AdmiralDonSnider Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 As I want to start out with small round shells soon (mainly 3" for the first trials), I currently wonder which kind of charcoal you have to use in the classic charges such as H3. Shimizu´s standard says hemp, but am I right that any fast BP charcoal will work well? I´ve willow, alder and alder buckthorn handy. Just for academic interest: I know that H3 and KP are handmixed (screened) composites, but does BP (the charge recommended for 8" and other large shells) refer to green mix or processed gunpowder?
Ralph Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 today was really bored (doing revision) so i decided to make some H3 used some of my super charcoal (very similar to balsa but its free and better) use 2g of chlorate 0.5g of charcoal and it made some prety impressive H3 which is 80 20 which is a little off and it was super powerful (was shooting tiny rolled silver streamers out of 1/4" tubes )
Mumbles Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 The black powder for larger shells is still processed by ball milling. Some recommend hot charcoal up to about 10" and a slower charcoal with commercial charcoal above that. I'll see if I can find that source. It was an article by Jim Widmann in the PGI bulletin a few years ago. I've never heard that Hemp was all too fast. I'd try to repllicate it with something a little less powerful than willow, or alder buckthorn, especially as you approach the larger shells. I tend to use lumpwood charcoal or my KP and KP like mixes. I used willow once in a rather powerful KP analogue, and it blew EVERYTHING blind. This includes spider stars.
Bonny Posted October 9, 2009 Posted October 9, 2009 With good BP, good pasting and a booster of slow flash or whistle, you can burst small shells nicely without needing H3. I tried granulated H3 (made with pine charcoal) in some 1" can shells a few years ago, and all the stars were blown blind... and they were primed chlorate stars that light very easily. I've only built shells up to 5'', but only use riced BP/pulverone and/or BP on a carrier.
AdmiralDonSnider Posted November 17, 2009 Author Posted November 17, 2009 I´ve recently made my first batch of H3 using homemade paulownia charcoal. I´m still unsure about how a fine materials to use. I remember a line by Shimizu where he says that the finer the charcoal the better, therefor I screened both the chlorate and the charcoal through 300 mesh, probably a bit excessive. Do you guys use (separately) milled chemicals? Will materials passing 150 mesh only be inferior? By the way: The H3 burned with a sizzling sound, the one like slow flash, when it was in powder form, but on hulls it was a lot faster.
Twotails Posted November 18, 2009 Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) I also did some testing, Finaly used those charcoals i made.First off(in order of reactivity,)Hemp(AF was used(or close to it),seemed to burn in one big "poof")Mixed woods(cherry, all hardwoods Seems much slower in comparison than Hemp)Bamboo (Weird in a way, seemed just as fast as the mixed wood, But, somehow diffrent, more sparkish maby?) The hemp was potent, and the Bamboo slightly weak. I decided to do a 50/50 mix and see how it works compared to the Mixedwood. It seemed usable, although it was slightly more powderful than expected. Im going to stick with the mixed wood, that way i still get a good amount of power. Edited November 18, 2009 by Twotails
abomb10 Posted November 18, 2009 Posted November 18, 2009 Sorry this is my first post. I can't make a new thread I can only reply to existing ones. The admins haven't answered my emails. I need some simple help for a film project. I'm shooting a scene with homeless guys who lights a trash can fire. I want them to drop in a match and it to flare up (not too high but enough to come out of the trash can a bit). Then I need the fire to stay light and above the can's lid for about 20-30 minutes of filming. Any idea how much lighter fluid and paper/wood I should put in the can for this to work? Sorry for posting on this thread. If anyone can help me create a new topic please help!! Thanks!!
Mumbles Posted November 18, 2009 Posted November 18, 2009 It's because until now you had 0 posts. With one post, you now have full member rights, and can start threads, view videos in the gallery, and several other things I can't think of right now. You'll be able to start your thread now. I only check the admin mail about once a day and hadn't yet gotten to it, so I hope this will suffice instead of a formal reply.
firetech Posted November 18, 2009 Posted November 18, 2009 Once the wood itself catches and is burning on its own it will stay lit for a while. No idea how much starter fuel it will take. There are a lot of variables. Poking some holes in the bottom of the can will help the fire a lot. Good luck.
abomb10 Posted November 18, 2009 Posted November 18, 2009 Thanks guys. Sorry for interrupting this thread. I will start a new one and ask some other questions.
AdmiralDonSnider Posted November 19, 2009 Author Posted November 19, 2009 I´m still unsure about how a fine materials to use. I remember a line by Shimizu where he says that the finer the charcoal the better, therefor I screened both the chlorate and the charcoal through 300 mesh, probably a bit excessive. Do you guys use (separately) milled chemicals? Will materials passing 150 mesh only be inferior?
50AE Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 To make a H3 burst to perfom the true way, you have to get the chemicals as fine as ball milled black powder. Mill them individually, screen many times and them granulate the pulverone method. You should get the true very hot H3 burst.
Arthur Posted November 19, 2009 Posted November 19, 2009 My take on burst is; for paper hemis pasted into shells or paper cans spiked well. 3" shells should break properly with a fast BP Smaller shells may need some boosting with flash or whistle, larger shells will blow blind so some carrier/diluent is a good plan or use weaker BP.
Bonny Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I think your 300 mesh chems should be great. Although it has been a few years, when I made H3 the chems were ~100mesh. It was granulated and performed quite well.I was blowing 1" can shells bling - with primed chlorate stars!
Ventsi Posted December 23, 2009 Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) I've got a bit of a dilemma here. I just bought 1lb of grass seeds and upon opening I noticed slight turquoise hues here and there. It turns out that the seed have a pesticide with them. Its *( R )-[(2,6-dimethylphenyl)-methoxyacetylamino] -propionic acid methyl ester. More common as Mefenoxam, or Metalaxyl-M. Now this speaks zilch to me. I did put a small amount of seeds in water and the compound did dissolve to turn the water a bright blue hue. Now would this compound possibly be a dangerous one to come in contact in with BP/KP etc? I'm sure that no matter how much of it I try to take out of the seeds there will be still some left into the pores, but would this possibly cause any sensitivity or even worse instability issues? Also when you guys speak of coating a carrier, in a 4:1 ratio, is that 4Carrier/1Burst or 4Burst/1Carrier? I suspect the latter but I thought I should ask. Edited December 23, 2009 by Ventsi
dagabu Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 (edited) I've got a bit of a dilemma here. I just bought 1lb of grass seeds and upon opening I noticed slight turquoise hues here and there. It turns out that the seed have a pesticide with them. Its *( R )-[(2,6-dimethylphenyl)-methoxyacetylamino] -propionic acid methyl ester. More common as Mefenoxam, or Metalaxyl-M. Now this speaks zilch to me. I did put a small amount of seeds in water and the compound did dissolve to turn the water a bright blue hue. Now would this compound possibly be a dangerous one to come in contact in with BP/KP etc? I'm sure that no matter how much of it I try to take out of the seeds there will be still some left into the pores, but would this possibly cause any sensitivity or even worse instability issues? Also when you guys speak of coating a carrier, in a 4:1 ratio, is that 4Carrier/1Burst or 4Burst/1Carrier? I suspect the latter but I thought I should ask. Grass seed will still work but you will get almost instant germination with close contact with KNO3. KNO3 is used in the water when hydro-seeding is used and makes the seed germinate. Take your seed and dump it into a 5 gallon pail, add enough hot water to dissolve the coating, screen the seed out, empty the bucket and repeat until the water flows clear. Take your grass seed and place it into pans, turn the oven on to 225(freakishly strange, I cant alt 0176 for the degree symbol) degrees F for minimum of two hours. ALL of the grass seed needs to be toasted to kill the germ in the seed or it will sprout. The proper ration is this, First item:second item, Black Powder:grass seed. 4:1 indicates 4k of BP to 1k of grass seed. Have fun.... and post some dang pictures! :0 Edited December 24, 2009 by dagabu
Ventsi Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 I'll post a few pictures of the coating procedure, since I seem to remember some being requested. Something weird. When the seeds were first rinsed, there was a bright wash off, a bright blue that reminded me of a Copper Sulfate solution. Then the water started running clear, just to be sure I left the seeds in a stocking inside of a 2gal bucket filled with hot water, after about an hour, the water was a deep dark green, as if there was a secondary pesticide. Once this was over with I rinsed the seeds several more times, left them in water for an additional 20 min, and rinsed again. Now they are drying/roasting at 250F*. My dad's got my camera, so no pictures until later tonight.
Mumbles Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 That's because it probably is copper sulfate. As far as the dark green, I have no idea. Mefenoxam is white to yellow to amber, at least those are the colors of the preparations I've found.
Ventsi Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 Another question, I intend to use these as a filler in canister shells since I'm suck of dumping loads of pulverone to fill up the gaps between stars /inserts. What would a good ratio for this be? They aren't going to be the primary burst, more of a filler along with a flash bag.Would 2:1 be a good place to start?
psyco_1322 Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 Why not just throw the grass seed onto your lawn and go get some Rice Crispies?
Ventsi Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 They are too big for that. They won't slide and lock into place in between the star like grass seed would. I just realized that grass seed is much more dense than rice hulls too, I saw a tutorial using a 1:1 ratio with the end product looking like what I desire.
firetech Posted December 24, 2009 Posted December 24, 2009 Rice hulls are tremendously lightweight and have a ton of volume. They also burn up very easily. It's worth it to buy 5lbs. They are cheap anyway and it'll take forever to run out.
Ventsi Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 Sorry guys, I forgot about the pictures. Icky green seeds!http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/asota_2006/P1080315.jpg The run off solution.http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/asota_2006/P1080327.jpg CLEAN! http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/asota_2006/P1080329.jpg
Bonny Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 They are too big for that. They won't slide and lock into place in between the star like grass seed would. I just realized that grass seed is much more dense than rice hulls too, I saw a tutorial using a 1:1 ratio with the end product looking like what I desire. Do you mean rice crispies are too big?? I don't think so, unless you are trying to break 1" shells really hard.I've started using rice crisipies for all my shells (2" and larger) and they work great. On 1" shells I just use whatever junk is lying around (meal D,meal powder, star chunks, extra prime etc...)
firetech Posted January 3, 2010 Posted January 3, 2010 Bonny, my only concern would be if the shells were not intended to be fired immediately, settling may occur as the pieces crumble down to dust.
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