KruseMissile Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 I made some Degn, Green Report flash powder. That stuff is really really powerful! I lit .5g of it and i could feel the pressure hit my chest! But has anyone had experience with this stuff? I wanna use it for a 3.5" bottom shot. Thanks Degn, Green Report-Magnesium, gran., 80-200 mesh :1Barium Nitrate :1Potassium Perchlorate :0.125 Also should i coat my Mg before using it?
Miech Posted October 3, 2009 Posted October 3, 2009 (edited) This stuff isn't meant to be used for a bottom shot. Firstly, it is way to sensitive due to the use of magnesium. Secondly, it's going to be white because of the way to large amount of flash needed for a bottom shot that size. Powders like this are meant to be used for things like beraq's and other small reports. Edit: Your magnesium should either be coated or treated with potassium dichromate before any use in pyrotechnics. For use in flash powders I would recommend the latter, as the first seems to reduce performance. Edited October 3, 2009 by Miech
KruseMissile Posted October 4, 2009 Author Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) Yeah i was thinking of that. I only made 2g of it and its kinda cool but way too strong for me. I'll think about the beraq shell then 2"-3". And ill coat it when i have time. Thanks Edited October 4, 2009 by KruseMissile
Uranus Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 Hi. First time commentor. I found a formula also labeled Degn Green Burst.47.06 Magnalium 47.06 Barium nitrate 5.88 Potassium Perchlorate I'm not sure what to expect now that I see a different formula with the same name.
fredjr Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 (edited) check your math Edited July 17, 2023 by fredjr
Uranus Posted July 17, 2023 Posted July 17, 2023 Lol. I don't have any math to check. I have a recipe and some enthusiasm. I am interested in a nice stable recipe that will give an m-80 report with a green flash. I have tried it and I like the results but I don't have much to compare with. I am a humble beginner who would happily receive any advice or tips that you might care to offer. ✌ 1
cmjlab Posted July 18, 2023 Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) The Degn Green Formula I'm tracking, is: 1 Part Mg/Al1 Part Barium Nitrate1/8 Part PVC Or your formula except replace the KCL04 with PVC. Edited July 18, 2023 by cmjlab 1
Uranus Posted July 18, 2023 Posted July 18, 2023 Thanks for the input. From what I understand, the PVC will help bring out the green?
Richtee Posted July 18, 2023 Posted July 18, 2023 Thanks for the input. From what I understand, the PVC will help bring out the green?Yep. A “cool” color, like blues and violets. Something about them actually limiting combustion/oxygen in the flame envelope I think? I don’t F with color much any more. But I ALMOST had a good blue 15 years ago. Then..a long story 1
Uranus Posted July 18, 2023 Posted July 18, 2023 Lol. Awesome. I've only just begun this craft. Just a fascinating pass time! I am really starving for more information on this topic. I feel like any flying projects will be in the future sometime, maybe. Right now I am trying to get a tight grip on the mixtures and the do's and don'ts etc. As well as just have a quality finished product.
Mumbles Posted July 18, 2023 Posted July 18, 2023 Lol. I don't have any math to check. I have a recipe and some enthusiasm. I am interested in a nice stable recipe that will give an m-80 report with a green flash. I have tried it and I like the results but I don't have much to compare with. I am a humble beginner who would happily receive any advice or tips that you might care to offer. ✌ I think he meant try converting the formula from the first post to percentages. 2
Uranus Posted July 18, 2023 Posted July 18, 2023 I'm starting to feel like I don't even know enough to be able to ask the questions that I have in an understandable way. Can someone point me to a book or some literature that will help enlighten me? So much of what I have found is focused on construction or complex aerial stuff. Trying to avoid learning pyro the hard way.✌
SharkWhisperer Posted July 19, 2023 Posted July 19, 2023 (edited) check your math I'm starting to feel like I don't even know enough to be able to ask the questions that I have in an understandable way. Can someone point me to a book or some literature that will help enlighten me? So much of what I have found is focused on construction or complex aerial stuff. Trying to avoid learning pyro the hard way.✌U, what's your background to date? This is not a test and I'm not messing with you. What country (probably US? what region?) are you in? Approx what age range are you in? Any science school classes in your history? Great you want to learn fireworking not "the hard way"! Folks will try to help you out. In answer to your earlier question, PVC is a "chlorine donor". Chlorine reacts with a lot of intermediary chemicals at high temperatures (pyro temps) to bring out colors. For example, strontium comps that contain PVC burn redder because of the formation of strontium monochloride, which emits reasonably pure red wavelengths at fireworking temperatures. That's just one example. Toss out some anonymous info about your background and your interests--I saw a flash comp in an early post, which is a common first investigation (though I wish it wasn't), but what else do you want to learn? Not sure if the addition of perc (potassium perchlorate) was a typo instead of PVC in the formula you posted but it's a simple formula so let's look more closely at it. Per cmj's take on Degn's comp (I am not familiar and am not researching who is correct re the PVC vs perc formulation...). 1 Part Mg/Al1 Part Barium Nitrate1/8 Part PVC Barium nitrate is the sole oxidizer here. It's a good oxidizer. Pretty toxic though, so it's not a beginner chem. It makes great bright white formulas and very decent green ones in the presence of chlorine. MgAl metal as a fuel will bring reaction (burn) temperatures high enough so that colors can shine. Too low or too high temps and colors suffer. PVC is a plastic fuel that contains a lot of chlorine, which is released at high(ish) temperatures. It forms monochloride compounds (here with barium) that emit light that we perceive as green. We use the precursor powders so no, you can't get the same effects by grinding up old pvc plastic pipes (or so I'm told...). There are many chems we use as chlorine donors--Parlon is another commonly used in recent decades (chlorinated rubber). Saran is another (similar plastic to what's in plastic wrap in your kitchen). They differ a bit in fuel quality, chlorine content, and cost but generally serve the same purpose. Colors are great fun and gorgeous, but I'd really recommend you start off teaching yourself how to make good blackpowder (BP). Reliably. It's the foundation of fireworking and without it you are not launching your colored stars aloft. It's also the chokepoint where many potential fireworkers give up, though it is pretty simple to achieve with good information. Have fun! Fireworking/pyro is a blast--there is nothing else like it. Check out Ned Gorski's free youtube vids on Fireworking 101. Stay safe. Edited July 19, 2023 by SharkWhisperer 1
Uranus Posted July 19, 2023 Posted July 19, 2023 Awesome. I'm from Ohio in the 1960's. I am interested in a robust firecracker that produces a green flash. My only experience is some 70-30 firecrackers of different sizes and shapes. I found the recipe that I referenced on Fireworks Cookbook. It was labeled Degn Green burst/report. It looked like a fairly safe and simple recipe. I have tried a lot of various hobbies in my time, and I am a firm believer in dipping a toe in rather than diving in head first. I have lived quite a while in mostly one piece and have strong intentions of continuing this trend for as long as possible. I may possibly progress to airborne pursuits, but for now I would like to focus on educating myself to have a better understanding of safety, pitfalls and proper practices. It seems that even an expert could slip up and have issues so my goal is build a solid foundation before progressing to a more advanced level. Thank you so much for responding. Like I said earlier, I am just fascinated with the things I have learned at this early stage and I am starving for more! ✌
Richtee Posted July 19, 2023 Posted July 19, 2023 Like I said earlier, I am just fascinated with the things I have learned at this early stage and I am starving for more! ✌How’s yer BP? See the thread I just bumped. 1
Uranus Posted July 19, 2023 Posted July 19, 2023 That's fast lol. I have learned a little about BP. It does look like fun. I enjoyed muzzle loading for several years. I found it very interesting to see how it is made and the difference between a suitable muzzle loading BP vs fireworks grade. Is this where a guy who is interested in progressing should start?
Richtee Posted July 19, 2023 Posted July 19, 2023 That's fast lol. I have learned a little about BP. It does look like fun. I enjoyed muzzle loading for several years. I found it very interesting to see how it is made and the difference between a suitable muzzle loading BP vs fireworks grade. Is this where a guy who is interested in progressing should start?BP is the cornerstone of everything. Well, mostly everything. Think of it as the first merit badge. 1
Uranus Posted July 19, 2023 Posted July 19, 2023 Ok. I'd better get a ball mill I guess. My next adventure!
Mumbles Posted August 3, 2023 Posted August 3, 2023 Uranus, to fill in the blank from before, the formula you posted and the formula from the original post are the same. 1 part out of 2.125 parts total is 47.06%. Degn, Green Report-Magnesium, gran., 80-200 mesh :1Barium Nitrate :1Potassium Perchlorate :0.125 Degn Green Burst.47.06 Magnalium 47.06 Barium nitrate5.88 Potassium Perchlorate
JesterFrost Posted August 26, 2023 Posted August 26, 2023 Could copper powder be added instead?i5 burns green in campfires but I don't know if it would work the same in an explosion
cmjlab Posted August 26, 2023 Posted August 26, 2023 Barium Nitrate is the primary oxidizer in addition to being the color emitter in this formula. Copper powder would not work as a direct replacement. You could potentially try adding some copper powder to see if it improves the color, but without tweaking the oxidizer ratio, the copper powder will slow the burn a bit. It would probably still work with an addition of a small amount of copper powder. Above 10%-15% I'd guess that you would notice a slower burn speed and it wouldn't really create a "report" unless you confine it really well.
Arthur Posted August 26, 2023 Posted August 26, 2023 Pyro copper blues come from a copper chlorine radicle decomposition. Pyro copper greens come largely from copper hydroxyl radicle decomposition. This is why good blues are hard.
MicroGram Posted August 26, 2023 Posted August 26, 2023 I made 2 grams of 'green flash' last night using 50/50 Barium Chlorate/Magnalium -325 mesh. It made a very nice bright green flash. I didn't test the sensitivity of this powder as it was late and I didn't want to make any reports, but apparently its quite sensitive/dangerous.
MicroGram Posted September 23, 2023 Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) Made another 2g of the 50/50 Barium Chlorate/Magnalium -325 mesh to test sensitivity to impact and it was VERY reactive. Medium hammer blows set it off almost every time. Surprisingly i couldn't get it to go off from friction; rubbing the hammer head on rough concrete with some comp in between wouldn't do it for me. But yea, utmost care must to taken when playing with this comp! Made a cracker with about 1.5g. Had a nice green flash and loud report. Edited September 23, 2023 by MicroGram
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