popi1955 Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 well, since in israel there are no pyro shops, u have to get what u want the hard wayand since i cant get my hands on pvc powder, i am looking for replacements, iv been looking in some sites and found out that many pesticides are compounds that contain chlorine \ fluorine \ brominecompounds like chlorfluazuron, chlorthal dimethyl, chlorpyrifos, pentachloronitrobenzene, chlorphenapyr and chlorothalonil two compounds attracted my attention, pentachloronitrobenzene and chlorothalonilsadly i cannot use pentachloronitrobenzene since it reacts with water and forming nitrous acid (can cause auto ignition), it is also react with hydrogen the secound compound, chlorothalonil, is not reacting with water (hipi!) and it contains 53.33% chlorine (pvc is 56), and i found out that the compund is not so lethal (LD50 is 10 grams for 1 kilo of the body) well, than i need to eat more than 500 grams to kill myselfi found a place thats sell this compound, do u think it will work?
Ralph Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 copper oxyxhloride is used as a treatment for trees i know that we spray it on their leaves to prevent a disease called curl leaf what country do you live in because i know that my pyro supplier (will ship parlon and most non hazardus things to any one)
Swede Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 copper oxyxhloride is used as a treatment for trees i know that we spray it on their leaves to prevent a disease called curl leaf what country do you live in because i know that my pyro supplier (will ship parlon and most non hazardus things to any one) I was thinking the same thing. PVC powder and Parlon are both as innocent a chemical as can be found. I would be shocked if either was nipped by customs. I guess the problem is finding someone willing to ship, and not drawing attention to yourself, which sometimes happens with shipments of this sort. As for the dangers of your substitutes, the problem is that the combustion of these chemicals can often alter them in ways that are hard to predict, and also there is the risk of reaction during the creation of the compositions. My gut feel is "bad idea", but that didn't stop me from experimenting with things like polyurethane glue and other interesting things. There has been some experimentation with "Sculpey" clay (which is PVC-based) and other oven-hardenable clays which can be both fuel and chlorine donor.
popi1955 Posted August 25, 2009 Author Posted August 25, 2009 isent sculpey a "fimo"?and the problem about getting pvc \ parlon from ebay is that they dont ship to israel, i have found all users that sell pvc \ parlon and i even send tham a message "can u ship to israel?"all of them replyed negativlyparlon u cant find in israel for sure, most of his use is in pyroi will give a try to the scupey thingand about that its hard to predict what reactions will the chemicals have, i thought about it, and thats why im asking, i cant be sure that it dosent explode in my face
Arthur Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) I'd be very surprised if Israel doesn't have a plastics industry! Whereever it does there will be vendors of PVC in bulk (I used to work in a UK factory that had PVC delivered by tanker truck!) You really should be able to look round the plastics supplies companies for PVC. Get a 25kilo sample. A search engine in your country is the best place to look! Emulsion PVC or Suspension PVC would be good search terms. Inbound customs may be a limiting feature for you with small packets of white powders. Anything to do with misusing fungicides or pesticides would be a bad plan. Tou could kill the local vegetation too easily or poison animals or fish, or your self or friends and family. Edited August 25, 2009 by Arthur
Ralph Posted August 25, 2009 Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) pm me and i will tell you a supplier who sells parlon very cheaply and will post it to you he also sells lots of other stuff that can be posted such as tubes colourant carbonates ect. Edited August 25, 2009 by Ralph
popi1955 Posted August 27, 2009 Author Posted August 27, 2009 there are alot of stores in the plastic industry, and they are all dumbsi called about 5-7 plastics stores (raw materials) and no one had pvc powder, some of them dident even understand me (pvc powder?? whats that?)
mike_au Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 there are alot of stores in the plastic industry, and they are all dumbsi called about 5-7 plastics stores (raw materials) and no one had pvc powder, some of them dident even understand me (pvc powder?? whats that?) PVC is one of the more common plastics that you can use, but it isn't the only one. Try asking around for something that is suitable for use in a high chlorine environment and let them tell you what they have available. Check the MSDSs to look for a high chlorine content. There is the (rather expensive) option of using PVC glue. There was also some discussion a while back about the glue used in swimming pool repair kits, I don't remember what the conclusion was but it might be worth searching for.
Arthur Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 The plastics industry is polarised! PVC users vs other plastics users! There WILL be a supplier of pvc in Israel, have you spoken to a college near you -look for one with a polymer technology course and ask them where they get their PVC from because they will use small amounts, just like you want!
GalFisk Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 (edited) Doesn't our friendly suppliers in Poland, http://keten.com.pl and http://www.czort.cba.pl/cennikeng.htm ship to Israel? They don't seem too hung up on shipping regulations...Note that "PVC" is called "PCV" in Polish.Edit: ok Ralph, my mistake. Edited August 28, 2009 by GalFisk
Ralph Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 no pvc in polish is pvc the writer of the website (not the owner) isnt well how to put it um he gets things wrong like he calls lead nitrate plumbum nitrate when in polish it sounds nothing like that
Mumbles Posted August 28, 2009 Posted August 28, 2009 I'll try to look up his e-mail address, but there is definitely a supplier of PVC in israel. I seem to remember someone who got a 25kg bag of PVC there once.
popi1955 Posted September 2, 2009 Author Posted September 2, 2009 yea, someone did got 25 killos, but it was a long time ago, befor i started pyroi not in the mood to buy 25 K of pvc, buy my problem as been solved when i found out one of the chemical supplier sells 1L thf in a realy realy low price
drtoivowillmann Posted September 2, 2009 Posted September 2, 2009 well, since in israel there are no pyro shops, u have to get what u want the hard wayand since i cant get my hands on pvc powder, i am looking for replacements, iv been looking in some sites and found out that many pesticides are compounds that contain chlorine \ fluorine \ brominecompounds like chlorfluazuron, chlorthal dimethyl, chlorpyrifos, pentachloronitrobenzene, chlorphenapyr and chlorothalonil two compounds attracted my attention, pentachloronitrobenzene and chlorothalonilsadly i cannot use pentachloronitrobenzene since it reacts with water and forming nitrous acid (can cause auto ignition), it is also react with hydrogen the secound compound, chlorothalonil, is not reacting with water (hipi!) and it contains 53.33% chlorine (pvc is 56), and i found out that the compund is not so lethal (LD50 is 10 grams for 1 kilo of the body) well, than i need to eat more than 500 grams to kill myselfi found a place thats sell this compound, do u think it will work? Don't be silly ! As a Ph.D in Chemistry I tell you: replace PVC by other highly polymeric chlorine stuff !The best is c-PVC, post-chlorated PVC resin, used to make electric isolation plastics. The most famousis the LUCALOR RB 1167 S from the multinational "Elf"-group. All, whatever is highly polymeric and also cannot be dregadated in the stomach nor the intestine, does not enter our metabolism and is not toxic any longer. In all formulas I find, I replace Lindane (benzene hexachloride) by Lucalor. Generally worksafter some slight modifications in the formulas. Greetings from Brazil: Toivo
Swede Posted September 4, 2009 Posted September 4, 2009 Don't be silly ! As a Ph.D in Chemistry I tell you: replace PVC by other highly polymeric chlorine stuff !The best is c-PVC, post-chlorated PVC resin, used to make electric isolation plastics. The most famousis the LUCALOR RB 1167 S from the multinational "Elf"-group. All, whatever is highly polymeric and also cannot be dregadated in the stomach nor the intestine, does not enter our metabolism and is not toxic any longer. In all formulas I find, I replace Lindane (benzene hexachloride) by Lucalor. Generally worksafter some slight modifications in the formulas. Greetings from Brazil: Toivo Hello Toivo and welcome! How do you incorporate the solid CPVC into a composition? Mechanical, or by solvents? What % of the plastic is filler or some other non-active component?
drtoivowillmann Posted September 8, 2009 Posted September 8, 2009 Hello Toivo and welcome! How do you incorporate the solid CPVC into a composition? Mechanical, or by solvents? What % of the plastic is filler or some other non-active component? Dear colleague: The CPVC must be pure. It is sold as a coarse powder. Micronize it in a ball mill or in a toubillon mill.The chlorine content is 67,5 %. Calculate your formulas stochiometrically. As the atom wheight of Chlorine = 35,5 g,put its Lucalor equivalent = 53 g. Note: the chlorine content of Lindane (theoretical)is 73 %. So Lucalor is quite close to it but non-toxic. Greetings Toivo
Swede Posted September 10, 2009 Posted September 10, 2009 OK, I must have misread your post, and somehow I concluded that you were incorporating PVC pipe in some fashion.
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