Sambo Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Based on what you want i would go for a 1lb set. Less fuel, cheaper and more easily available tubes, ability to lift up to a 4" shell. If you have the money i would suggest a hybrid-Universal Rocket Kit, you then have the tooling to make many different rockets.
Eric70 Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 I don't even mess with whistle mix yet, since I don't even have a press. Ive diapered a gram or two together once just to see its burn characteristics, and it is just as dangerous and fast as flash IMO. I feel that I will save even touching whistle for quite some time. Static is never a problem in good ole 90% minimum humidity in Texas. ATM I am using a wooden rammer used only for BP, so the contamination is not a problem. I am actually thinking about getting some tooling. I am thinking The 2 or 3lb BP tooling from Rich wolter. But I have a few questions. 1: Has anyone had experience with these tools?2: How much performance will the extra 1/8" add in the 3 lb tooling?3: What tooling will get this effect aside from the report? WHOOOSH! 1. Wolter produces high quality tooling. He is honest and very nice to deal with. The only BP rocket tooling I have bought from Wolter is the 8 oz one and it is of excellent quality. 2. My 3lb BP rocket tooling was custom-made by Rich Wolter. It is based on my dimensions based on what I had read. Attached is what I sent him last year. This baby hauls, perhaps too much - the rockets made with this tooling are hitting approximately 800 feet before arcing. Sounds like a missile taking off. I am still in test phase - thought I had it dialed in but still trying to cool down the fuel. My 1lb BP rockets are dialed-in, I think those rockets are good all-around rockets - not too big, not too small. A buddy and I made the 1lb tooling at work a few years ago. 3. WHOOOSH? That would be the sound of any cored 1lb and up BP rocket! Mike Swisher posted the following information in rec.pyrotechnics about rocket tooling: "Let the diameter of the spindle at base by 1/2 the case's inside diameter (5/16") and its tip be 1/4 the inside diameter (5/32"). Let its length be 7 times the case i.d. (4 3/4"). This should be about right. If the rockets do not have enough zip add some commercial meal to the composition until the performance suits you." I have read somewhere else that the length should be 6 1/2 times, at least for 1lb tooling. As for adding "commercial meal" to suit you, another take on it is to add more Potassium Nitrate to speed it up or more charcoal to slow it down so it doesn't blow out the nozzle or blow up.
Mumbles Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Generally from what I hear, the spindle itself goes 6 1/2 ID into the fuel, but the nozzle it 1ID as well. So overall the tip of the spindle is 7 1/2 ID past the absolute base.
lostfido Posted August 30, 2009 Posted August 30, 2009 I'm no expert on rockets, but I know a guy who is. MR LADUKE I think you can look for some of his videos at American Firework News. You can also buy tooling from Steve, I have a couple of different sets. The best thing about Steves tooling is the help line!!!!Call him with a question after buying his tools and I will guarentee he will have an answer. The amount of knowledge he has off the top of his head is amazing, especially if he has an ice cold Stroh's
Eric70 Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 I'm no expert on rockets, but I know a guy who is. MR LADUKE I think you can look for some of his videos at American Firework News. You can also buy tooling from Steve, I have a couple of different sets. The best thing about Steves tooling is the help line!!!!Call him with a question after buying his tools and I will guarentee he will have an answer. The amount of knowledge he has off the top of his head is amazing, especially if he has an ice cold Stroh's lostfido, Steve LaDuke IS an expert on rockets. No doubt about that. Amen. Please correct me if I am wrong but the only avenue I see for his tooling is through Wolter's site. Does not look like Steve does business online, so you must have some inner-circle connections that many of us do not. Good for you!
Mumbles Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Yes, there is a secret handshake, and a case of Stroh's to get in good with Steve. He does make tooling, but it's not really a business, just a side hobby of sorts. E-mail him for a quote or whatever. I will warn that he is a bit pricier than wolter, but he takes even more care than wolter, if that is even possible. He machines down larger stock for a better fit, along with the customer support. Steve has a lot to teach, both rocketry and other.
dagabu Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 Yes, there is a secret handshake, and a case of Stroh's to get in good with Steve. He does make tooling, but it's not really a business, just a side hobby of sorts. E-mail him for a quote or whatever. I will warn that he is a bit pricier than wolter, but he takes even more care than wolter, if that is even possible. He machines down larger stock for a better fit, along with the customer support. Steve has a lot to teach, both rocketry and other. Steve is on Passfire, you will have to join to see what we are all talking about. I agree, I am looking at the hybrid tooling from Wolter but Steve has me on his list for tooling, gonna be a while, I'm fourth on his list!! It sounds like you want to do whistle comp since you want lots of thrust, low breaks (for rockets) and lots of lift. Whistle is a B***h though, melting, catos, you name it. http://www.wolterpyrotools.com/?page=cc_catg&cat=rocket
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted August 31, 2009 Author Posted August 31, 2009 I would love to do whistle, but I gotta get a press first. Everything keeps pointing me towards one anyway as it would just plain make better rockets, and I could start corning!
dagabu Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 I would love to do whistle, but I gotta get a press first. Everything keeps pointing me towards one anyway as it would just plain make better rockets, and I could start corning! You can start corning now, all you need is Red Gum and Denatured Alcohol and a screen... and a ball mill. You had said "lightening fast", that would be whistle, BP is the slow initial lift, big charcoal tail. I would suggest that if you only want to lift to 100-200', make some short tooling yourself in a drill press and oak rod for a ram. You will find that rocket guys seem to be looking for height, I am looking for the perfect height for my effect and if that is a 3" ball or 2" can, I want it to break at 200', higher lessens the effect. Anyone can build a 6# rocket and launch it to a mile or more with a report. Time and patience will give results but to dispense with the preconceived ideas and strike out to do with it what YOU want is really the point to this hobby. Good luck and PM me if you want more info.
Yafmot Posted August 31, 2009 Posted August 31, 2009 How come I never hear about "star grain" configurations? I know the tooling would be much more complex & hence more expensive, but it would just about guarantee much higher performance, at least at liftoff. There are several ways the tooling could be made. One would be to plunk down the money for an extrusion die for the core former/spindle. Its exterior would correspond to the internal geometry of the port, which would resemble a five or six (or more) pointed star in section. Properly sized, it would greatly increase the initial surface area burning, and hence the initial thrust. Alternately, a slower propellant would keep initial performance the same, but provide more duration. Take your pick. Another way to make it would be with traditional machining operations, but that would eat up a lot of time, and labor intensive = expensive. Yet another would be to design it on a CAD file, then send that off to a rapid prototyping shop that performs SLS (Selective Laser Sintering). They can make it out of anything you want, Al, Stainless, Aluminum Bronze, or even gold, if you're filthy rich & shamelessly ostentatious. It's not that expensive (for common metals), and in fact is geared primarily toward the onesey-twosey end of production rates. The neat thing about CAD-based design & manufacturing is the versatility it affords. It can be applied to the above, and also Stereolithography and your basic CNC machining, plus new stuff popping up every day. Just to keep things clear, Stereolithography is a process that begins with CAD files & cuts them up into thin slices (virtually, of course). there is a tank full of a photopolymer (usually acrylic based) that cures under UV. A computer reds the first slice of CAD data, and this controls a UV laser which scans just the area the CAD tells it to. This hardens one layer of the part. Then the computer reads the next slice, a platform just under the surface of the polymer drops down a very small increment, just enough to cover the previous scan in a thin layer of unreacted liquid, and the laser scans according to the next slice, and so on until a complete part or model is formed. It's a great way to make complex foundry patterns. The first time I saw a Stereolithography Aparratus (SLA) in action was at an aerospace materials symposeum back in the late '80s. Everybody, from fresh-out-of-school greenhorns to NASA and Air Force old-timers who had seen it all had their jaw in their lap (including yours truly), with one old guy from JPL remarking "Wow! This is straight out of Star Trek." It was the closest thing to something-from-nothing I'd ever seen. SLS is quite similar, only using a much hotter laser and metal powder as media, allowing you to make metal parts right off the CAD data. Prototypes that used to take days or weeks to produce now are in your hand in a few hours, or overnight at the most. There are even desktop models, using powdered plastic, for just a couple grand. So again I ask, why is no one using a star-shaped port?
Eric70 Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 Yafmot, I think you answered your own question. That was an enjoyable and interesting read. Enjoyable but out of place here. I work with a fellow who is ex-military and we talked about the star grain configurations, too. However... The name of this forum is "pyrotechnics" not high-powered model rocketry. I don't mind reading stuff here about high-powered rocketry, but I believe a majority of people here want to keep it simple - replicate a centuries old craft and perhaps improve on it a bit.
FrankRizzo Posted September 1, 2009 Posted September 1, 2009 I was going to reply, but Eric nailed it.
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted September 4, 2009 Author Posted September 4, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't corning when the BP is pressed to 1.7g/cc then broken up into pieces? And pulverone is bound BP through a screen?
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted September 11, 2009 Author Posted September 11, 2009 Alright, Im figuring I should probably go ahead and grab the 1lb tooling kit from wolter. I know I wont venture past a 3" shell for quite some time so lifting shouldnt be a problem, or should I step the tooling up just a bit for versatility?
Mumbles Posted September 12, 2009 Posted September 12, 2009 With 1lb BP tooling you can press colored rockets as well. With those you can take up 4" shells without problems.
TYRONEEZEKIEL Posted September 13, 2009 Author Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) Wow.! 4" shells is way more than enough for me right now. OK. Thanks for your help again everyone Edited September 13, 2009 by TYRONEEZEKIEL
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