KNSU Smoke

[Bender222]

I figured Smoke bombs were a good place to start out and ive made a few 50g and 100g pieces. my problem is that they are more like a rocket engines than a smoke bomb producinng large jets of fame for ten seconds wrather then thick smoke for like a minute. I was sure to add 5% Baking soda in each of them. I was thinking maybe the containers had something to do with it. I tried making a big wad inside a sheet of wax paper. then I tried a paper cup, then i tried an empty soda can. I used the directions here http://www.pyroguide.com/index.php?title=Smoke_mix. i would have tried the paraffin method but I couldnt get my hands on any paraffin. I notice also when I add the potassium nitrate/baking soda to the molten sugar it becomes really thick and because i have since removed the pan from the heat source it can be a bit difficult to mix. Also what effect does caramellization have on the end result? I was wondering because if I could prevent the caramellization of the sugar by using water to disolve both the sugar and the potassim nitrate wether or not it would increase the effect. Edited September 7, 2009 by Bender222

[mike_au]

I'm about to turn in for the night so you're only going to get a short answer out of me...and that is "Find paraffin" it makes everything so much better. It is used for sealing jam jars and making candles.

 

In the absence of paraffin though, water does make it easier to mix.

[Bender222]

I got some parrafin and it does produce alot of smoke but i am having a problem keeping the hole from widening or new holes being made and making the smoke erupt into flames instead of smolder like it should. I tried 5-8 layers of aluminum foil (with electrical tape) and after a minute or so the small opening fails, I tried using an empty soda can ( used ~250 grams + wax ) it worked beautifully for a minute or so but then the mix melted holes in the side of the can and eventually allowed more oxygen to enter and flare up. I dont seem to hear much about poeple having a problem with the casing so i wonder why its such an issue for me. at the moment i am trying to find a container that is either cheap and expandable or reusable. I was thinking about the alluminum camping fuel bottles.

[mike_au]

Smoke is probably one of the safer compositions, but I would still suggest following the standard rule of "No metal casings!". It is highly unlikely that it would produce enough pressure to rupture the container, but not impossible.

 

I have always poured the molten mix into cardboard tubes, it might flare a bit when it starts but soon settles down.

[TheEskimo]

Aye, I second that. Smoke mix can burn ferociously, even with wax, with unwanted results.......

Bender, what is the comp that you are using? It sounds like yours is too hot and fast. I use the kno3+su+wax in the 60:40:30 ratio. I wrap in several layers of aluminium foil, and it always widens the hole. This is good, because the stuff is very slaggy, and needs a hole that can be widened. I have tried this in solid casings with clay nozzles, and they just burn themselves out.

[Bender222]

i am using the "legendary" mix. 60:40 kn03 to sugar with enough wax to make the mix into a paste. maybe i should measre the wax and only add 30-40g of wax. I would think that the aluminum fuel bottle without the cap would holdup well to be a canister. like i said i used a soda can and it stayed together well ntill small holes were melted into the side. the fuel bottle seems like it can withstand substantialy more pressure and heat then is required. I hear of using pvc as rocket casings as generally being bad but many poeple use it and it is fine.

[Mumbles]

That's a very unhealthy attitude. Just because it works few times for others, doesn't mean it will work every time. We want you to be safe. The hobby already has a pretty negative public perception. PVC and metal are discouraged for the same reason, the failure method. You pretty obviously are relatively new. Stick to paper casings until you actually know what you're doing.

[NightHawkInLight]

i am using the "legendary" mix. 60:40 kn03 to sugar with enough wax to make the mix into a paste. maybe i should measre the wax and only add 30-40g of wax. I would think that the aluminum fuel bottle without the cap would holdup well to be a canister. like i said i used a soda can and it stayed together well ntill small holes were melted into the side. the fuel bottle seems like it can withstand substantialy more pressure and heat then is required. I hear of using pvc as rocket casings as generally being bad but many poeple use it and it is fine.

Mumbles is correct, that is not the attitude to have. A good rule of thumb is when you read that something is dangerous one place, and safe in another, listen to the people saying it is dangerous. PVC IS dangerous to use as a rocket casing. You cannot get all your information from fireisk3wl.com. There's a lot of crap information out there. Listen to what you read here. There's a lot of experience speaking to you.

[Bender222]

ok, what abo0ut poeple with large rockets using knsu propellant? it seems equally as dangerous for them to make the rocke out of anything other than paper and yet they do.

[TheSidewinder]

Amateur and HPR (High-Power Rocketry) are horses of an entirely different color.

 

Yes, the rocketeers use metallic, phenolic, and PVC motor components.

 

But they also have rules about where and how they fire them, that go far beyond what we pyro enthusiasts use as a standard.

 

If it's a pyro rocket, PVC (or metal, or phenol) really has no place in its construction.

 

Please take the advice of those who have "been there" and know better.

 

We want everyone to stay safe.

[Bender222]

ok I understand. how would a ceramic or clay vase do? or is there nothing reusable I could use ? by the way what is the burning temperature of KnSU mixes?

[Ventsi]

Why use a metal casing??????

All I do for my smokes is break up the molten together KNSU and place it inside an old toilet paper roll and a little bit of tape.

Simple, safe, burns away and smokes like there is no tomorow. Also that way my smokes tend to burn up in just a few seconds releasing a smoke cloud big enough to fill a gym up rather than sitting there for ten minutes and puffing like an old grandpa.

The crowd awlays loves them.

 

Edit; Oh and don't use ceramic, its the same as glass. Imagine blowing up a ceramic vase on accident, if you don't get hurt by the flying shrapnel somone else probably will step on the little shards. I've been there, not something pleasant.

 

Paper!

Paper!

Paper!

Edited September 12, 2009 by Ventsi

[Bender222]

whenever I make them they take about 10 secs to fully ignite then they are good for 4-5 mins. after about 40 seconds of hick smoke was when the aluminum can started failing and it ignited and burned all the smoke up.