Coating Mg with Parlon

[Swede]

I was reading a Passfire thread about coating Mg with either linseed oil or potassium dichromate to prevent dangerous reactions within a comp, and both have significant disadvantages. Then a guy mentioned the possibility of coating Mg with parlon dissolved in MEK or similar. This struck me as an idea worthy of investigation.

 

I prepared a 1/2 gram sample of 80 mesh Mg by dissolving 0.05 grams of parlon in a couple of ml of MEK, then stirring the Mg into the dissolved parlon. The coated Mg was scooped out and spread to dry on a clean piece of paper. In the early phases of drying, the Mg clumped and was tacky, but nothing horrible to handle. After the bulk of the MEK evaporated, the clumps broke up easily, and the Mg flakes handled little differently from the untreated. Drying took maybe 15 minutes maximum.

 

To stress the coating, I added two very small samples to test tubes, added some distilled water, and then added HCl (dropwise) to both test tubes. The tube on the left has untreated Mg in it, while the tube on the right has Mg coated with parlon.

 

 

Immediately after one drop of HCl was added:

http://www.5bears.com/firew/mgcoat90.jpg

 

Within approximately 10 seconds, the first hydrogen bubbles were seen from the untreated Mg:

http://www.5bears.com/firew/mgcoat91.jpg

 

Five more drops of acid were added to each test tube. The parlon coating was breached, but very, very slightly, and the reaction was extremely slow. What happened is that the coated Mg clumped, and evolved hydrogen was trapped within the clump, and the clump floated to the top of the test tube.

http://www.5bears.com/firew/mgcoat92.jpg

 

A bit closer... you can see the Mg clump in the tube to the right.

http://www.5bears.com/firew/mgcoat93.jpg

 

What it all means - I honestly don't know. I don't have enough experience with magnesium and its incompatibilities to draw conclusions that I would be comfortable with. To say "This kicks ass, the coated Mg is 100% safe" is irresponsible. But the protection afforded by the parlon was impressive. The acid attack was an aggressive one, and the untreated sample fizzed like champagne, while the coated Mg barely evolved any gas at all. The mechanism of attack within a composition must be considered. If the comp uses acetone or MEK to bind, the possibility exists that the grinding/binding action could strip the parlon from the Mg flakes, but I cannot imagine linseed oil withstanding this any better. Potassium dichromate is time-proven, but not everyone has it, or wants to use it. This might be worthy of further investigation.

 

Can anyone suggest an aggressive comp that would be considered foolhardy or even dangerous with untreated Mg? In milligram quantities, there's little to fear, and I am willing to try different comps with this parlon-coated Mg.

[NightHawkInLight]

Can anyone suggest an aggressive comp that would be considered foolhardy or even dangerous with untreated Mg? In milligram quantities, there's little to fear, and I am willing to try different comps with this parlon-coated Mg.

Indeed I can! I would love to see the following tested:

 

Ammonium perchlorate - 70

Charcoal - 15

Sulfur - 8

Copper Sulfate - 7

Magnesium - 10

Dextrin - 5

 

It's a beautiful purple glitter when ignited as a dry mix, but it just can't be bound by any means I have available. If you're worried about a copper perchlorate formation, you might try calcium sulfate for an orange glitter. I haven't gotten so far as to test that yet myself, though soon. This composition I think meets the foolhardy+/or dangerous criteria...

 

I'm as curious as can be if it's a viable colored glitter when bound.

 

BTW - Great job documenting your testing as always. I appreciate your extra effort in showing your results.

Edited August 28, 2009 by NightHawkInLight

[Swede]

I'm willing to try, but I lack the sulfates. I'll need to pick up some copper sulfate root killer or similar. What mesh and type is the Mg in this formula?

[NightHawkInLight]

I'm willing to try, but I lack the sulfates. I'll need to pick up some copper sulfate root killer or similar. What mesh and type is the Mg in this formula?

I'm not great at judging mesh size. The Mg that I was using back when first experimenting with this was granular and like a fine sand. Each grain distinguishable from the rest with the naked eye, but just barely. Perhaps 200?

[popi1955]

nice experiment, liked it

but if u have MEK, why dont u try disolving PVC insted of parlon?? pvc is not soluble in most stuff comperd to parlon

[NightHawkInLight]

In a list of mesh sizes, 14 mesh is your basic window screen.

 

28 mesh is "beach sand".

 

I show 40 mesh particles to still be distinguishable individually by the naked eye.

 

60 mesh is akin to "fine sand".

 

Around 80 mesh is about like popcorn salt, finer than table salt.

 

200 mesh is about to the stage where there is no longer any granularity that can be discerned. 200 mesh is "Portland cement".

Smaller than 80, larger than 200. I would then say around 100. I believe particles were distinguishable only because of light glinting off them.

[TrueBluePyro]

It is realy dogy to tel what mesh it is just by looking at it, lol, but anyway, you should buy some screen mesh's, I bought these realy small ones from ebay, but I got like 12 different sizes, so it is good to grade stuff, but not great if you want to mix stuff.

[Mumbles]

If you got the Mg from Aaron Enzer, Fred Hay, or Karl Maertz, it's probably the military surplus stuff that they have a bunch of. It's -200.

[NightHawkInLight]

If you got the Mg from Aaron Enzer, Fred Hay, or Karl Maertz, it's probably the military surplus stuff that they have a bunch of. It's -200.

My latest is from Karl. I know it's -200. The stuff I had when first messing with this comp was larger. It was bought off eBay back when it was easier to come by.

[NightHawkInLight]

Any progress here Swede or has your effort been put to other use?

[TrueBluePyro]

Is there some how this can be a proven method? As the colvent can you use just straight acertone or must you use some MEK?

[Swede]

I did one further experiment, this time comparing parlon coating with dichromate-coated Mg. The attack was once again HCl. The dichromate-coated Mg was breached in a matter of 2 to 3 minutes, whereas the parlon stuff hung on as it did before. I took some pics (it's all on Passfire). Anyway, I came back the next day after having left the test tubes where they were, and the dichromate Mg was totally dissolved, but the Parlon coated Mg was still floating in the solution. It was impressive.

 

Before I try the comp, I want to experiment a bit more with ammonium perchlorate this time, rather than an HCl attack. I keep forgetting to pick up some Cu sulfate, too.

[NightHawkInLight]

I did one further experiment, this time comparing parlon coating with dichromate-coated Mg. The attack was once again HCl. The dichromate-coated Mg was breached in a matter of 2 to 3 minutes, whereas the parlon stuff hung on as it did before. I took some pics (it's all on Passfire). Anyway, I came back the next day after having left the test tubes where they were, and the dichromate Mg was totally dissolved, but the Parlon coated Mg was still floating in the solution. It was impressive.

 

Before I try the comp, I want to experiment a bit more with ammonium perchlorate this time, rather than an HCl attack. I keep forgetting to pick up some Cu sulfate, too.

Sounds good. I'm curious as to what effects the parlon will bring to a composition. I expect it may produce a rather drastic change in performance - not necessarily a bad thing.

 

When you say that the parlon coated Mg was still floating after 24 hours, it makes me suspect that the bubbles clinging on had a lot to do with shielding the Mg from liquid attack. Since it bubbled initially, there were obviously small flaws in the coating, meaning that the HCl should have eventually dissolved the Mg and left a shell of micron thin parlon. I wonder if the bubbles did not allow liquid to enter into the flaws as quickly as it would in composition, where bubbles would not be able to remain in the surface cracks. I have high hopes. We shall see.

[dagabu]

I was reading a Passfire thread about coating Mg with either linseed oil or potassium dichromate to prevent dangerous reactions within a comp, and both have significant disadvantages. Then a guy mentioned the possibility of coating Mg with parlon dissolved in MEK or similar. This struck me as an idea worthy of investigation.

 

Awwww, I feel honored!

 

[Swede]

Awwww, I feel honored!

 

 

Haha! There are a lot of guys active on both forums, and sometimes I don't make the connection. It IS a good idea. There may be other materials too that can coat Mg with something a bit less noxious than dichromate. The solvent can be expensive, though, so a way would have to be discovered to recover the bulk of it.

 

I'm thinking of spreading the Mg out evenly on a shallow pan, adding enough parlon + MEK to cover, a bit of agitation to ensure a good coating, then decanting as much excess as possible back into a container. The pan is then allowed to dry, with the clumps broken up as needed.

[dagabu]

Haha! There are a lot of guys active on both forums, and sometimes I don't make the connection. It IS a good idea. There may be other materials too that can coat Mg with something a bit less noxious than dichromate. The solvent can be expensive, though, so a way would have to be discovered to recover the bulk of it.

 

I'm thinking of spreading the Mg out evenly on a shallow pan, adding enough parlon + MEK to cover, a bit of agitation to ensure a good coating, then decanting as much excess as possible back into a container. The pan is then allowed to dry, with the clumps broken up as needed.

 

I was just kidding around, your post came WAY before I identified my problem. I do know how to coat Mg, "We used OXSILAN MG-0610 and OXSILAN MG-0611 for coating Mg on jets. Worked great! It's also $200.00 a half pint!". Its that I want to make strobe and the Mg coating is keeping me away.

[Askenaz]

I did one further experiment, this time comparing parlon coating with dichromate-coated Mg. The attack was once again HCl. The dichromate-coated Mg was breached in a matter of 2 to 3 minutes, whereas the parlon stuff hung on as it did before. I took some pics (it's all on Passfire). Anyway, I came back the next day after having left the test tubes where they were, and the dichromate Mg was totally dissolved, but the Parlon coated Mg was still floating in the solution. It was impressive.

 

Before I try the comp, I want to experiment a bit more with ammonium perchlorate this time, rather than an HCl attack. I keep forgetting to pick up some Cu sulfate, too.

thanks for the support, my English is not good, but I'm interested how much parlon must be added to a kilo of magnesium ?. I've used potassium dichromate with acetone. but I want to use parlon.

thanks for the support, my English is not good, but I'm interested how much parlon must be added to a kilo of magnesium ?. I've used potassium dichromate with acetone. but I want to use parlon.

[FlaMtnBkr]

Looks like he added 10% which would be 100g for 1000g or 1kg.

 

There is also a thread on here where someone used gilsonite to coat mg or mgal. Don't remember which but it might be worth experimenting with. I think it also left a black tinted coating so you could see how well it is coated.