stormyweathers Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 i have powdered KNO3, powdered sulfur, and blended charcoal i mixed all three ingredients in the standard 75:20:10 ratio, and milled for hours and hours. but the powder still doesn't burn quick enough to be useful for anything. is there anything fundamentally wrong with what im doing? or is is something small i can do like granulating it?
Mario1 Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Well to start off your ratio should be 75/15/10. Other than that I cant help you out. My BP sucks and I dont even have a ball mill.
Twotails Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 i have powdered KNO3, powdered sulfur, and blended charcoal i mixed all three ingredients in the standard 75:20:10 ratio, and milled for hours and hours. but the powder still doesn't burn quick enough to be useful for anything. is there anything fundamentally wrong with what im doing? or is is something small i can do like granulating it? The standerd ratio is 75/15/10, It might be a contamination issue, what grade is you KNO3, sulfur, and what charcoal are you using exactly ( I hope not briquetts, there mostly clay+crap). If thats the case, get better charcoal. ( I might be making some hardwood, and pine charcoal in the coming months, Depending on how much i make, i might offer it to the members of this board, im still not sure) I use Technical Grade KNO3 from skylighter, sulfur flour from skylighter (with a PH of 7), and Hickory/oak/white oak/red oak/pine/apple/plum/i dont know what else charcoal. I was using a mixture of all those woods,(huge firepit that i filled with tons of logs). what are you using to grind/mill it with?
Arthur Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 BP does really show benefit for reading up all the info from www or books and following the instructions carefully. Ingredients, milling, and granulating all matter! Get them all right and perfect powder drops out the other end, skip something and it's a useless black mess. Start with a prime charcoal, it really matters more than the other ingrediennts, Willow or Pine will make good fast charcoal. Read all the threads on this www about charcoal and BP.
stormyweathers Posted August 29, 2009 Author Posted August 29, 2009 that was a typo on the ratios, my badi use a 99.8% sulfur and KNO3i use wood lump charcoal too. i am going to try granulating the BP today, and post the results
pyrogeorge Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Pay attention to: 1)Not overfell the jar so to grind efficient.2)You has enough media in your jar.The best is the half of your jar filling with media.The correct ratio is 1/2 media and 1/4 composition.3)The most important is the charcoal.Making your own is better.Try with soft wood if you want fast BP. sorry for my english
Arthur Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Buy a small amount of willow or pine charcoal form a vendor regarded on here. Bad wood makes bad charcoal makes BAD BP. If it says Potassium Nitrate then if it's white it should be OK, Likewise for Sulphur there is no sulphur on the market that isn't OK. Charcoal really matters. Milli8ng and granulating really matter too.
firetech Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Bp can vary greatly depending on the type of charcoal you use, the amount of time milling, and the process by which you prepare your bp to reach the final product. Softwoods are the preferred type of charcoal. For example willow, cottonseed, and paulownia are excellent. Pine is very common too and is very satisfactory. Depending on your mill and amount of media and bp, the time it needs to grind for varies. Mill it as fine as possible. Most people have found corning to be the best method of preparing bp. However, granulating can produce bp that works fine for every purpose.
NightHawkInLight Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 You are measuring your chemicals with a scale, not by volume correct? I always check to make sure when someone is having problems. Not to self promote, but this is how I make my BP: http://grassrootsdiy.com/black_powder.htm
Mumbles Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Just a technicality but softwood does not equal soft wood. Notice the space. All the woods you mention, willow cottonwood and paulownia, are all technically hardwoods. It has to do with their reproductive techniques rather than their relative densities or hardness.
Twotails Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 If it says Potassium Nitrate then if it's white it should be OK, Likewise for Sulphur there is no sulphur on the market that isn't OK. Most Are fine in regards to potassium nitrate, but some can be slightly Acidic, whenever I Order my Nitrates, I always Check the PH. Same go's for sulfur, Not all sulfurs the same, "Flowers of sulfur" Is precipitated sulfur from an acid, it normaly is acidic to some extent. Rubber makers "sulfur flour", is rarely acidic to a degree that would cause someone much trouble. I think thats correct.
nick2354 Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 Most Are fine in regards to potassium nitrate, but some can be slightly Acidic, whenever I Order my Nitrates, I always Check the PH. Same go's for sulfur, Not all sulfurs the same, "Flowers of sulfur" Is precipitated sulfur from an acid, it normaly is acidic to some extent. Rubber makers "sulfur flour", is rarely acidic to a degree that would cause someone much trouble. I think thats correct. I dont think the acidity of the sulfur you are using will be any problem, his problem is most likely in the Charcoal. Make your own charcoal and then make some BP with it. I suggest Newspaper, since it is easy to find, cooks quickly and does produce a respectable BP.
stormyweathers Posted August 31, 2009 Author Posted August 31, 2009 granulating it increased the speed, but its still not satisfactory. and yes, im using a scale 600g, .1g digital i started milling some more charcoal [the same stuff] and then im going to try again. i have a feeling my ball mill isnt running efficiently, i have a 3lb capacity one from united nuclear with hardened lead media.however, after about 45 mins of milling mostly fine charcoal, i still have pretty big lumps. after i mill the ingredients separately this time, i will mill them together and test again. If all else fails, its time to make my own charcoal i heard of a few methods for making it, maybe someone can help me decide #1 put the wood chunks in an empty paint can with the lid on, and punch small holes to let the wood gas escape and cook in fire #2 wrap the wood chunks in aluminum foil and seal. poke smal holes to let the wood gas escape and cook in fire
Ventsi Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 You know, the stuff needs to be fairly powdered before you put it into a ball mill, run your stuff trough a kitchen collander before milling to ensure it crushes evreything correctly.
stug161 Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Have you tried to actually use the powder for anything? Before I had my mill, I used coffee grinder grade KNO3, with airfloat charcoal, and skylighter sulfur. I just mixed it by hand. If I made a line on the ground, it would pretty much just burn, not too quickly, but still pretty fast. I granulated it through a 20 mesh or so screen, and I can shoot stars out of a starmine with it. Granted it takes 70-80% of the weight of the stars to do it, but it does work. After I got my mill, I took samples every few hours, and even at 4 hours the powder burned much quicker than the green mix. How fast is the tumbler going? Again take a look at your filling specifics. Good Luck!! Robert
dagabu Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 (edited) i have powdered KNO3, powdered sulfur, and blended charcoal i mixed all three ingredients in the standard 75:20:10 ratio, and milled for hours and hours. but the powder still doesn't burn quick enough to be useful for anything. is there anything fundamentally wrong with what im doing? or is is something small i can do like granulating it? Robert, Ask 10 pyros how to make BP and you will get 11 very different answers... -Are you corning your BP?-Are you pucking your BP?-Are wetting and screening it? If you answer no, then you have (partial list) green meal, mill dust (one kind) pulverone (one kind) etc. and not BP! VERY different burning characteristics and speeds. There are way to many ways to make good BP for lift, break, rockets etc. for me to mention here. It looks like you used Cowboy Lump Charcoal, is that right? Cowboy is all hardwood, it's like Service charcoal or the stuff that Skylighter sells. It makes OK BP but not hot BP. Go to http://www.customcharcoal.com/alder-wood-lump-charcoal.html and try this. If you cant afford the $40.00 for the 20#, Ill split it with you and you will have hot BP if it is ball milled, pucked (or mixed with Red Gum and Denatured Alcohol) and corned. Edited August 31, 2009 by dagabu
KruseMissile Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 For cooking charcoal use a paint can(like u said) and just put one hole in the top. If u want try this for ur ballmill!
Arthur Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 ..................i have a feeling my ball mill isnt running efficiently, i have a 3lb capacity one from united nuclear with hardened lead media.however, after about 45 mins of milling mostly fine charcoal, i still have pretty big lumps............................ Maybe you've answered you question! Given that sort of mill 45 minutes is not much of a start, it's certainly not a milling session.Start by preparing the ingrediants so that they pass through a kitchen sieve (get your own!) Then weigh out the amounts needed for a small batch. Put them in the mill jar they should just cover the media, then set the mill going for two hour sessions, after each session take a gram or two as a test sample. With prime charcoal i'd expect you to have slow mill powder after 4 hours, getting faster to 8 hours, then not showing much speed increase to 24 hours in the mill. With BBQ lumpwood charcoal you will never get good BP. Once you have good mill powder it needs granulating either by pressing and corning, or by ricing with dextrin and a screen or cheese grater! Then you dry it thoroughly and test it and bottle it and store it in conformance with your licence and local laws.
stormyweathers Posted August 31, 2009 Author Posted August 31, 2009 thanks for the amount of response guys, i feel like ill be able to improve on the methods this weekend. i wasnt corning, or pucking the powder. So right off the bat i was messing up. I purchased some decent wood from a hardware store, and ill cook the charcoal myself.[i may go 50/50 with you on some charcoal in the future, like you mentioned] that ball mill mod is a definite must, i can only get about 55rpm currently [im positive i got ripped off]. also, pre-screening my materials should definitely help. -i appreciate the help
NightHawkInLight Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 There's a big part of your problem. 55 rpm is not nearly fast enough. Wrap the rollers in some tape to enlarge the diameter and it will increase your rpm.
Seymour Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 With BBQ lumpwood charcoal you will never get good BP. I disagree with that. By definition lumpwood could be from any tree, it is just not processed further after being cooked. Certainly most lumpwood will be from less suitable species, but there is no reason why they occasionally would not use BP suitable coals.
FrankRizzo Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 How can I find out the RPM of my rock tumbler? Put a piece of masking tape on the jar, and count the number of times it rotates in 1min.
Mario1 Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 (edited) Ok I got about 55 RPM. Is that good? If not how do I amp it up a little edit: Nvm just noticed my questions been answered here already. So I put electrical tape or duck tape on the whole can? Edited September 1, 2009 by Mario1
Mumbles Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 Close, but not quite. You wrap it on the driven shaft. Wrapping the jar will make it turn slower.
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