AdmiralDonSnider Posted September 17, 2009 Posted September 17, 2009 In my quest for good-looking 30mm bombette breaks I´m currently trying to realize tailed star breaks (mainly charcoal streamers but also glitters etc.) that are both large and dense. It seems that this aim is not that easy to achieve... The main problem is the high burn rate of charcoal streamers (e.g. TT). If you make the stars small enough for a dense burst (e.g. 5mm cut) the burst remains small. If you make them larger, the burst is widened, but looses its density; however, the major problem of larger stars is the weak symmetry of the burst. It seems to be very hard (at least in case of bombettes) to get an even break with large stars. There is a video by Coil in the Cake/Mine Competition section; he also uses 30mm bombettes with tailed stars (Tiger Tail), but seems to be rewarded with breaks both rather even and large. I don´t know how he manages to get a large number of TT stars into his limited 30mm case, and - still more important - how he manages to get his TT stars burn that long... (I asked him but he didn´t answer..) Any ideas?
Seymour Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 Using a charcoal that burns slowly, while still giving nice sparks would help, though not with getting more symmetrical breaks. What charcoal do you usually use for C streamers?
Pretty green flame Posted September 24, 2009 Posted September 24, 2009 You could try this made with BBQ lump charcoal, it burns a bit slower than TT, and the extra dextrin in here should give you enough strenght in the stars so to survive TNT as the break (seriously, i'm only kidding with the TNT...) Potassium nitrate - 53.5%Charcoal - 26.5%Sulfer - 10.5%Dextrine - 9.5% PGF
AdmiralDonSnider Posted September 25, 2009 Author Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) Using a charcoal that burns slowly, while still giving nice sparks would help, though not with getting more symmetrical breaks. What charcoal do you usually use for C streamers? Probably, yes. I currently use commercial beech charcoal for my streamers, gives nice branching. Symmetry is not an issue in these small units as long as you keep the star size small (up to about 6mm), but if you dump in chunks of 8mm the symmetry is weak. You could try this made with BBQ lump charcoal, it burns a bit slower than TT, and the extra dextrin in here should give you enough strenght in the stars so to survive TNT as the break (seriously, i'm only kidding with the TNT...) Potassium nitrate - 53.5%Charcoal - 26.5%Sulfer - 10.5%Dextrine - 9.5% PGF I´ll give it a try. I also have some Shimizu Willow stars drying - they´ll probably also work in the 5mm size. By the way, Coil took the time to answer my PM and revealed that he used 5mm (!) TT stars. The long burn duration (see his video) may have to do with the type of charcoal, but - much more likely - with the fact that he uses a lot of nitrate flash (3-4 grams) to break the things. The strong flashlight at the break could signify that the wall is too weak for the amount of flash or vice versa. Edited September 25, 2009 by AdmiralDonSnider
dagabu Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 I´ll give it a try. I also have some Shimizu Willow stars drying - they´ll probably also work in the 5mm size. Man, I have 5# of Shimizu Willow stars that were a complete bust!! I tried two batched when the first refused to work. The second is just like the first, burns slow, no sparks, cut stars fall to the ground expended but still square and hard. I think that these will go into the star burn pile next spring. Let me know if these work for you end then let me know exactly how you made them since this is my very favorite effect of all. Dave
AdmiralDonSnider Posted September 25, 2009 Author Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) Up to now I´ve never shot a handful, but I know what you mean. A sneak preview suggested that mine will behave the same way, although I was quite sure that they´ll behave differently in the air... Maybe this is because I only screened them, no milling. How did you mix yours? You could ask for help in a separate topic, would be interesting what the members say. I´m still searching for charcoal streamer that will behave well when used as the main effect in bombettes. When I mix them with color stars to make sort of a palm appearance, they work very well; but as soon as I try to shoot the same streamers as a standalone effect, I can either use a.) many small stars and have an even but small break of fire dust, or use b.) a few large stars and have a large, but very uneven break. Edited September 25, 2009 by AdmiralDonSnider
dagabu Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) Maybe this is because I only screened them, no milling. How did you mix yours? You could ask for help in a separate topic, would be interesting what the members say. I followed the Passfire recipe perfectly the first time with milling and screen mixed the second time. I am going to try a different recipe soon and if it works I will see what the differences are and how to get to the willow again. I will likely try tiger tail next: Potassium Nitrate 44 Charcoal Airfloat 44 Rice Starch (glutinous) 6 Sulfur 6 Pine charcoal, ballmill, water for the binder. It has a little more KNO3 then the willow, otherwise, it's pretty close. Edited September 25, 2009 by dagabu
Bonny Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 I followed the Passfire recipe perfectly the first time with milling and screen mixed the second time. I am going to try a different recipe soon and if it works I will see what the differences are and how to get to the willow again. I will likely try tiger tail next: Potassium Nitrate 44 Charcoal Airfloat 44 Rice Starch (glutinous) 6 Sulfur 6 Pine charcoal, ballmill, water for the binder. It has a little more KNO3 then the willow, otherwise, it's pretty close. TT is a very nice star and is quite forgiving if you overwet (within reason) in my experience. When I make it I usually ballmill for 10hrs or more (non optimized mill short on media).
dagabu Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 TT is a very nice star and is quite forgiving if you overwet (within reason) in my experience. When I make it I usually ballmill for 10hrs or more (non optimized mill short on media). Whats the recipe for TT?
psyco_1322 Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 (edited) Whats the recipe for TT?Hmmm.... I followed the Passfire recipe perfectly the first time with milling and screen mixed the second time. I am going to try a different recipe soon and if it works I will see what the differences are and how to get to the willow again. I will likely try tiger tail next: Potassium Nitrate 44 Charcoal Airfloat 44 Rice Starch (glutinous) 6 Sulfur 6 Pine charcoal, ballmill, water for the binder. It has a little more KNO3 then the willow, otherwise, it's pretty close.Are you high? Anyways. Tiger tail works very nice when you want a dense tailed charcoal star. It's probably not the best to hammer with a hard flash break, but it lights easy. I have used pine charcoal with the formula and it produces a nice long hanging tail. The slower the charcoal, the smaller you can make them. It doesn't really have to be ball milled, you can hand mix it. It will give you a little slower burn time at the cost of ease and maybe a bit of tail density. Its still way denser, on the tail, than mixes like C-6 or C-8. If you use SGRS, and not dextrin, the tail will look better, but dextrin works equally good for a binder with the formula. I was using about a 3/8" TT star in some 3" shell and they were burning a bit longer than wanted. Shoot for some 1/4" TT stars. Edited September 25, 2009 by psyco_1322
dagabu Posted September 25, 2009 Posted September 25, 2009 Hmmm.... Are you high? Anyways. Tiger tail works very nice when you want a dense tailed charcoal star. It's probably not the best to hammer with a hard flash break, but it lights easy. I have used pine charcoal with the formula and it produces a nice long hanging tail. The slower the charcoal, the smaller you can make them. It doesn't really have to be ball milled, you can hand mix it. It will give you a little slower burn time at the cost of ease and maybe a bit of tail density. Its still way denser, on the tail, than mixes like C-6 or C-8. If you use SGRS, and not dextrin, the tail will look better, but dextrin works equally good for a binder with the formula. I was using about a 3/8" TT star in some 3" shell and they were burning a bit longer than wanted. Shoot for some 1/4" TT stars. LOL!! DUH! Sorry, not too quick tonight, pretty hard week, only one rocket and I bent my spindle on a new nozzle mix... GRRRRRR. Dave
Mumbles Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 I've heard that the shimizu willow is balanced on not burning as is. If using unreactive charcoals in it, they won't burn, or will just ash up as you describe. If you're up for it, try increasing the nitrate 3 parts or so, and dropping the charcoal back. The effect will be nearly identical, yet will actually burn. My favorite streamer is still Degn spider stars. They are so bushy, and will light if you look at them wrong.
dagabu Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 I've heard that the shimizu willow is balanced on not burning as is. If using unreactive charcoals in it, they won't burn, or will just ash up as you describe. If you're up for it, try increasing the nitrate 3 parts or so, and dropping the charcoal back. The effect will be nearly identical, yet will actually burn. My favorite streamer is still Degn spider stars. They are so bushy, and will light if you look at them wrong. Hate to ask but do you have that recipe?
Mumbles Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 So demanding, heh. KNO3 - 15C - 9S - 2Dex - 2 Ball mill as one would for good BP. There is another using BP that doesn't need to be milled, but I like that one.
dagabu Posted September 26, 2009 Posted September 26, 2009 So demanding, heh. KNO3 - 15C - 9S - 2Dex - 2 Ball mill as one would for good BP. There is another using BP that doesn't need to be milled, but I like that one. Sorry Mumbles, but a Pyro has to do what a Pyro has to do.
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