Rooster Posted January 21, 2006 Posted January 21, 2006 Bliindreeper: I have noticed that many people say how great there stars are and all the cool colour they can get. But what about the people who have no access to (per)chlorates, PVC donors, most metals, antimony compounds, exotic oxidizers. We are limited to KNO3 as our oxidzer. Or maybe KMnO4 but who wants to use that?I have developed this forumula which seems to go fine without a prime but it wouldn't go bad if it had a thin BP prime. It rains with long lasting white sparks. Not the best but it is better than the old charcoal star (not saying chrysanthemum stars arn't nice ) KNO3 56Sulfur - 7.5Charcoal - 11.5Dextrin - 5Aluminium - 20 In short it is 75g meal powder with 5g dextrine and 20g Aluminium powder. The aluminium I use is -325 mesh spherical. I take the meal out of the mill and screen in the dextrin and aluminium. I would like to hear any other colours you have developed or know of. I have also found replacing the Al in that composition with zinc dust makes a nice green. Havn't made any stars witht he Zn just 10g piles of composition. I think it may be more than 20 parts zinc but I will try it out! I have made green, orange and white stars, I would like to expand my array of colours as most non-pyro-supplier-accesible-pyros do. I was after a blue which is shooting for the moon. Or maybe not, copper oxide (black) is very easily prepared with NaOH and copper sulfate, both common no-exotic chems. Mumbles has a nice page on the topic http://www.angelfire.com/empire/megapyro6/Chemistry/CuO.html Also most blue comps require red gum which aparently can be replaced with shellac in most compositions, or so I have heard. Lets assume it can. BTW shellac can be bought in hardware stores as flakes for a few dollars so that is easily accesible. With the blue colouring agent, CuO, KNO3 as our oxidzer and good ol' shellac we may be able to make something with a blue colour to it.A forum project perhaps? Well let me know what you think, or if you have any suggestions to the mix/starting point to work from. Maybe some metal powders will have to be added but you can make aluminium powder with a blender as blackhawk has brought to attention of the forum. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ frogfot: That is a very good idea. Though may I mention that here in Sweden shellac is same price as red gum (I'm on the edge to by 1,5 kg red gum). It would be great to hear about a substitute for this fuel binder. I read Crazy Swedes post on old forum about phenolic resins, any idea of a cheap source. Phenole + formaldehyde method seems to be promicing... I have experimented with chlorate stars (on ground).12p KClO34p CaCO34p dextrineThis thing gives a weak pink color. That is the closest thing to a colored comp I could get. Still dunno what prime this should use.. EDIT:Oh, heres a very interesting file on phenolic resins:http://polymers.msel.nist.gov/uploads/lin-gibson0403.pdfPreparation of Novolac (resin) is mentioned:formaldehyde/phenole ratio used is 0,7-0,85catalyst is oxalic acid, 1-6 weight % ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hellworm: Just a random tip for those who test stars on the ground because they don't have a stargun. I test my stars in the air with a pair of foreceps. Foreceps are good because you have better control than with plires. Grab the star lightly with the foreceps, light it, and throw it high. It works quite well to see how the star looks like when it's moving. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mumbles: This is the first time I've ever exceeded my bandwith. YAY, lol. Here a bit of a late christmas present, but the site should have some more salts. http://www.angelfire.com/empire/megapyro6/...stry/Synth.html Its no where near done, but the info is ammasing. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ nitric63: I've put thought into this type of thing before and thought of one interesting idea for improvised star formulas that I might test soon. This is to use sucralose(non-calorie sweetener) for makings stars. It is pretty much sugar that has had some OH's replaced with Cl's. I'm hoping it can serve as both a fuel and chlorine donor. Also considering sugar and sucralose also burn without two strong of a natural yellow/orange flame color like charcoal that that might help allow the salt's color to show better. I still don't have any coloring agents(well I can make copper carbonate and CuO I suppose). Still I think it will require chlorates as an oxidizer considering I've never heard of a blue comp that didn't use chlorates or perchlorates. Well at least chlorates can be manufactured by various methods. Oh, btw. I was a123x on the old forum. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hellworm: Where did you get the sucralose, and what is it sold as? I am in need of chlorine donors. I have the Perch and Barium Nitrate. I might make some nice green flares or torches. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blackhawk: I may try to make some blue CuO stars with KMnO4 as ox, perhaps using Al as a fuel. About chlorine donors I powdered some PVC pipe which may work, but i also have CaCl that could work, it is unfortunately horribly hydroscopic so it may be a little tricky. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ nitric63: I said sucralose is a non-calorie sweetener. In other words a sugar substitute. You ought to be able to get it at a super market. Whether it will actually work as a chlorine donor I'm unsure but it's worth a try. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mumbles: Splenda is what you want. Sucralose is a sucrose molecule with 4 hydroxyl groups replaced with a chlorine atom. I don't know the exact geometry, but I'd be it either goes 1,2,3,4 chlorosucrose, or 1,3,5,7 chlorosucrose. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Crazy_Swede: Nitric63,The sugar substitute with some added chlorine will most certainly not work as a chlorine donor. To be effective, a chlorine donor should contain at least 40 percent chlorine by weight! Blackhawk,You can’t add any calcium or sodium compound to a blue, green or red composition. It will totally ruin the colour! The exception is when you want to create some hue of yellow or orange. Besides, hygroscopic compounds have no place in pyrotechnics! Blindreeper,You ask what to do if you don’t have chlorates/perchlorates or chlorine donors. Well, my advice is to wait with the coloured effects until you have the right materials! While you wait, you can spend some real quality time exploring the truly amazing world of glitter effects! During my amateur years, I tried over 100 different glitter formulas to optimise the effect with the chemicals I had at hand at the time. Below, I describe one of the best that didn’t contain any strange materials (the formula adds to 110 weight percent): 51 KNO310 Ba(NO3)212 Charcoal (passed through 80-mesh sieve)10 Atomised Al (not too fine)8 S8 Sb2S3 (antimony trisulphide)6 Fe2O3 (red iron oxide)5 Dextrin I moistened the composition in plastic bags, using about 10 additional percent of an ethanol/water solution (20% ethanol) that was saturated with boric acid to prevent corrosion of the aluminium. A hydraulic press was used to press 23 mm comets in a brass tool. Friends of mine have rolled this composition, using small granules of pasta as seeds, to make round stars with great success. When working as intended, the effect is a wonderful, long and thick tail of delayed white flashes. The star or comet must be shot or thrown. When burned on the ground, you will most of the times only end up with a big blob of dross. But, very cool glitter fountains can also be made if the slightly moistened composition is rammed in a tube on a spindle! It can be tricky to get it right! Some tips that might help you: The formula has to be adjusted to the specific materials you use. Especially the type of aluminium will alter the effect. Try different levels of charcoal as an initial optimising step. If you don’t have Sb2S3, try to raise the sulphur level up to 12-16 percent and balance with KNO3. If you don’t have Fe2O3, other delay additives can be used; for example different carbonates, but then at different levels. Don’t look upon this or any other formula as a rule! Read it as a suggestion and play around with all levels. Also remember that even small variations can bring about great changes. (I wouldn’t recommend going below 5 percent of dextrin though, since the star or comet would become too brittle!) A simpler way of experiencing the glitter effect is to start with your home made black powder. Add 10 additional percent of your Al powder and 6 percent dextrin. To this base mix, add sulphur in small increments until the effect starts to show when a lit star is thrown. If nothing happens, also add some charcoal to the base mix and try again. Finally, I would like to stress that a wet mixing is very important for achieving the right effect! Therefore, it's most important to use boric acid to prevent heat formation from the corrosion of the aluminium. Otherwise, you will risk spontaneous ignition! Good luck! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dan: Lol that's the exact way I made silver glitter stars. I just added Al to bp and kept testing. I have a video of them firing. I just took some brown paper and put some BP and Al stars in and wrapped it up with some masking tape to make it. I also added some crackling stars from a crappy firework I had. Here's the link http://www.geocities.com/hvpbgg/StarMinehorizontal.mpg ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ nitric63: It's true that it is low on chlorine. However since I was intending to use it as both a fuel and chlorine donor there will be able to quite a bit more of it in the comp than what non-fuel chlorine donors are so that it will work. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: Crazy swede, the point of this is not to be like the rest and just wait until we get things to make stars its to imporvise. I know In Australia no one is going to pay $150 for 500g of KClO4. There are no pyro suppliers what so ever. Thats why I made this thread ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blackhawk: Yes that is a big problem with Aus, there are plenty of chemical suppliers but they are for labs or industry and as such only have very high grade chemicals at very high grade prices. Probably the best thing for stars that is easily available and cheap is KNO3 but even that takes a little searching, unless you are a lucky bastard like Blindreeper Crazy Swede: I never said I was going to add Ca or Na compounds, I thought that the CaCl might be good for chlorine donation but it is just too hydroscopic. However would the PVC powder I have work? I know PVC is a commonly used chlorine donor but I don't know in what form, as a powdered plastic or perhaps something else. I was also thinking of using Ca or Na hypochlorites(sp) as the donor/oxidiser but they too are hydroscopic, although not nearly to the extent of the CaCl. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: I offered to give you some of it blackhawk I will slap some fake "Hydroponic Nutrient - Potassium Nitrate (Prills)" on the front for you ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blackhawk: That may be an option Blindreeper, don't give it, sell it I don't mind paying for it, it is a crapload better than 25g KMnO4 bottles for $5 each! I'll consult my friend, as it would likely reside in his house anyway We'll talk on msn sometime. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Crazy_Swede: Blackhawk,PVC is usually added as a dry powder. The problem with grinding down PVC pipe is that the particles will be quite coarse and also, you have no control over what kinds of fillers and softeners the manufacturer has added. If some of the additives contain sodium or calcium, the PVC powder will be totally useless for producing coloured flames! By the way, if you’re aware of that you shouldn’t add calcium or sodium compounds to colour compositions, why are you then discussing calcium chloride (CaCl2*6H2O) and hypochlorites of calcium and sodium in this thread? Blindreeper,Well, it’s very difficult to make multicoloured stars without the proper ingredients, no matter how much you improvise! If chlorates or perchlorates are the problem, Clive Jennings-White wrote an article in Pyrotechnica XV about using only nitrates to make different colours. Here are some examples: RED 70 Strontium Nitrate10 Hand Made Meal Powder10 Sulphur5 Shellac5 PVC GREEN 80 Barium Nitrate10 Sulphur10 PVC BLUE 50 Guanidine Nitrate20 Parlon15 Copper (passing 200 mesh)15 Magnesium (passing 50 mesh)(This composition is surprisingly cool burning despite its high metal content. This is because the smouldering burning behaviour of the guanidine nitrate.) With only potassium nitrate available as an oxidizer, it will be almost impossible to make other colours than dim purple, yellow, orange, red, very dim blue and yellowish green. I can't see why it would be worth the effort to make ugly stars when there are other effects to explore and master, like glitter, flitter and strobe. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ frogfot: Crazy Swede, what is the main things a pyro fuel should have? I mean, what makes it usable in colored compositions? Btw, powdered PVC would be probably worth to by, only 30$/1,5 kg +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rooster Posted January 21, 2006 Author Posted January 21, 2006 Crazy_Swede: Frogfot,It's hard to give a short and general answer to your question, but I will try! First of all, the most important thing is that the fuel is essentially free from sodium and/or calcium contaminants. Otherwise, your blues will get whitish, your greens yellowish and your reds orange. Similar defects can also be the result if your oxidiser/fuel-ratio is wrong. Too much fuel will generate soot that will disturb the colour of the flame. Too little fuel will create an oxidising flame that will destroy the colour emitting species (the excited radicals of CuCl, BaCl and SrCl) in the flame and thus ruin the colour. Usually, a slight oxygen negative flame (slight excess of fuel) is best for most applications. Second, almost any substance that can be readily oxidised without leaving too much slag is a potential fuel for pyrotechnic compositions. When making stars however, you usually want a reasonably high burning speed, which limits the list of effective fuels to choose from. If we skip antimony, boron, silicon and metal powders for now, since many of you seem to have trouble getting them, we are left with organic substances and sulphur. Sulphur is an excellent fuel but often has the disadvantage to create too much slag if used at levels above 10%. Charcoal is a natural product and will therefore contain some Na and Ca. Since it’s also difficult to get a complete oxidation of it in the flame, orange sparks and incandescent particles will disturb the colour. But, since the material is so reactive, it can be effective to add small amounts, 2-5%, to speed up slow burning colour composition. Different sugars, starches and gums can be used as primary or secondary fuels, but they tend to burn slow. The best organic fuels known today are shellac, red gum and synthetic phenolic resins. The reason for this is that they all contain lots of phenolic structures which give them perfect burning characteristics: clean burning, relatively high burning speed and quite high flame temperature. Finally, it’s often effective to use more than one fuel. For example, a little charcoal can increase the burning speed and help the star to keep lit at high speeds of travel, sulphur will increase the flame temperature and reactivity, hexamine and other high nitrogen compounds will cool and expand the flame envelope. Keep on experimenting! Edit: What's up with the glow feature? I had to change it because it was suddenly impossible to read! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ frogfot: Cool, and I used to think it was something "magical" about those trees in Australia that produce red gum Sounds like this will take alot of experimintation. As soon as I get PVC powder, gonna start out with sugar/S as fuel. It would be also worth to check out all products in paintstore again ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Andyboy: I am definatly going to the paintstore in town tomorrow, shellac and lots of other goodies I am going to bring a notepad so i can make a little list of what they have since i always forget what to buy. Good to write it up so i don't have to go all the way because i thought they would have this or that aswell +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: Just a thing I was doing yesterday, shellac flakes become a very fine light orange powder when put in a coffee mill for about 1 minute. Don't bother trying to grind it by hand it is hard and long work. I am working on a yellow star which used KNO3, Shellac, S and sodium (bi)carbonate. I just need to fiddle with the ratios for a bit. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: Blindreeper, as you have a ball mill also, can you try ball-milling the flake shellac? I also have flake shellac, but not yet any ball-mill. The reason is that I have read that flake shellac is hard to grind down to "powder"(i assume finer than 200 mesh or something). Some also say the flakes have added wax, which would stick like hell in a ball-mill. Also after testing the comp, will you tell us the results? Its good with nice-looking non-perchlorate formulas, as it hard for many, and also more expensive. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: Of course I will tell you the comp! I am not that mean I am waiting for my CuCO3 to dry right now because its raining it will take a while I tried with zinc to get a blue but it turned out green as always. I don't think CuCO3 will go blue for some reason. I want either blue or purple with KNO3 as the oxidizer. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ApprenticeChemist: Ive only done a few different stars so far. The only one that I can take credit for that I didn't get from somewhere else is my KNO3/Mg ones. All it basicly is is just KNO3/Mg 40/60 flash with a binder added, I use guar gum since its what I got for now. This makes brilliant white stars. I test my stars in a home made star gun thing that I call my star shooter, all it is really is a roman candle without the sand, wood and what not and it only shoots one star. Im going to be trying some new stars out tommorow with CuSO4/PVC/KNO3, and KNO3/S/Al hopefully the CuSO4 will give me a good bluish green. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blackhawk: Ahh don't you mean KNO3/Mg in tha ratio 60:40, I would think 40:60 would simply be too oxygen defficient especially when bound, unless a large percent of the Mg was afterburning to give a tail. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Crazy_Swede: AprenticeChemist,You will also have to add some fuel to your experimental CuSO4/PVC/KNO3 mixture, because PVC is not an effective fuel by itself. Especially not in low temperature compositions! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ i.k: Try this: 70%-BP15%-Fe(dust powder)15%-Al(small flakes) it makes a nice white and red/orange sparks trail +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ApprenticeChemist: Actually black hawk it works great theres no tail its just like a star. Your supposed to use more Mg the KNO3, its the same with Al your supposed to use a 60/40 Al/KNO3 mix. The Mg mix is an awesome FP and 1gram will blind you for like half a minitue when ignited in the open. Thanks crazy_swede I was planing on trying a few different compositions I was thinking about adding some charcoal, Meal Powder, Sulphur. Not all at once in different compositions. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blackhawk: Yes flash powders are usually geared to afterburn a lot of metal in the air, that is what gives such an intense flash. I usually use most of my salutes in the day time, so I tend to use much higher oxidiser ratios so that a majority of the fuel is consumed inside the case with the idea being to get the most power and noise out of the fuel (more energy released while still confined). The stoich ratio for KMnO4/Mg is pretty close to 70:30 (to be left with oxide products) Although I usually bring it down to 60:40 (ox/fuel) so the fuel particles are not so spread out by the oxidiser. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ DavidThePyro: I posted this earlier but I guess I accidently deleted it when I was trying to edit it: "Couple things I have heard PVC pipe contains fillers that wash out color in compositions. I am not sure if it's true and I don't remember where I heard it but I do remember that it seemed like a reliable source. As for testing stars, I got an old spoon and soldered a handle under the bowl part of it, and made a catapult out of it with some rubber bands. It has a short, very quick throw which sends the star almost straight up, but the base is adjustable so it can aim any direction. Id get a pic, but I quit pyro for awhile and have no idea where it went. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jsmooth744: Wouldnt the KMNO4 act like a flash powder? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blackhawk: Uhhhh, what KMnO4, if you mean when I was talking about KMnO4/Mg further up, that is the damn point of the comp... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mumbles: I believe the KMnO4 would act as the oxidiser. This is really the only thing I've seen it used for besides making pretty colors. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rooster Posted January 21, 2006 Author Posted January 21, 2006 Nesler: This is a pretty bug "duh," guys. KMnO4 (Potassium Permanganate) is an extremely powerful oxidizer, and when used in conjunction with Al (or Mg if you're feeling nuts), it gets REALLY unfriendly. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blackhawk: Well obviously, I predominately use KMnO4/Mg mixes, which are sensetive but manegable. I have never been able to light my KMnO4/Al flash, but I'm sure it would work with a better grade Al. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Andyboy: My first experiments was with Kmno4/Al/Sulphur. You can light it with a match or lighter and it is quite ferrocious (sp). I think i used something like 70/20/10 ratios, not sure though, try adding some sulphur and i think you can make it work. By the way, the al was homemade in my blender. I have a movie of it, it's the APvsFlash. Looks great because of the larger al-flakes in it. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blackhawk: Yes I have had KMnO4/Al/S work but I am saying I have never had KMnO4/Al work (no S). ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jsmooth744: Here are some simple star comps.Most of the chemicals can be found at www.pyrohobby.com (Blue Stars)Potassium Perchlorate 63Copper Oxide Black 13Parlon 14Red Gum 10 (White Stars) Potassium Nitrate 62Antimony Trisulfide 17Sulfur 17Dextrin 4 (Red Stars)Potassium Nitrate 40Strontium Nitrate 30Charcoal 5Sulfur 10Dextrin 5 ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dan: Does anyone know if parlon can be substituted with PVC? ++++++++++++++++++++++++ DavidThePyro: Yes, but PVC is slightly weaker of a chlorine donor so you might want to add a bit more PVC than you would parlon. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: Jsmooth744: Have you tried the red formula? I don't think you have. It will not be red at all unless you use magic or something. I have never seen a GOOD red formula using ONLY nitrate oxidisers, in fact I think I have seen one at all. It also lacks a chlorine donor. Sr alone will not make a good red colour, but rather a orangeish colour. The blue and white seems okay to me, though I havent tried them. If YOU haven't tried the compositions you are posting here, why post them? They were not anything special, except the red one(that I believe doesn't work). And just posting recipes you find will make a long and useless thread. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Jsmooth744: Ok dont believe me... go to the pfp database and click on stars...come.to/pfp/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hellworm: Did you try it? I have tried several green star compostitions out of the PFP that contained Barium Nitrate, but no chlorine donors. They did not work.I have a hard time believing that your red comp works, too. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dan: My green stars came out yellow....I used pvc, barium nitrate redgum and Potassium perchlorate. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Frkonaleash1010: rabid general achieved a brilliant green star mine using Ba(NO3)2and Zn. I believe he said he used a 50/50 ratio with 2parts dextrin adde ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hellworm: This is a silver star mix that I have been messing around with in the last few days. It started when I tried to make the Sparkler Star from the PFP. That comp did not burn because my Al is too coarse. I added Zn/S mix and it burned, leaving Zinc oxide residue. Potassium Perchlorate ---------> 6 partsAl(Coarse) --------------------> 3 partsZinc/Sulfur mix 67/33 ---------> 5-6 partsDextrin -----------------------> +5% The effect is a very bright white/green flame with blue/white sparks. The colour of the flame will be effected by how much Zn/S mix that you add. The more, the greener. (To an extent)The Al is very coarse, it was ground off of a sheet of Aluminum with a Dremmel tool. It takes the form of very thin needles that are 1mm long and the thickness of a hair.(On avarage)I would recomend making either pumped or rolled stars with this mix. The needles of Aluminum really hinder making neat cut stars.Also, these stars are quite crumbly when made by cutting. I am guessing that this condition would be somewhat corrected be making rolled stars. I will have to find out.I added Ba(NO3)2, thinking that it might make the star even brighter. It did not burn at all after that. It was most likely over-oxidized, and requires more experimentation. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Crazy_Swede: Jsmooth744, Rooster and Hellworm,Compositions designed to produce red flames actually CAN work if you're not too picky about the colour depth and intensity! For example, a nice bengal illumination of reddish orange colour can be made with just shellac and strontium nitrate. The ingredients, 2:10, are mixed and carefully melted in a pan, after cooling the mixture is crushed and burned in heaps on metal plates. The reason for this is the emission at 659, 671 and 682 nm from the strontium monohydroxide molecule (SrOH). Trying similar composition with barium nitrate will not be as effective, even though the BaOH molecule emits at 513 nm, because of the disturbing effect from the continuous radiation (white light) from the barium oxide molecule (BaO). When it comes to blue flames based on copper but without chlorine or other halide donors, those will NEVER work since the copper monohydroxide (CuOH) has its peaks of emission at 533 and 546 nm respectively, which lies in the yellowish green section, and copper oxide (CuO) emits in the reddish part of the visible spectrum. I really recommend everyone interested to read “Color values and Spectra of the Principal Emitters in Colored Flames” in Journal of Pyrotechnics No. 18, by W. Meyerriecks and K.L. Kosanke. The article summarises most of the previous work and compares the old data to new and refined measurements of spectral emissions from coloured flames. Finally, I don't think the PFP database is a realiable source of information. I've seen a lot of crap in there! +++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: "Finally, I don't think the PFP database is a realiable source of information. I've seen a lot of crap in there!" I have also seen a lot of crap there. I LOVE the composition database at passfire.com, though. What happened to that group signup? You can often read info about the compositions, who made them, how they look, how the comps are made, info on the compsitions history, and more. Also a nifty calculator thing. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Nesler: I emailed the admin at passfire a week or so ago. but never heard anything back. Could a passfire member drop him a line? Maybe he'd pay more attention to you. Scratch that, got a reply this evening. He said no, due to the fact that his profit margin is very small, which I can totally understand. I kinda felt like an ass for asking. He said maybe, if the number of subscribers was very large, but he said that 5-10 (a number I quoted) was too small. I'll subscribe sooner or later, anyways. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: Guys whats the matter? I really thought the group signup thing was a bit cheap. Pay 40$? Just cut down on the chips-eating for a while. You probably can afford it, it's just a matter of priorities. These bucks will be well spent, I can tell you. I seriously want to donate him some money. Kyle is working his ass off, and the result is awesome! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _Po_: I'm trying to get copper sulfate to work. If I put a little pile of it on a piece of foil then put a few drops of metho on it and light it it burns with a green/blue flame. When I mix it with BP it doesn't do anything except maybe stop it burning. I'm trying to think of a way to mix it with a flame producing substance instead of BP which doesn't really burn with a flame. I have no idea wether this will work or not. I don't know much about chemistry. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hellworm: How much Copper Sulfate do you have? I would turn it into Copper Carbonate. The procedure is here. http://www.geocities.com/frogfot/synthesis.htmlI have made Copper Carbonate a few days ago, and plan on making some blue stars with it.Don't forget chlorine donors to get a good colour. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mumbles: "I'm trying to think of a way to mix it with a flame producing substance instead of BP which doesn't really burn with a flame. I have no idea wether this will work or not. I don't know much about chemistry." That makes absolutly no sense. It's like saying you want a bubble machine that doesn't make bubbles. You might want to checkout the ghost flame article on skylighter. It burns with a flame, but kinda invisibly. The Boric Acid one looks quite cool. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rooster Posted January 21, 2006 Author Posted January 21, 2006 _Po_: Thanks, Worm, I'll probably do that.As for Mumbles, I know. It was late when I wrote that and I couldn't really explain it which probably had something to do with it never making sense in the first place. I'm only 14 so you can't really expect too much. I'll check out the skylighter site now. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hellworm: I also agree that age doesn't mean much. I mean, if you were 7 or something, but yeah.When I was 14, I was a hopeless kewl. No. I was a pre-kewl. Back then if someone told be I would be making fireworks now I would never have believed them.Even now, people that are several years yougner than me seem to have much more knowledge. As for the Copper Carbonate, one of the ingridients is Sodium Carbonate. This is easily made at home. Baking soda (Not baking powder) is Sodium Bicarbonate. You need to heat the Sodium Bicarbonate (NaHCO3) in a pan. Little gysers of CO2 and steam will make the NaHCO3 look almost like it's boiling (It actually looks quite cool ). Shake the pan every few seconds. Once there is no more activity, remove the pan from the stove. You now have Sodium Carbonate (Na2CO3). This is the reaction: 2NaHCO3+ Heat --> Na2CO3 + CO2 + H2O Your resulting product will infact be lighter than with what you started, since CO2 and water go away into the air, but the difference will be so small that you will hardly notice. This is, of course if you can't find any Na2CO3 in store. I once read what it is used for commertially, but I forget. ++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: Sodium carbonate is used as a pool aditive. Comes in 2kg containers for around $10 ++++++++++++++++++++++ John doe Pyro: I just thought I'd share my amasing flitter star composition: 60 KClO410 400-600 mesh Al10 Flitter Al flakes10 Charcole10 Dextrin ++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: Chems arn't the easiest to get +++++++++++++++++++++ John doe Pyro: Those chems are hard for you to get? Well I'm shure that KClO3 or maybe even KNO3 could be subsituted for the KClO4. Sometimes I forget how spoiled I am liveing in the US... +++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: Not only are the chems hard to get, but also expensive. I like KClO4 better for making silver tails than KNO3, though. It seems to throw the sparks longer, if you know what I mean. I might try this one, but I need some more info. Is the charcoal airfloat? And how fine is the flitter Al? Fine, medium or coarse(firefly) flitter? +++++++++++++++++++++++++ John doe Pyro: yeah, it's airfloat charcole, and the flitters are quite coarse, like in this pic from United Nuclear: ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: That flitter Al looks like it could be made in a blender like in the Al powder thread, only not running it as long. +++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: What kind of stars did you make? I think these will be hard to roll. I have a feeling the stars may fall apart, but I'm not sure about that. I am not used to using such coarse Al. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ John doe Pyro: I roll my stars by hand in a bowl(alternateing from spraying them with water and adding composition) The binding was a concern for me aswell, but amasingly they stick together quite nicely. Soon I shall get a picture of my latest batch of thease stars - 1kg of the flitter star comp and 200 grams of strobeing comp as cores. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ _Po_: I made flitters before I knew what they were. I cut up some al foil to rough .5cm squares then went over it a few times with my mortar and pestle. It got a bit of powder and flitters that look exactly like that pic. I used them with KMnO4 and S to make white burning stuff which I also found by mistake. I wrapped some KMnO4/S in foil to see if it would explode about 3 years ago and it made big white sparks. I was amazed that I'd found something out for myself. All this happened before I had internet access too. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Lost Prophet: Although the chemicals are rather hard to get for this one I'm sure we've all given up on the idea of an "easy" blue. "Paris Green Blue" Potassium chlorate 68 Paris green 22 Shellac. 6 Dextrin 4 It's one of the best blues I've been able to obtain and leaves virtually no residue. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ John doe Pyro: As promised: http://ee.domaindlx.com/JDP669/F-star%20001.jpg Note they have not been primed yet. http://ee.domaindlx.com/JDP669/F-star%20003.jpg This is one of them burning(looks much better in real life). Edit: Changed the images into links due to size. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ _Po_: Here's ther pic of the comp: http://gopher.o-f.com/white_comp.jpg And here's a frame of the vid of it burning. I can get better vids during the day so I might edit the pic tomorrow. http://gopher.o-f.com/white_spark.jpg I've never tried this in a star but it makes a pure white when it burns. There is no orange, yellow or red flame to go along with it like the pic might suggest. I had to get a frame as it was dying down because it was too bright for the cam and it went all white.It's KMNo4/sulfur/aluminium grinds that are fairly coarse in a rough estimated ratio of 5:3:4. Any ideas on how could I make it into a star? KMNo4 isn't what you'd call workable when it gets wet. +++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rooster Posted January 21, 2006 Author Posted January 21, 2006 rooster: John Doe, they look awesome! How big is the particle size, do you know that? I can get 1000-2000um and 630-1000um. I guess it isn't smaller? KMnO4 is very workable, but not if water is used as solvent, as it will dissolve and stain horribly. I think I would try acetone/NC binding, but I DO avoid using KMnO4 in pyro. ++++++++++++++++++++ _Po_: Why do you avoid using it? It gives some nice effects. ++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: I avoid using it mostly because I have access to KNO3, KClO4 and such. Also, it is very messy and staining, and I don't like it as an oxidizer. I think it is too unpredictable. ++++++++++++++++++++ _Po_: I haven't had any trouble with it. I can't make the KMNo4/S comp ignite by friction but I did find that if you light it in a trail then hit it where it's burning it makes a small bang. I'm careful with it and it hardly ever stains me or anything. Oh, I did get it to ignite with friction once. I made a rocket then drilled the nozzle and it lit up in my room and because that stuff is like a mild thermite I had to drop it on my carpet. Now there's a hole there. I know this sounds stupid but it was in my earlier days. +++++++++++++++++++ John doe Pyro: "John Doe, they look awesome! How big is the particle size, do you know that? I can get 1000-2000um and 630-1000um. I guess it isn't smaller?" I'm not shure I understand what you are asking, are you asking how big the stars them selves are? If so, they are about 1/2 inch(12.7mm). Yes they did turn out quite nice and uniform. ++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: Ahh, sorry for being unclear. No I mean the particle size of the Flake Aluminium. Or where did you get it from? +++++++++++++++++++++++ John doe Pyro: Oh, well I'm not very shure of the particle size of the Al flakes, I'd say maybe 10 to 50 mesh(sorry, I don't know how that converts to 'um'). You can go by that picture I posted earlyer though. I ordered it from Pyrotek. ++++++++++++++++++++++ Mumbles: http://www.reade.com/Sieve/international_sieve.html It'll tell you what you want to know regarding mesh ro micrometers. A micrometer(um) is 1/1000 of a millimeter. So 1/1,000,000 of a meter. Those are some nice looking stars. They turned out very nicely. +++++++++++++++++++++++ Andyboy: About the same thing: http://www.wovenwire.com/reference/sievescreen.htm Go tta love the background music, though +++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: What an annoying tune! Pyrotek sure gives little info on their aluminiums... No mesh size on the flitters, no particle size, no info where it is from, etc. +++++++++++++++++++++++ John doe Pyro: I'd say it really dosn't matter exactly what size they are(infact, that is probably why they work so well in that comp), maybe just grind some Al foil in a blender with water and then mill the product to get nice flakes. ++++++++++++++++++++++ John doe Pyro: I've just rolled on to my other batch of flitter stars 200 grams of Veline's blue star: Potassium perchlorate.............................55Copper(II)oxide................... ................15Parlon............................................15Re d gum...........................................9Magnalium (50/50), 200 mesh.......................6Dextrin......................................... ..+4 exept I used Copper carbonate insted of CuO. So now they should transiton from a nice blue, to flitter, to strobe. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: I fear that it will not make a good blue, but thats maybe not what you're after. Do you want a good blue, or just have first one effect, then another? The veline (system) blue is KP based, and not AP-based(better for blues). But, most importantly, the MgAl will burn with a such high temperature that little blue is produced. The good thing with velines system is that you can mix all the colour comps as you want to, and don't have to worry about incompatibilities. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ John doe Pyro: Well the comp I have mixed makes a very nice blue, perhaps it won't perform well in the air? I would like to make some AP based blue star comp but I don't have any AP... ++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: Try it in the air, and if it is too bright(too much white), try an organic comp like Conkling KP #1 or Shimizu KP #1. I can give you the recipes. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ John doe Pyro: I found a comp on the PFP database called Shimizu, the best one that caught my eye was this: Potassium perchlorate.....60.8Basic copper carbonate....12.3Parlon....................13.1Red gum...................9Dextrin...................4.8 This seems quite similar to Veline's with the exeption of 6 grams of Mg/Al, but it's much better? I think I'll include a pound of NH4ClO4 in my next order of chems. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: I would say it is much better to leave metals out in blue comps. It has to be fairly cool-burning. Buy some AP next time, the difference is awesome! I made some of the best red organic stars I've ever seen from AP/Strontium Carbonate. That recipe looks like shimizu #1. It will not be a fully saturated deep blue, but it will be better than velines. However, velines will be much brighter, if you know what I mean. Each star will have more light output, but not as pure colour. Depends on what you like. Metals are very fine with green and red, BTW. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _Po_: I tried NC lacquer as a binder in some KMnO4/S/Al stars and the results were very good. Here's a video showing what the stars look like and going off in a tine mine/shell type thing:http://www.geocities.com/po_is_g00dest/ga.mpgIt only went up about 4 metres but it was alright.Here's some basic orange stars in a tiny 2/3" shell:http://www.geocities.com/po_is_g00dest/3rd.mpgAnd here's a shower type effect:http://www.geocities.com/po_is_g00dest/2nd.mpg Edit: You'll have to copy and paste or save target as. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: I cant get them to work. Not copying/pasting, not save target as, and not just clicking the link. ++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rooster Posted January 22, 2006 Author Posted January 22, 2006 K9: Works for me and it looks pretty nice. ++++++++++++++++++++ _Po_: I just found a small packet labelled "Silver Nitrate for silver plating". I think there were a few star comps that used it but I'll have to find them. Has anyone ever used silver nitrate in any comps? If so how was it? +++++++++++++++++++++ Smlizz: I have never heard of it being uses in comps, but i dont know eveything so it might be. i was wondering were you got it cuz is expencive like 30g for $102 USD. It is used in making D-salts theres a thread on that in HE ,but other then that im not sure what else its used for. ++++++++++++++++++++++ Mr_Pyro: I have finaly obtained some strontium nitrate and barium nitrate and want to make some red and green stars. I found the comps and want to know if anybody has tried them or something similar. RED kno3 36sulfur 30Meal powder 36strontium nitrate 40antimony sulfide 5charcoal 12Bind with 5% dextrin GREEN kno3 35sulfur 10Meal powder 40Barium nitrate 50charcoal 10Bind with 5% dextrin In the red comp it calls for antimony sulfide which I am unable to get. Can it be left out or replaced with no negitive effects. Thanks for any input! +++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: They may work satisfactory, and they may not. It is not a kewlish question, but you can find most of the answers to your questions by searching. Green and red star comps are often better suited with a chlorine donor. Potassium Nitrate-based greens and reds are not very usual, and most often don't have the nicest colour. I know of one with barium nitrate, MgAl, saran(chlorine donor), and a binder(red gum). No perchlorates or chglorates. This comp has won a few competitions. Its supposed to be very bright, clean burning, and with an amazing colour purity. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Lost_Prophet: Antimony sulfide lowers the ignition temperature of the mixture, and to a smaller extent, increases the burn rate. With the use of heavy priming you should be able to get away without using antimony sulfide, however, notice that the color purity will be slightly lowered! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mumbles: I believe antimony sulfide will also make some sparks in addition to the lowering of ignition temp. Maybe try adding some granulated charcoal and a little more sulfur. This might work. I can't promise anything, but it's something to try. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mr_Pyro: Thanks for the help and info. I will try them and see what the results are. I also have Kclo4 and Kclo3 if these comps are easly addaped to them.I tried a search on green and red star comps like this but it yealded not much. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: http://come.to/pfp This is the PFP database, a collection of pyrotechnic compositions. In here you will find many compositions that will suit your needs. For your needs, press stars, and find the colour and type you would like. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: Well I just made my new star comp. It is a blonde streamer type star. It conisists of 85 fine BP, 10 aluminium (I used -325 mesh spherical) and 5 dextrin. I have 500g worth of these stars drying right now. They only need a light prime and can be made by the simplest and fasted method - cut stars ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Frkonaleash1010: hmm that makes me think of my fountain mix. I use 80/20 BP/Fe.......i think the possibility of changing it to 80/15/5 BP/Fe/Dextrin could be nice. I will make some once i make more lift and report back ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: Well this is a pic of the new star comp I made in a cake type device. Note how the "head" of the star is a blonde colour then fades to a white with the aluminium. I personally can't wait to try these in a shell! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ _Po_: You've probably tried the KNO3/sucrose stars. Well, I added some Zn to the mix and got a really good result. It has a orange/red/purple head with a green trail. Can't give the exact comp right now. When I get my digital scales in the next week or so I'll get the ratios and post them. I crushed up a smoke bomb I made and added a bit of Zn and went over it a few times in my M+P.These stars look amazing. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Andyboy: Ok, andyboy has been a busy boy. When my comp crashed i was forced to do something, i guess it was a good thing that happened. My comp had been long overdue and i had all these fancy progs that i didn't use anyway. I was forced to entertain myself, and what better way then making stars, it's tedious and boring (unless you get an unwanted reaction) and they take forever to dry. Here are all the stars i made: If they work out the way i wan't them i will post the formulas, preparation and my experiences. The al stars i usually make are made with 325 mesh al and 80µm al. The ones i made now where made with a mix of 80µm al and German dark (my supplier didn't have any 325mesh left so he sent german dark instead, for the same price ). They started to smell (ammonia?) when drying so i had to put them outside until they where dry. Might want to use boric acid next time to make sure they don't spontaneously ignite. +++++++++++++++++++++++ mash: Wow Andyboy! Thats one big ass collection of stars you got there ! Is that strontium carbonate for the red? Or Nitrate? [edit] Got my Potassium chlorate synth done now, so im going to make a large batch of that, for my red stars . Once again big old collection of stars +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Andyboy: He, it is a big ass collection, but it's going up in the air soon enough and then it is no more. The red stars are made with strontium nitrate, used up all of it for a few stars. Seems that it was full of water since i don't recall using any of it and it seemed a lot less when i opened the container. Huh..... All the stars are BP primed to some degree so they look quite boring but i will make pictures showing how the mix looked when wet aswell. Don't know if that would be necessary but... who knows. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Poor Man: Did you end up finding what the mystery oxidiser was andyboy? Did you ring your mum? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Andyboy: No such luck, i called her and asked if she still had some but she used it all (she has two large gardens) and threw away the bag. I went to the place where i bought it but neither i nor the guy who runs the place remember what it was that i bought. Tough break, but that's life. I have about 10 kg's of it so i'll be fine, but i feel sad for you. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ DavidThePyro: Your mystery stars worry me, Andy How big are those comets? +++++++++++++++++++++++ _Po_: I just made something with my new fancy shmancy scale! I made a gold fountain comp called "Basic Meal" (2:8:3 meal:KNO3:S) and it worked okay. Then I decided to try some Zn in it. WOW! I added an extra 10 of Zn powder in the ratio and it made a massive flame (a 2g pile made about a 20cm x 10cm) which burned pretty slowly from the amount of fire given off. It was bright white with tinges of yellow and green that were hardly visible. It lit up everything around me. There were no sparks which looked impressive. I'm going to try making a bit into some stars. 2:3:8:10 meal:S:KNO3:Zn. Edit: That's a 1.5g pile in its peak. It's about a meter away from the car to give an idea of the size. And the camera is about two meters away. Pretty sweet, eh? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ K9: I just tried out that composition. Didn't seem to work as nicely for me. It burned slowly and gave me a yellowish/green flame and made quite a bit of smoke. The flame wasn't that big either and there was residue left over. But all in all it still looked pretty nice. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mr. Yuk: Mr. Pyro, I have tried that green comp before and I have tested it yesterday. It doesn't work at all. I doubt the red will work but it should have a hint of red. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rooster Posted January 22, 2006 Author Posted January 22, 2006 Chaz: I've just made my own green star formula. The ingrediants are easy to get, and cheap, and the mix burns slowly, with a large flame. On the downside theyre quite hard to ignite, and leave a bit of slag. Zinc - 31PVC - 3KNO3 - 11 I tried adding sulfur, it makes the mix a lot easier to ignite, and gets rid of most of the slag, but also makes it burn faster. For this reason I've decided not to use any. Chances are you wont believe it works, since it's so overfueled. However it does burn, I assure you, I've got a video of a pile of it burning but it just came out white/pale green, so here are some stills: www.infernolabs.co.uk/images/albums/userpics/pyro/burn1.jpg Thats a very large pic (too big for the forum) of it pretty much half way through burning. The colour isnt very accurate, but you get the idea. This is near the end, the colour is more accurate, look at the glow on the bricks, thats about the colour it was. I've made some stars with it, they're still drying but should be done in a day or two. Ill put them in a starmine and get a video, you can all see what you think. +++++++++++++++++++ Chaz: Har har! I have done it! My first home-made formula. It is quite easy to light but requires a BP prime, burns slowly, with a brilliant green flame, using cheap and easy to get chemicals. KNO3 - 11Zinc - 31PVC - 3Sulfur - 3Dextrin - 1 I name my star 'Inferno Green' Hehe thats cheesy... I made a star gun with 2 small stars, but for some reason it was a very loud and powerful explosion, but the stars just popped out the top. I think its because the bag ruptured around the side and the top, so the stars must have been thrown against the tube, and pushed upwards weakly by the heat/gases. I'll try another later. Of course, heres the video:www.infernolabs.co.uk/videos/InfernoGreenFail.wmv Wha tcha'll think? ++++++++++++++++++++ _Po_: They look perdy. The second one was betterer than the first one. +++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: The thing is the comp has more than double the other components in zinc! Thats the bad thing about granite, zinc is heavy as a bitch! +++++++++++++++++++++++ Chaz: Thats true blind, but at least they burn slowly, which compensates. ++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: Well yes but that still limits them when they go in a large shell that needs bigger stars ect. Meh I will give them a go when I buy some more zinc. ++++++++++++++++++++++ Chaz: Bollocks. I just did 2 starguns, and the stars failed in both. From the video the prime is clearly burning, its just not setting off the star. So I have just given it a much thicker prime, BP with a small amount of zinc from useless little balls of composition, might give the prime a tint of green and since metals burn hot it should help ignition. If the stars still dont work then I'm just gonna have to make some more, with even more sulfur, which I dont want to do. The burnrate is good how it is, I dont want it any faster. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mumbles: I hear adding 1 part in 20 aluminum to black powder makes one hell of a prime. Never tried it, but I bet theres not much it can't light. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: Just to what Mumbles said, the Aluminium is probably of the dark/fine flake variety. Granular or spherical will not be as good here. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ somebody: I made a very good starmine yesterday, with these stars:KNO3:55sugar:25charcoal:10flower(for baking bread):5maizena:3dextrine:2 (There can be a tiny mistake, because I don't writed all on paper when I made these star ) You could change all the maizena in dextrine en a bit more flower en less sugar, these stars are great!!With beautiful golden sparks(the flower) en they look bigger because all the golden sparks.They were pumped stars and coated with H3. edit:They arren't to hydroscopic.. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: KNO3 and sugar in a star comp, anyone else smell a hygroscopic star? The charcoal may compensate for it though. +++++++++++++++++++++++ Chaz: My Al is very fine, but spherical. It doesnt work in 70/30 Flash. The stars are ready and I'll do a stargun once it gets dark. That'll be in about 4 hours time. Watch this space... ---------------------------------------- OK! Hopefully you watched this space. If not then it wont look like much happened. Anyway: Did 2 starguns with the new stars...and...success! Both stars ignited. Could have done with more lift. On the first video the camera doesnt capture the green very well, and on the 2nd video its quite a bit better because I filmed slightly zoomed in. The colour is good, but I'm not very pleased with the effect given by the prime, or by the burn time. They are heavy stars, and dont burn long enough for my liking. Also, a granite effect is given because of the prime still burning while the main star is. So, I will do the following: Make more stars, this time with almost no sulfur, which will make them burn slower but harder to light. The prime will be the same star mix, but with lots of sulfur. I might even use Zinc/Sulfur slow burning flash. This way, the star will always burn only green, easily ignite, and burn slowly. Well, thats the theory... Video 1: www.infernolabs.co.uk/videos/InfernoGreen.wmvVideo 2: www.infernolabs.co.uk/videos/InfernoGreen2.wmv ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sparkler: Those stars look the same as granite spreaders. Also, do you get your PVC from pipes? I recall reading on another thread that you were going to try that. Still a nice looking star. Better than I could make up. Granite Spreader- 14 Potassium nitrate- 2.5 Sulfur- 7 Charcoal- 40 Zinc dust- 1 Dextrin ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chaz: I was planning to, but I asked my mate and his dads a plastics expert. He had some PVC offcuts, so I dont know how pure they are, or what they were used for. As for looking like granite stars, they shouldent do that, its because the damned BP prime is giving it that affect. And I can honestly say that I didnt just mess around with the ratios for a granite star, I did do it all myself, then a few days realised that the granite star was similar to mine. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hellworm: A gree formula that has worked for me:This formula burns with a very very bright green flame. When pressed into a tube it burns very slowly (10mm ID 80mm long tube filled with this comp burns for more than a minute), leaving virtually no residue.I pressed this into a tube of afore mentioned size, an it lit up a huge area (Approx. 1 Hectare).I have not tried to make stars with it, but I guess you could make pillbox stars, allthough this mix is very very hard to ignite. Even KClO4/SU incindiary mix will not get it going. From wouter's composition database: Comments: According to the original text: "An aluminum torch of heretofore unheard of brilliance and giving an illumination, in the 2.54cm size, of what is said to be 100000 candlepower". Testing with paint grade aluminum revealed that it burns very bright indeed at a steady slow burnrate and with little residue. It is easily pressed in tubes.Preparation: Rub the Vaseline into the barium nitrate. Mix the sulfur and the aluminum separately. Then mix it with the barium nitrate/vaseline mixture. A starting fire mixture is required for ignition. The 'starting fire #1' composition can be used for that purpose. Barium nitrate....................................38Mixed Aluminum....................................9Sulfur......................... ...................2Vaseline..........................................1PS: Mr. Yuk, you have a PM. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chaz: Seems like a very interesting formula, I'd like to try it out just as a flare. What did you use to set it off? Starting fire #1? I've already got everything I need except the vaseline. I assume the bathroom skin stuff has too much other crap added for it to work, any idea where I could buy 'real' petroleum jelly? Oh and my aluminium is very fine, bright in fountains and all, but its spherical, and doesnt work in 70/30 flash. Will it be good enough? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ quest: I don't think thay put much junk into the Vaselineon my Vaseline wtore that it's 100% pureAnd It's ordinary bathroom stuff........... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hellworm: Yes, by vasleine they mean petrolium jelly. It basically there so you can easily press the mix into tubes. Try it with other comps, rub in 1-2% vaseline. It's an idea for pillbox stars with ordinary comps. Plus it makes the mix light on fire just a little bit easier. As for the prime:First I made a 1/1 mix of (Flare Comp.)/(KClO4/SU). I put this ontop of the pure flare mix. To set the prime on fire I used pure KClO4/SU mix. To set that on fire I used a (Zn/S)/BP 1/1 mix.I hope that is legible... Yeah, your Al should be fine, I used Al purified out of silver paint. An additional note, the handcream vaseline is white and more liquid than your ordinary almost-clear, stiff petrolium jelly. There are probably also perfumes and other crap in there that would screw up the mix. Just get real petrolium jelly, it's dirt cheap. +++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rooster Posted January 22, 2006 Author Posted January 22, 2006 Chaz: If the petrolium jelly is only used to make it easier to press, or maybe slightly easier to light, then I'll just skip it for the momoment. I might have a slight problem with the prime you use, since I only have KClO3, not KClO4, and I'm not using a KClO3/Sulfur mix. I think I might prime it with something like Zn/S/Al, we'll see. ********** EDIT: Just tried some out, couldent get it to light. First time I made a pile of it and used some KNO3/Mg flash to try and ignite it, but I got the ratios of the flash wrong and put it on top of the green mix, so it didnt burn well and didnt ignite the green. 2nd attempt I got the ratios of the flash correct, and made a larger pile. I used visco and put the flash at the end of the fuse, then put the green mix on top of the flash. Still didnt work. +++++++++++++++++++++++ Hellworm: Use a propane torch to light it. You could also try to use something that burns relatively slow but very hot. Maybe a 50/50 mixture between the Green comp. and BP, or something that is similarly easy to light. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Frkonaleash1010: flash can rarely be used to ignite something.....it burns hot but too quick....use some BP or even greenmix and then see if it will work if not put comp then 50/50 comp bp then straight bp and test....if that doesn't .....ur kinda fucked ++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mr. Yuk: Hey Blindreeper, I have my contibution for the APC compostion list. I hope you are still maintaining that... I am quoting this from the Blue Star thread to save time. Quote:I have been working on this for a long time and now I have finally got it down. This comp has a beautiful blue despite the fact that it does not contain Parlon or PVC. I burns with a nice speed with little slag. No prime is required, this is by far the most easiest star comp to take fire. I will have a video of this comp in a shell soon. Two drawbacks of this composition are that it contains sulfur and a chlorate, and addition of dextrin washes out the color. Red gum is the binder of choice, as in most colored stars. Potassium Chlorate 40Potassium Nitrate 25Copper Carbonate 15Sulfur 20 Hey blind if you put this into the list I think I'll call this composition "Yuk Blue". An alternative binder besides Red Gum maybe be NC laquer. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mr. Pyro: Mr.Yuk- That looks like a good simple blue star formula. I would like to try it out soon. My question is how sensative is it to friction and shock since it contains pottasium clorate and sulfur. Also how are these stars best formed cut/pumped/rolled? Could the Kclo3 be replaced with Kclo4 with out to much of a change in color? Thanks +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sparkler: I doubt the Potassium Chlorate can be changed with Potassium Perchlorate. As Potassium Chlorate gives off more chlorine. Even if it did work it would be harder to light. With the sulfur issue you can try replacing it with lactose. Before you start bitching at me about how hard lactose is to get you can try powdered milk. Yep, powdered milk will supposedly work as a replacment for lactose. A newbish question but, could NaCl or KCl be used as a chorine donor? I'm no chem genious so dont flame me. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Lost Prophet: Simply put, you can't say whether or not KClO3 or KClO4 give off more chlorine simply because their are too many variables! Everything from different heats of decomposition to the amount of available oxygen can have an effect to some degree. With different fuel/oxygen ratios different amounts of heat are produced which further effect the heats of decomposition, which lead to substantially different flame temperatures, which further lead to different amounts of excitation of the color emitter and a variance on the amount of available chlorine. As for NaCl or KCl being used as chlorine donors, sodium compounds are quickly ruled out as sodium's D-line atomic emission (589 nm) is so strong and easily excited that even minute amounts of sodium impurities will quickly ruin the color of nearly any color emitting spectra. With regards to KCl, it suffers the same problem as ammonium chloride in the fact that it's decomposition temperature is not as close as needed to the temperature required for color production. In order for chlorine to be considered "available" It must decompose at it's decomposition temperature leaving free chlorine to react. Potassium chloride doesn't decomposes at a temperature required for color production and thus, can't be used as a chlorine donor in pyrotechnic compositions. In essence, potassium chloride tends to decompose leaving little to no free chlorine for the color emitting spectra. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: Lost_prophet, I know there are many variables, but from what I have read, generally, potassium chlorate gives off more free chlorine when decomposing than potassium perchlorate. Also, Mr yuk, what about using shellac as the fuel(and binder)? It is very much used with chlorate comps. NC lacquer may work, just don't add too much. Too much will make the star explode/split during burning. I have never used chlorate comps much, but shellac is said to be a fuel better than red gum. Red gum is preferred in perchlorate compositions, but in chlorate comps, word on the streets is that they give a tint of orange. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mr. Yuk: I as considering shellac but it tends to give a yellow/orange color, just look at all the orange and yellow comps that are fuelled and bound by shellac. I prefer to cut these stars; because I can't use a lot of binder and I find it hard to roll stars that don't. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: I just had a look at the Kentish book. Many of the formulations there use shellac in combination with chlorates. Even though there are many orange/yellow comps with shellac, doesn't mean shellac makes a so strong yellow it will be stronger than that of copper blues! I have heard the shellac is one of the most clean-burning fuel for chlorates. This may be wrong, but I seriously doubt it! Have you seen maltese firework shows? They Almost solely utilize chlorates and nitrates as their oxidisers. Chlorate comps are often bound with gum arabic, using shellac(almost always) as (one of the) fuels. Maltese colours are known to be the most clear and vivid in the world! A note if you are intending to use gum arabic, it is a good binder and makes VERY hard stars, but be sure to use your solution the same day as it is made. It will turn sour upon storage, and we all know acidity is not the thing for chlorate comps! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ a_bab: You can download some maltese shells movies here:http://www.maltafireworks.com/shells2.html It's obviously that the shells perform really well, what can I say... And most of the stars are changing colors stars. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Sparkler: This isn't my star comp, it's a modified Reeper Silver star. The normal Reeper Silver burns to fast so I changed the comp to use green mix Potassium Nitrate - 63.75%Charcol - 12.75%Aluminum(325 mesh spherical) - 10%Sulfur - 8.5%Dextrin - 5%+ 2/3% Boric Acid +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Crazy_Swede: Regarding the disussion about the use of shellac in colour compositions: Most shellac is reasonably free from sodium and calcium and should not discolour a transparent flame towards yellow or orange to such a degreee that it can't be used as a fuel for blue or green compositions. Also, compared to other organic fuels, shellac has the unusual behaviour of NOT discoulouring an oxygen deficient flame because of its high hydrygen/carbon ration. This means that the tendency of forming detrimental soot in a coloured flame is lower if shellac is used, compared with charcoal for instance. Try pure mixtures of 10, 15 and 20 percent finely powdered shellac with your oxidisers. The flame should only be slightly redish or orange. If not, try to wash your shellac with water. It is also important to be aware of the extremely long drying times of shellac stars that has been moistened with alcohol. If the composition is not properly dried, the burning temperature might be too low for an effective combustion. Personally, I don't use shellac anymore because it is a bitch to grind fine enough and I get better results with powdered phenolic resins of the novolac type! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ rooster: Wow! Thanks there dude. I guess the phenolic resins have muc of the smae properties of shellac since you say you use these instead? Are these "novolac" type resins publicly available? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Crazy_Swede: I'm sure there are other brands but mine is called Peracit 8156 G and was produced by Perstorp S.A., Division Chemitec in France. Search for powdered phenolic resins or phenol/formaldehyde resins! It should be free from mineral fillers and fiber additives, which often is added for additional strenght since the material is used for bakelite products, but organic additives like hexamine is ok for the pyrotechnical application. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ optimus: "Brilliant Red/Titanium star" from AFN iv Strontium Nitrate ............................................40Titanium 20-40 mesh .......................................20Magnalium 65:35 Atomised 150 mesh .............. 15Polyvinyl Chloride ...........................................15Accroides Resin (Red gum) ...............................5Potassium Perchlorate ......................................5 I used FerroTitanium The prime was BP and Silicon powder. http://creeper.250free.com/stargun.MPG Check out the stargun test. Should see what they look like in a shell soon +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Frkonaleash1010: Can we get this added to the APC comp database please? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ pyrohawk: Hey, nice star looks real good!Since I can't get Chems I've not really been able to expiriment with my own star making.... All I can make is simple stars like the Reeper Silver! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mr. Yuk: Stay posted to this thread: http://www.xsorbit2.com/users/xinventionsp...hnics/index.cgi? board=general_discussion&action=display&num=1081537660concerning our new, but pending, Composition Database. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rooster Posted January 22, 2006 Author Posted January 22, 2006 Crazy_Swede: Optimus,the problem with your modification of the star formula is that you lost the full white tail it is supposed to have. Substituting FeAl for Ti will give a yellowish tail instead of the desired white. Also, 70 mesh is too fine to give a longer tail! Using coarse MgAl instead of the the rather fine powder (150 mesh) that was specified will alter the combustion behaviour in a way that might affect both colour and ease of ignition. However, I don't mean that your modified formula is bad or useless, it just doesn't produce the expected effect! ++++++++++++++++++++++++ optimus: Thanks for the constructive criticism This alteration was done to find a use for my crazy 90:10 Mg/Al, and try my Fe/Ti in a coloured star. I was dissapointed with the Fe/Ti tail, but think it might be worth trying it with larger grains. For my next batch, I will try using pure Titanium, and some new, MUCH finer Mg/Al (i'm giving up on my 90:10) - should improve the tail and burning charecteristics. If that still doesn't produce the right results, I might try binding it with Polyvinyl Acetate and fuelling it with pure Magnesium. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chrysalis: For those who cant obtain or afford exotic chemicals these are the star comps I've found that should be within your grasp. Sorry the posts so large but i thought it may be helpfull to many like me. Potassium Nitrate - 63.75%Charcol - 12.75%Aluminum(325 mesh spherical) - 10%Sulfur - 8.5%Dextrin - 5%+ 2/3% Boric Acid Metallic fireKNO3 37Sulphur 9Al 47Boric acid 1Dextrin 6Binder 35% alcohol White Star #1Potassium Nitrate.................................58Aluminum.......................... ................40Dextrin...........................................2 White Star #6Potassium nitrate.................................59Sulfur............................ ................30Meal powder.......................................11 Silver Shower Star #3Add water and proceed as usual. Flitter Aluminum (or any grade except the finest pyro grades).....15Potassium nitrate.................................55Boric acid........................................2Fine charcoal.....................................10Dextrin...................... .....................5 Firefly #1Aluminum is large flake. It was sieved through a windowscreen. This gives about 30 mesh powder. Potassium nitrate.................................50Charcoal,air float................................29Charcoal, 80 mesh.................................10.5Sulfur............................. ...............6 Aluminum (large flake)............................4.5Dextrin or CMC....................................+5 or +1 White Flitter StarPotassium nitrate.................................17Sulfur............................ ................3Charcoal..........................................3Alum inum, course..................................4Aluminum flake, fine..............................10Dextrin................................. ..........1 White Comet #1Potassium nitrate.................................96Fine charcoal.....................................44Sulfur....................... .....................15Dextrin...........................................10White Comet #2Potassium nitrate.................................40Fine charcoal.....................................24Sulfur....................... .....................8Dextrin...........................................9 White Fire #1Potassium nitrate.................................24Sulfur............................ ................7Charcoal..........................................1 White Fire #5Potassium nitrate.................................24Charcoal.......................... ................1Sulfur............................................1 Yellow Fire #1Potassium nitrate.................................4Sulfur............................. ...............1Charcoal..........................................2Sodiu m chloride...................................3 “Yuk Blue”Potassium Chlorate 40Potassium Nitrate 25Copper Carbonate 15Sulfur 20*Bind with shellac or red gum not dextrin Unfortunatley i cant give credits for where i got these from because i dont know. I saved them all to my comp file without recording the authors, the only one i can give credit for is Yuk blue which is courtesy of Mr. Yuk from the last page. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ pyrohawk: Yeah when I found the Reeper Silver you wrote I thought I hit the jackpot! With my limited chems its been the only cool star I've been able to make!! Beautiful star!!! Does anyone else know any stars that are made with the base ingredient being meal powder?? I need some other stars I can make.... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Poor Man: I went through too. Red: Potassium nitrate.................................36Sulfur............................ .......................30Meal powder........................................36Strontium nitrate..................................40Antimony sulfide.................................5Charcoal........................... ....................12 Strontium nitrate.................................55Magnesium......................... ................28PVC....................................................17Green: Potassium nitrate.................................35Sulfur............................ ......................10Meal Powder.......................................40Barium nitrate.....................................50Charcoal...................... ........................10 Blue: Potassium nitrate.................................40Sulfur............................ ................12Mealpowder........................................40Co pper-ammonium nitrate...........................30Charcoal................................ ..........10Rosin.............................................5 Potas sium Nitrate................................65Copper oxychloride................................12.5Lactose...................... .....................12.5Dextrin...........................................5Saran.............................................5 Potassium Nitrate.............................60Copper Carbonate..................................20PVC............................ ...................15Dextrin...........................................5 Yellow: Potassium nitrate.................................48Sulfur............................ ................24Mealpowder........................................60Ch arcoal..........................................10Rosin..................... ........................2 White: Potassium Nitrate.................................58Aluminum.......................... ................40Dextrin...........................................2 Potassium nitrate.................................59Sulfur............................ ................30Meal powder.......................................11 Potassium nitrate.................................42Sulfur............................ ................18Mealpowder........................................18Effects: Gold Flitter: Potassium nitrate, fine...........................16Sulfur..................................... .......3Charcoal, powdered................................2Sodium oxalate or Ultramarine.....................4 or 2Fine, grey aluminum powder (preferably pyro Aluminum).....11Flake Aluminum or medium Al powder (Al bronze works well).....5Dextrin...........................................4 Zinc Spreader: Potassium nitrate.................................14Zinc dust.........................................40Charcoal..................... .....................7Sulfur............................................4 Silver Shower: Flitter Aluminum (or any grade except the finest pyro grades).....15Potassium nitrate.................................55Boric acid........................................2Fine charcoal.....................................10Dextrin...................... .....................5 Electric Star: Potassium nitrate.................................15Aluminum, fine....................................2Aluminum, medium..................................1Black powder......................................2Antimony sulfide..................................3Sulfur............................ ................4 Fire Fly: Potassium nitrate.................................50Charcoal,air float................................29Charcoal, 80 mesh.................................10.5Sulfur............................. ...............6Aluminum (large flake)............................4.5Dextrin or CMC....................................+5 or +1 Potassium Nitrate.................................47Air Float Charcoal................................33Antimony tri-sulfide..............................5.8Aluminum (400 mesh,12 micron, spherical)..........4.2Sulfur............................................4.7Dextrin...........................................5.2 Potassium nitrate.................................49Charcoal, air float...............................29Charcoal, 36 Mesh.................................11Sulfur............................... .............9Dextrin...........................................10Alumin um, firefly.................................5 White Flitter Star: Potassium nitrate.................................17Sulfur............................ ................3Charcoal..........................................3Alum inum, course..................................4Aluminum flake, fine..............................10Dextrin................................. ..........1 White Comet: Potassium nitrate.................................96Fine charcoal.....................................44Sulfur....................... .....................15Dextrin...........................................10Potassium nitrate.................................40Fine charcoal.....................................24Sulfur....................... .....................8Dextrin...........................................9 Golden Chrysanthemum: Potassium nitrate.................................40Aluminum (somewhat coarse flake)..................30Sulfur............................................ 10Realgar...........................................10Hemp coal (or pauownia coal)......................2Boric acid........................................1Soluble glutinous rice starch.....................7 Charcoal Fire Dust: Potassium nitrate.................................55Sulfur............................ ................7Pine charcoal.....................................33Soluble glutinous rice starch.....................5 Potassium nitrate....................49Sulfur......................................... ...6Pine charcoal.....................................40Soluble glutinous rice starch.....................5 Potassium nitrate.................................45Pine charcoal.....................................50Soluble glutinous rice starch.....................5 Potassium nitrate.................................44Sulfur............................ ................6Pine charcoal.....................................44Soluble glutinous rice starch.....................6 Potassium nitrate.................................35Sulfur............................ ................12Pine charcoal.....................................45Soluble glutinous rice starch.....................8 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ mehabel: Yellow Fire #1Potassium nitrate.................................4Sulfur............................. ...............1Charcoal..........................................2Sodiu m chloride...................................3 I've tried the above comp several times and it always failed miserablyit is very hard to ignite and when it do it burn in a usual orange flame leaving large amounts of residuaany thought or suggestion? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: I was thinking about how cool dragons eggs are today. Well I have tried several times to make them but no avail! This idea has come up before but I would like to see some discussion. What about using PbO2? From car batteries? I have a mess of dead ones that I am going to hack up soon for the dioxide to experiment with. I am thinking I will use aluminium, KNO3 and perhaps some copper oxide. Better yet, does anyone know if it is possible to conver PbO2 to red lead, Pb2O3? *hint hint for mumbles* Also I was looking in Lancasters book and there was a formula for a blue which was as follows KClO3 - 65Basic Copper Chloride 11.5Dextrin - 5 I looked at basic copper chloride and thought, "hang on basic copper chloride rings a bell" It does! It is simply copper oxichloride, a readily available fingicide! I don't know how this comp actually works but potassium chlorate, chopper oxichloride and dextrin doesn't seem to hard! I know Poor Man has some pure potassium chlorate so I kinda request this to him (and anyone else who has the right chemicals) to try this a report back the results. I would but alas, no KClO3 for me Unless I want to pay $100 for 1/2kg...NOT The other blue formula is another simple one: Potassium Chlorate - 67Copper (II) oxide (black oxide, no?) - 13Dextrin - 5 What is with these simple formulae! Also anyone who can please try these for everyones benifit. I am sure people could save some money if these are half decent blues. Well I am off to go and try that first blue with KNO3...99% Sure it won't work but how will we ever discover new things! No harm in trying...well the smoke is probably toxic but thats not the point +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Poor Man: Well, Crysalis has more KClO3 than me. The guy ended up having used a lot of it, so there was only 300 grams or so in there, then I had to give 100 grams to Crysalis, then minus my experimenting with H3, and my manufacture of chlorate fuse, I am not left with much. I am drying out my remaining KClO3, and am about to try these. I will report back, hopefully within the hour, with good results I have tried many blue star comps today using KNO3 instead, and noe even hasd a flame! They just bubbled! +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Mumbles: Red Lead is Pb3O4, but oh well. I'll the theorising. I came accross a method. I'll look it up when I get home. Look for a neww reply monday or tuesday. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Poor Man: OK, here is my fourth attempt at posting this. Every time I try, someone walks in the room or I have to leave for school, so fourth time lucky I suppose... I tried both comps, but to no avail. Maybe it was because the KClO3 was slightly damp, maybe it was because the comps just don't work, but they both burned white for me! The second one burned with a slightly blue tingue when PVC was added, but it was mainly bluey/purple in the tail, and the actual head was white. Then again, it could have been because it was daytime, so I will try tomorrow night to see whether it looks better in the darkness. In my opinion, the comps you came up with in the "best blue star" thread burned much better. On that note, why don't you try binding them again? It couldn't hurt to give it another try. Maybe you didn't use enough dextrin, or not enough water or something - I don't know, but it wouldn't hurt to try again. If you don't I will whenI get my zinc and Al from a certain powders supplier, whcih I won't name because it makes blind angry +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Blindreeper: Sorry for not wanting to give out my sources Just messing. I think it was the daytime thing, if you light a chrysanthemum star during the day it apears to have a little amunt of sparks, but at night its a totally different animal. So please try during the night! ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Poor Man: I will. I think the second comp using CuO burned better(more blue around the edges of the flame envelope) Also, I had to dry out my KClO3, and it was still damp because I wanted to do the testing. It still took flame easily. I started experimenting with altered ratio's and eventually ended up grinding a KClO3/S mix in my mortar and pestle without noticing I realised soon after and decided to be more careful with my chemicals, I was just used to KNO3. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chaz: I've messed around with CuO blue formulas before. In my experience you need a more substantial chlorine donor than just KClO3, PVC helps but I imagine parlon would be a lot better. Also doesnt dextrin mess colours up? I thought thats why red gum or shellac was used as a binder most of the time in coloured star formulas, rather than dextrin. I'll give those formulas a go tomorrow anyway. Blue's my favourite colour. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ END OF THREAD
Zumber Posted July 16, 2011 Posted July 16, 2011 I have tride the following .......it look very good blue in the skyKNO3...........................55CuO(Black).............................25PVC............................15dextrin..........................5
redandblue Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 A few years back Skylighter held a blue star formulation contest. They were stars in aerial shells. The following was judged the best. So I call it Blue Winner, and love it! The problem is that dechlorane has been deemed a toxic substance and is not sold or produced in the US anymore. If you google search on halogens, you can find a list of the best halogen molecules/elements. Flourine is best, but is very reactive and not advisable for pyro use. I got lucky and have a pound or two of dechlorane, mask and gloves required! The other blue comps in the competition are worth looking at too. If I remember correctly, dechlorane has 65% free chlorine, parlon or PVC is much less but may work acceptably. See the chlorine doners here - http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/making-fireworks-projects/chlorine-donor-fireworks-chemicals.asp Blue Winner-pot perc- 65cu ox. - 14red gum- 7parlon - 5dextrin - 5Dechlorane - 4 It lights easily, and is a clear bright blue. I also use AmPerc blue, but I like the blue winner better, and no intermediate priming is needed as with AmPerc. I do use a 50/50 BW/BP step prime just to be sure, and 50/50 alc/water.
Mumbles Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 Most people call in Wilbur Blue after the creator, Mark Wilbur. The initials are still the same at least I like that blue, but as you've mentioned the dechlorane can be a bit hard to get, though still available. I've been told you can use all parlon with little change in color. I have other preferred blues. The above formula burns a bit slow for me, and has a tendency to turn white as it gets to the end of the burn in my experience. Maybe replacing the dechlorane with saran would speed it back up to my liking, and maybe clean up the end of burn.
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