experince.

 

Can I use you're "generic" pyro chemicals(I can google them since I used to know them) to color up BP charcoal based and/or metal based fountains ?

 

Thanks for the help and you're time,

Josh

Edited October 16, 2009 by jm82792

[NightHawkInLight]

All fountains must be pressed or rammed one way or another, they cannot just be loose powder in the tube. I know that FeTi/black powder compositions have been rammed, but Ti is known to make compositions more sensitive, so I'll leave the safety conclusion to someone more experienced with FeTi.

 

I can say that it is fine to ram with wooden dowels.

 

I can also tell you that black powder is not capable of producing colors with the addition of pyrotechnic coloring salts. Colors require a different oxidizer than potassium nitrate.

[jm82792]

Okay cool about using dowels since gerb/fountain tooling is something I want to buy next year.

I'm wary of ramming fountains using titanium,

if it's safe and nothing has happened, plus I'm using wood I think I'd be fine but I'm a noob.

[Ralph]

I can also tell you that black powder is not capable of producing colors with the addition of pyrotechnic coloring salts. Colors require a different oxidizer than potassium nitrate.

 

 

colour compositions can be made with potassium nitrate quite successfully they are just harder to do generally do not burn as well and in most cases do not give a rich colour they also require a lot more dialing in to get right

[NightHawkInLight]

colour compositions can be made with potassium nitrate quite successfully they are just harder to do generally do not burn as well and in most cases do not give a rich colour they also require a lot more dialing in to get right

The only colors I have ever seen come out of potassium nitrate is zinc yellow/green and a red produced with Mg and sugars. I have NEVER witnessed any colors pulled from potassium nitrate and the usual coloring salts. An example or two would be appreciated to back up your claim.

[scarbelly]

The other method that often replaces ramming is called pressing. This utilizes a hydraulic press to press down the rammer and consolidate the composition. This process is generally considered safer because it reduces shock, which some compositions are very sensitive to. If it turns out that ferrotitatanium compositions are unsafe to RAM, you should look into a press.

[jm82792]

Hmm.

Well until I know I won't be ramming anything with ferror-metals,

sometime if I get serious enough a diy press and acrylic blast shield maybe sometime someday.

 

I know how to make BP but after you dry it out how do I go about making it workable as a lift charge ?

Sorry for the dumb question about the BP lift charge

[Ralph]

just tried

1g of potaisum nitrate

1g of strontium nitrate

0.25g of perlon

0.5g of red gum

0.25g of dark al

0.25g of strotnium carb

 

it looks quite red (tried videoing but my cammera dosnt pick up colour properly nothing i record looks properly coloured (even known and proven star comps look yellow on my cammera)

[Ralph]

sorry for double post didnt see the other post

 

by dry you mean once you have granulated yes?

 

well if so its ready to go weigh out as much as you need and put it under your stars or shell in a lift cup (i just make a cone out of paper) put the fuse in and your ready to go

[jm82792]

I'm going to do just plain mines no shells this year....

Well maybe a few 1 inch shells not sure

 

Is this how I make BP so it can be used in mines and mortars that would use 1 inch shells?

 

Yes I was thinking after I dried it I had to do something,

but I was wrong...

* First take 100 grams of black powder and put it in a plastic ziploc bag.

* Second, take 10 grams of dextrin and mix that in also.

* Then, carefully pour a small amount of water. Mix well (always by hand, not a machine).

 

The mixture should become thick enough to stick together if squeezed between the fingers. If it is too dry, carefully add more water. Now, take an old spaghetti strainer and put all the wet lift powder into it and squeeze it out onto a paper plate. Let it dry in the sun for a day or two.

 

Once it is dry, some of the pieces may be a bit large. Just crumble those down. Overall the granules should be about the size of medium sized cookie crumbs, about 10-20 mesh.

Edited October 17, 2009 by jm82792

[scarbelly]

For future reference, 10 percent dextrin is a lot. (or 9.1... whatever). You will have no problems, and probably even be better off, using from 3-5%. Dextrin slows down the bp a bit, and when you don't NEED a lot, you shouldn't use a lot.

[jm82792]

Thanks for letting me know..

 

Is using a coffee grinder safe if I never mill anything but one chemical at a time(I know you can do more but it's better to do it that way so you don't switch something around) and clean it out extremely well when I switch say from an oxidizer to a fuel ?

Smaller ball mills seem economical(well somewhat) but I'm trying to do it cheaply this year then expand....

[scarbelly]

I wouldn't use a coffee grinder to mill oxidizers and fuels, even if you are cleaning it out in between. Coffee grinders are cheap, but your appendages and your life - those are not, and while the risk is low, it's better to be safe than sorry. You can always get a second one for like 10 bucks if you're thrifty. If you are planning on making good black powder in reasonable amounts of time, a ball mill is pretty much a must (a small one will work). I would not suggest trying to get by on solely a coffee grinder or two.

[NightHawkInLight]

just tried

1g of potaisum nitrate

1g of strontium nitrate

0.25g of perlon

0.5g of red gum

0.25g of dark al

0.25g of strotnium carb

 

it looks quite red (tried videoing but my cammera dosnt pick up colour properly nothing i record looks properly coloured (even known and proven star comps look yellow on my cammera)

That is interesting, though it contains strontium nitrate to oxidize the composition rather than potassium nitrate alone. I don't particularly see the purpose for potassium nitrate in the composition at all, unless to perhaps lower the ignition temp.

[Ralph]

i just mixed some stuff up randomly to prove my point since i started making chlorate and buying perchlorate i have forgotten the mixtures i used to use. a barium green (with out using barium chloride) would be virtually impossible with potassium nitrate

[jm82792]

I wouldn't use a coffee grinder to mill oxidizers and fuels, even if you are cleaning it out in between. Coffee grinders are cheap, but your appendages and your life - those are not, and while the risk is low, it's better to be safe than sorry. You can always get a second one for like 10 bucks if you're thrifty. If you are planning on making good black powder in reasonable amounts of time, a ball mill is pretty much a must (a small one will work). I would not suggest trying to get by on solely a coffee grinder or two.

Okay I see, I've spent a good amount of money on my Reef setup, plus college costs and I'm reluctant to buy one,

but the safety(plug it in away from myself int he backyard) and performance side of me, plus it's only 3X the cost of 2 coffer grinders.

 

I'll look at ebay and see if I can find one that's used and high quality or if there are some that are being sold direct, I'll stay away from low quality stuff...

[scarbelly]

Yeah I understand your dilemma. Unfortunately you will find that pyro is not a cheap hobby. You might get lucky if you ask around people who've had kids if they have an old rock tumbler. I've been using an old one from my garage as I slowly get together my homemade ball mill.

 

BTW, what is a Reef setup?

[TheEskimo]

For your fountains, you can press them by body weight alone. You would build the fountain backwards. First ram in you clay that will be used as your nozzle. Second, put in one increment of fuel, and apply your body weight to the top of the rammer. Repeat until the tube is almost full. Put in an endplug, such as those made from paper or cardboard. Glue to a board for stability, and slowly handdrill out the nozzle.

This will work on fountains up tp 5/8 ID, and 5 inches long.

[jm82792]

Well it's less than reefing,

average hobbiest spends 1K on a reef with some livestock,

I got away with a 1/3 of that by ruthlessly looking for stuff to collect.

 

A reef setup is an aquarium with corals and fish,

they can get pretty expensive the bigger you go.

Well keeping in mind some corals are in totally different levels of difficulty and requirments.

 

 

Anyways back on topic,

I know how I'd make a DIY ball mill rotate,

but what could/should/if I can use for the barrel and what contacts the chemicals ?

PVC sounds bad because of sparks,

although it's 100% humidity out here not sure about ABS or other plastics.

 

The 3LB one from pyrocreations is $75 shipped,

DIY could be half and I don't mind doing it,

I can even change the speed using Pulse Width Modulation,

basically it can make a DC motor from a hand drill go faster and slower from how much time it's on or off.

 

I was thinking 2 cylinders,

one spins the other moves freely,

for the ball mill I'd use a large plastic bottle with a cap(imagine a large vitamin bottle),

each one would be for each chemical since they are cheap.

Would only be able to do a couple cups in each bottle but I could do 2 bottles at once.

 

Like this but I'd use a battery powered(I'd hack it to run from a low voltage power supply) drill and maybe use a microcontroller to control the speed.

http://gpex.ca/smf/index.php?topic=881.0

Edited October 17, 2009 by jm82792

[TheEskimo]

PVC or rubber barrels are what we hobbiests use. I have a PVC barrel 4 inches by 14 inches. Media you want to be hardened lead or brass. Here's a good page on DIY ball mill construction. http://www.creagan.net/fireworks/misc.html#ballmill

For small jobs I just use, like you said, those vitamin jars, or the jars that assorted food items come in.

Media selection depends on what you want. Large media breaks stuff up faster. Small media breaks it up finer. For a 4 inch barrel, 1/2 inch media (45-54 cal. balls) seems about right. For 6 and 8 inch barrels, 3/4'' media (cylinders 3/4'' round and 1-1.5 inches long) works great. The smaller media would still work in the larger barrels (if you had enough of it). Round or cylindrical media is most used. Anything will work but it might not be as efficient.

[Twotails]

I ram Fountins, Alot with Ferrotitanium, and there relitivly safe, I use a wooden rammer, and ram it in small amounts by hand if its a small fountin, or with a mallet ( roughly 3-5 taps) to solidate fule. I sometimes bind them with Redgum, and let them dry.

[jm82792]

Thanks twotails for the information.

 

Well my plan was to do them here since new years is massive,

you see people taking $500 packages of fireworks(mostly Asian ethnicity) from costco,

it's that big here.

I have a really good friend of mine and that's what we were going to do since the chance of me moving is pretty good.

 

But I might be moving to Oregon before that,

I'm still in the air since it's a parent work related move.

 

But If I do live in Oregon(if so I'll be there before the end of the year),

what does this permit mean ?

http://www.fireworks.com/fireworks_laws/laws_oregon.asp

 

I could live with paying the $50 since I'll have a job again soon,

but what does 1.4 grams means when it comes to making you're own fireworks ??

 

I have a 6 acre pasture to light stuff over there,

in the winter there is no fire hazard in the summer the pasture is mowed...

 

My dream is that I can legally do small shells,

mines and such there.

[Skycastlefish]

what does 1.4 grams means

 

 

The G in 1.4G doesn’t actually stand for grams. 1.3G and 1.4G are hazardous material classifications. 1.4G are usually the commercial fireworks you can buy at a store (black cats, bottle rockets) and 1.3G are display fireworks.

[jm82792]

Okay I see.

 

LIMITED PUBLIC DISPLAY FIREWORKS (1.4G)

Application must be submitted to the State Fire Marshal, along with $50 fee, and must be postmarked at least 15 days before the display date. A separate permit is required for each display.

Insurance Amount as required by local fire authority but not less than $500.

Operator Certification required. Must be 18 years of age or older and be certified by State Fire Marshal.

Oregon Administrative Rules 837-012-0700 through 837-012-0970

 

I'll be qualified in a year,

so that means mortars and the stuff you could buy in Washington and other places ?

 

If so that's pretty cool,

but then... http://www.pyropage.com/GettingLegal/GettingLegal.html

Well if I get serious enough..

Edited October 18, 2009 by jm82792