go- getter effect

[lokys]

Hello,

 

maybe someone have some info about go getter effect?

 

thanks.

[NightHawkInLight]

Hello,

 

maybe someone have some info about go getter effect?

 

thanks.

Yes. Go-getters are basically tiny pressed open nozzle rockets. They use a very fast fuel to propel them around the sky. I have also had some success simulating the go-getter effect buy using fast burning star compositions and only priming one side of each star.

Edited September 12, 2009 by NightHawkInLight

[TheSidewinder]

The "Pyrotechnic Compositions" section isn't for information requests.

 

Since this was posted in the wrong section, I'll move it to the Newbie section.

[Ralph]

shumazus brilliant core does this

Barium nitrate 66

Aluminium (fine flake) 27

Boric acid 1

SGRS 6

 

its also an effect i have noticed in high metal content greens i have been testing

[lokys]

I find something interesting abuot go - getters:

 

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20030415130909/...r.com/goget.htm

Edited September 13, 2009 by lokys

[dagabu]

I find something interensting abuot go - getters:

 

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20030415130909/...r.com/goget.htm

 

Saweet! I have used the red mix with great success in crap plastic hemis. Nice find.

 

Dave

[lokys]

Saweet! I have used the red mix with great success in crap plastic hemis. Nice find.

 

Dave

yes, i think this information enough, to do that effect.. one interesting question : what is Magnesium Powder mesh - ........ ? 

 

 

( sorry for my english language mistakes )

 

thanks, for all.

[PyroMan LTU]

it probably must be very fine 150 or finer since these type of compositions must be fast burning

[dagabu]

it probably must be very fine 150 or finer since these type of compositions must be fast burning

 

Looking elsewhere, I see that 400 mesh is common but I think you would have to try different sizes to get the effect you want. I used both 1000 mesh and 400 mesh, both were fine.

 

Dave

[Cookieman]

Can some one please tell me the advantages and disadvantages of a nitrate based go-getter and an Ap/Al based one. eg. fusing, which one burns a brighter colour, which one needs a special burst charge, moisture issues with the AP/Al comp.etc.... I wanted to make some, but I'm not sure which one I should go with. I know I'm replying to an old post, but I'm hoping to get some discussion on the differences on the two comps.

 

 

 

Blue

 

 

Ammonium perchlorate........... 50%

Copper carbonate....................15%

Aluminum 325m........................10%

Saran resin................................5%

parlon........................................20%

 

 

 

 

Red

 

 

Strontium nitrate.......................50%

potassium perchlorate...............5%

Magnesium.................................13%

Parlon.........................................17%

Hexamine.....................................9%

Red gum........................................3%

Boric acid........................................3%

 

 

Edited June 29, 2010 by Cookieman

[Twotails]

Not sure on te colors/compatablility issues on those, but i have a white comp thats almost exactly like bound nitrate flash, worked very well useing 3 Micron dark Al, but i'll have to give it a go when i get my Mg coated. Personaly i like Nitrate based one becouse i know(most of the time) i can prime them with BP, and there relitivly inexpensive to make. On the other hand I have made some AP ones and like there color much better, although the whole possability of AP combining with KNO3 to create AN and wet, messy stars has set me to stay away from them unless i need a spesific color.

[Ventsi]

 

Blue

 

 

Ammonium perchlorate........... 50%

Copper carbonate....................15%

Aluminum 325m........................10%

Saran resin................................5%

parlon........................................20%

 

 

 

Cookie, I am very inclined to try this formula, do you know what Al is specifically called for? 325# can be spherical, Dark or Bright. Also, I seem to think the parlon is there mainly for binding action and fuel value, would upping the Saran a bit and using some Red Gum to bind be sufficient in anyone's opinion?

[Cookieman]

Cookie, I am very inclined to try this formula, do you know what Al is specifically called for? 325# can be spherical, Dark or Bright. Also, I seem to think the parlon is there mainly for binding action and fuel value, would upping the Saran a bit and using some Red Gum to bind be sufficient in anyone's opinion?

 

 

It calls for spherical bright, the AP go getter calls for thermalite fuse or a KP based black match which probably makes it harder to light but from what I gather burns well and gives a good vibrant colour.

[Ralph]

that red gogetter formula works nicely one thing though you shouldn't add boric acid who ever published that group of formulas must not have been all there (or is a standard sheapy pyro that just does what he thinks people have said is safe)

here is some info on the reaction

[Cookieman]

that red gogetter formula works nicely one thing though you shouldn't add boric acid who ever published that group of formulas must not have been all there (or is a standard sheapy pyro that just does what he thinks people have said is safe)

here is some info on the reaction

 

 

The red was posted on cannonfuse's website and th AP blue on Harry Gilliam's blog on skylighter.So leave out the boric acid? does the magnesium have to be treated?

[Ralph]

The red was posted on cannonfuse's website and th AP blue on Harry Gilliam's blog on skylighter.So leave out the boric acid? does the magnesium have to be treated?

 

the forumla originated from unitednuclear I believe yeah I leave out the oboric acid and no the magnesium does not need to be treated as the acetone dissolves the parlon making it safe

[Cookieman]

the forumla originated from unitednuclear I believe yeah I leave out the oboric acid and no the magnesium does not need to be treated as the acetone dissolves the parlon making it safe

 

 

Yes Ralph you are correct. BTW my last batch of Magnesium has been treated with Dichromate, will it make a difference?

[Mumbles]

qwezxc13 here uses that fast visco paper fuse to prime go-getters. Apparantly it's not nitrate based, or the parlon binding doesn't allow it to react with the AP.

 

As far as the boric acid, it needs water to react with the magnesium. It is pretty much inert in that comp.

 

If you're thinking about trying to bind the go-getters with alcohol, I don't know if that would work Ventsi. Red gum just isn't as gooey as parlon. I'd think you would either have to press them, or your components would sink and not be well suspended.

[Cookieman]

qwezxc13 here uses that fast visco paper fuse to prime go-getters. Apparantly it's not nitrate based, or the parlon binding doesn't allow it to react with the AP.

 

As far as the boric acid, it needs water to react with the magnesium. It is pretty much inert in that comp.

 

If you're thinking about trying to bind the go-getters with alcohol, I don't know if that would work Ventsi. Red gum just isn't as gooey as parlon. I'd think you would either have to press them, or your components would sink and not be well suspended.

 

 

Thanks Mumbles, as far as I know,(please correct me if i'm wrong) the parlon in this formula does 3 things. It acts as a binder with the accetone, it acts as a chlorine donor for the colour, and it protects the magnesium.

[Mumbles]

I forgot one thing. Make sure you acetone or solvents are dry. Your Mg is protected which will help. If your mix starts to foam or bubble, the batch is ruined. This is more of a problem with unprotected metals, but I'd dry it anyway just to be safe. Even with the protection of the parlon, if there is water in there, AP can still react with Mg, or maybe MgAl.

 

I store my acetone over molecular sieves, so it's always dry. I've heard that Calcium Chloride or calcium sulfate can be used, but it can complex which could disturb sensitive colors. If you dry some epsom salts in the oven for a while, that would probably be the best bet if you're worried.

[Cookieman]

I forgot one thing. Make sure you acetone or solvents are dry. Your Mg is protected which will help. If your mix starts to foam or bubble, the batch is ruined. This is more of a problem with unprotected metals, but I'd dry it anyway just to be safe. Even with the protection of the parlon, if there is water in there, AP can still react with Mg, or maybe MgAl.

 

I store my acetone over molecular sieves, so it's always dry. I've heard that Calcium Chloride or calcium sulfate can be used, but it can complex which could disturb sensitive colors. If you dry some epsom salts in the oven for a while, that would probably be the best bet if you're worried.

 

There is a method that Ned uses to get rid of the moisture from the acetone. I just bought some from ebay, its called Damprid, and you basically add it to the acetone or 90:10 acetone/xylene for the AP/Al formula in a jar and shake it gently for a few minutes letting out any pressure in between, passing it through a sieve, and storing into an airtight jar when ready to make your pancake batter. He basically says to make just enough solvent for what you will use.

[qwezxc12]

qwezxc13 here uses that fast visco paper fuse to prime go-getters. Apparantly it's not nitrate based, or the parlon binding doesn't allow it to react with the AP.

 

 

 

I looked back for earlier posts when I first tried Go-getters... the relevant posts are in the Aerial Shells thread around posts#1040 and up... except all the pictures were hosted on the old domain so they're gone now. I reattached some. The formula I settled on was:

 

50 Ammonium Perchlorate

20 Parlon

15 xCarbonate, where x is the metallic colorant of your choice

10 Aluminum (I first used 5μm spherical - very hot. I now use some -325 spherical mixed in to slow things down a bit)

5 Saran

 

The solvent is 90:10 Acetone / Xylene dried with either molecular sieves (which I use now) or Damp-Rid. The comp is mixed into a pancake consistency batter and squirted into the tubes like ketchup...Mmmmmm. As mumbles said I use KP-based black match harvested from the 'fast paper fuse' that SkyLighter and other vendors sell. There are three individual strands of BM under the paper wrap:

 

http://www.skylighter.com/images/web_pictures/gn1205.jpg

 

The attached picture of the Go-Getters is from 2007 and used a different type of fuse than that described above. Once the solvent dries, they're basically solid plastic.

 

Here's a link to the old Video. The original is in my gallery videos. This was a 4in canister shell with 9/16" x 1.5" Go-getter tubes topped with 1g or so of flash.

Edited June 30, 2010 by qwezxc12

[Cookieman]

I looked back for earlier posts when I first tried Go-getters... the relevant posts are in the Aerial Shells thread around posts#1040 and up... except all the pictures were hosted on the old domain so they're gone now. I reattached some. The formula I settled on was:

 

50 Ammonium Perchlorate

20 Parlon

15 xCarbonate, where x is the metallic colorant of your choice

10 Aluminum (I first used 5μm spherical - very hot. I now use some -325 spherical mixed in to slow things down a bit)

5 Saran

 

The solvent is 90:10 Acetone / Xylene dried with either molecular sieves (which I use now) or Damp-Rid. The comp is mixed into a pancake consistency batter and squirted into the tubes like ketchup...Mmmmmm. As mumbles said I use KP-based black match harvested from the 'fast paper fuse' that SkyLighter and other vendors sell. There are three individual strands of BM under the paper wrap:

 

http://www.skylighter.com/images/web_pictures/gn1205.jpg

 

The attached picture of the Go-Getters is from 2007 and used a different type of fuse than that described above. Once the solvent dries, they're basically solid plastic.

 

Here's a link to the old Video. The original is in my gallery videos. This was a 4in canister shell with 9/16" x 1.5" Go-getter tubes topped with 1g or so of flash.

 

qwezxc12, thanks alot I searched and found the older posts and couldn't see the pics, I thought it was my computer not displaying the pics because of my security settings. I wanted to ask you if that pink or green medium burning chinese fuse would work.

[qwezxc12]

qwezxc12, thanks alot I searched and found the older posts and couldn't see the pics, I thought it was my computer not displaying the pics because of my security settings. I wanted to ask you if that pink or green medium burning chinese fuse would work.

 

No idea... There are several opinions regarding the AP / Potassium Nitrate double displacement reaction that makes Ammonium Nitrate (and therefore a soggy mess). I think that *potentially* the use of dried solvents as well as the plasticized Parlon would prevent the aqueous reaction from taking place. There also may be less of a worry if you were making the go-getter inserts, letting the solvent evaporate in a dry environment and then immediately constructing a shell, but personally I'd be worried that moisture from pasting the shell in would migrate in and affect the inserts.

 

Go-getters are a lot of work to begin with. Then account for the time it takes to properly construct a 5in or 6in cannister shell, and weigh the risk of soggy inserts after all that work.

 

Dipping the portion of the fuse to be inserted into the Go-getter in a NC solution might help to make a non-permeable coating preventing the reaction from occurring. Hell, a thinned white glue dip would probably do the trick, as long as the fuse has a vigorous enough side spit to ensure ignition.

 

Personally, I'd either stick with a KP based Black Match and AP Go-getters or traditional black Match and the Potassium Nitrate / MgAl Go-getter composition. To each his/her own, though... Good luck with your endeavors.

[Cookieman]

No idea... There are several opinions regarding the AP / Potassium Nitrate double displacement reaction that makes Ammonium Nitrate (and therefore a soggy mess). I think that *potentially* the use of dried solvents as well as the plasticized Parlon would prevent the aqueous reaction from taking place. There also may be less of a worry if you were making the go-getter inserts, letting the solvent evaporate in a dry environment and then immediately constructing a shell, but personally I'd be worried that moisture from pasting the shell in would migrate in and affect the inserts.

 

Go-getters are a lot of work to begin with. Then account for the time it takes to properly construct a 5in or 6in cannister shell, and weigh the risk of soggy inserts after all that work.

 

Dipping the portion of the fuse to be inserted into the Go-getter in a NC solution might help to make a non-permeable coating preventing the reaction from occurring. Hell, a thinned white glue dip would probably do the trick, as long as the fuse has a vigorous enough side spit to ensure ignition.

 

Personally, I'd either stick with a KP based Black Match and AP Go-getters or traditional black Match and the Potassium Nitrate / MgAl Go-getter composition. To each his/her own, though... Good luck with your endeavors.

 

 

Thanks alot for all your help. I know these mini coloured rockets take alot of work and preparation but I think in the end their worth it. It's like sitting down at dinner waiting to carve that roast beef thats been roasting in the oven for a long time.