Can I make a lift powder with no ball mill?

[stug161]

I have not made my mind up yet about which ball mill. So for now, I am doing everyting with a mortar/coffee grinder. I made up a batch of basic black powder (75:15:10). I added 5% dextrin and just enough water from what I have learned. I used my pestle to push it through a $1.97 kitchen drain strainer(which fits perfectly in the upper lip of the plastic tubs from across the wal mat in hardware.) I now have small grains of low grade black powder. The charcoal was airfloat from skylighter and the KNO3 was ground to pass a 100 mesh screen. It burns suprisingly fast and clean. My question is can I use this mix to test some stars? I dont need alot of height, and I am not lifting alot of weight? What if I change my mix ratios? I know not being milled will really hurt the performance, but for what I am wanting to do I am thinking It will work. Maybe I need to use a bit more in my star mine?

 

Thanks, Robert

[Ventsi]

Just try it. That way you will get a better enswer than anyone else can give you. I've actually lifted stars with leftovers from stars [D1, C6, C7]. If you are not getting the height and speed you want just add some more paper towel wadding on top the star. With enough compression you can lift stars with any horrible BP. Just don't overdo it , the star still needs to be able to get out of the tube. Just do a few tests and get a feel for it.

[Weasel]

the only way to know is to try it.

 

If it was made via mortar and pestle it should be fine. if it was simply screened.....you may have some trouble.

[stug161]

Well the KNO4 was screened through the 100 after coffee milling. Once mixed I passed the comp through a 60 mesh a few times. If I add alot of wadding, how can I be sure my stars will take fire? I am really torn. I am really just getting into the hands on part of this. I have studied and read for years. I kinda just want to get a rock tumbler for maybe $40, and use it gently as long as I can. But then I will still have to shell out some dough for a good model sometime down the line. SO.. Should I just bite the bullet and be broke with a good unit, or can I baby a cheap unit for six month or so?

 

Thanks, Robert

 

 

OH WADDING ON TOP OF THE STARS YOU SAID FOR COMPRESSION.... ITS MONDAY Sorry! ANd Thanks!!

Edited August 11, 2009 by stug161

[mike_au]

Should I just bite the bullet and be broke with a good unit, or can I baby a cheap unit for six month or so?

 

Go scrounge around your local junk yard/scrap metal dealer/roadside cleanup and build a good, cheap one.

[Mumbles]

I make 5 and 6" shells, and I've lasted with a 3lb cheap rock tumbler for the last 6 years. It's not fast, and I only make BP in it. I use commercial for lift, and KP for break. I really only use home made BP for breaking canisters, both bigguns' and inserts. It's not an easy way to live, but it can be done.

[Arthur]

A mortar and pestle will make small amounts but for more than 10g batches get a mill! A cheap mill should cost less than $70 and is always cheaper than buying the bits.

 

A cheap rock tumbler will make a batch of comp about 1/3 to 1/5 of its rated rock tumbling capacity. A rubber drum is good for quietness.

[50AE]

And sometimes you can make a mill from junk parts for free. Mine cost me 0$, but maybe I'll have to pay 1$ for a belt

[Twotails]

A mortar and pestle will make small amounts but for more than 10g batches get a mill!

 

10g at a time? That varies, its dependent apon how much your Mortar and pestle can hold. I recived a mortar and pestle for christmas a few years back from my nana, it was like $50, and it was quite large, it can handle 100g batch easly, its made from marble, and(becouse i use lampblack along with a resin) it stains it black( i use an ajax and sodium bicarbonate scrub to get the residue out.) Well anyway, if your gonna spend $50+S&H, you might as well get ether a mill from E-bay, or UnitedNuclear(when in stock, there prices are somewhat fair) also, just found that they offer grinding media (steel, ceramic, or lead-antimony.)

[Seymour]

While larger batches can easily fit inside a mortar, it is generally reccomended to use smaller batches, because the grinding becomes considerably more efficient, giving you, potentially more powder of an equal quality in the same time.

[Bananaphone69]

Wait, mumbels, you haven't made your own ball mill?

[Mumbles]

Heh, I'll have to get some pictures of my franken-mill up. It is far too large for any reasonable manufacture(12lb BP at once). I made one, but the motor isn't up to snuff, and I haven't been able to come across a reasonably priced one since. I recently broke down and purchased a 1 kilo mill, as 200g at a time just doesn't cut it. The franken-mill will likely be retired until I start making 10 and 12" multibreak canisters. With my new mill I'll likely start making my own BP for lift and bursts again.

 

Anyone want to cut some brass for me?

[Updup]

And sometimes you can make a mill from junk parts for free. Mine cost me 0$, but maybe I'll have to pay 1$ for a belt

 

 

How about you just make a duck tape belt? works perfectly for me, or eletric tape, its got more grip

[KruseMissile]

if you buy an actual belt, then it will be able to hold up alot more and they are relatively cheap.

[Stockwood]

I have not made my mind up yet about which ball mill. So for now, I am doing everyting with a mortar/coffee grinder.

I've been using the wife's tumble drier as an improvised ball mill. It has a sensor to turn off the heat when there's no moisture, so no need to open the case. Wrap each jar in a towel and stuff it into a poly bag, and tie the top. This cuts down the noise and vibration. Max load is

3 Kg, and you have to reset the timer every 140 mins, but it's free.

[TheSidewinder]

Are you serious?!?!

 

 

If so, I sincerely hope that Dryer is outdoors, and well away from anything that could be damaged (including you) if it blows up.

[jm82792]

I don't think it's outside since it's his wife's and she probably uses it.

That doesn't sound like anything I'd like to be close to when it's on.

Edited November 22, 2009 by jm82792

[Stockwood]

Are you serious?!?!

If so, I sincerely hope that Dryer is outdoors, and well away from anything that could be damaged (including you) if it blows up.

Why would it blow up? Anyway it is outside, facing an open door and there is a hosepipe nearby.

I have separate jars for fuels and oxidisers (nitrates only). I would never ever mill a composition.

Seems safe enough to me.

[TheEskimo]

Lol. Due to the thread being titled "Can I make a lift powder with no ball mill", and you saying that you ball mill in a dryer used by the wife, we assumed that you were milling live BP comps in a dryer, in a house....Not individual chems. But still, you should get a real ball mill.

[Arthur]

Yes! Ball mill is cheaper than a divore lawyer! Look for a rubber barrel too, they are much quieter.

[Ericz]

It is possible with a mortar and pestle or something to grind it and you have to use willow Charcoal.

Normal regular BBQ Charcoal is 7 % moisterd.

grtz

[TheSidewinder]

Why would it blow up? Anyway it is outside, facing an open door and there is a hosepipe nearby.

I have separate jars for fuels and oxidisers (nitrates only). I would never ever mill a composition.

Seems safe enough to me.

 

Yeah, considering the thread title and discussion to this point, I'd bet that everyone reading this assumed you were using it to mill BP.

 

Given your clarification, that shouldn't be a problem at all. Interesting use of a home appliance. As long as the wife doesn't raise hell.

[Swede]

I'm going to come off as sounding like a pompous jerk... but oh well, here we go... PLEASE don't anyone take offense.

 

 

 

Pretty much everyone here is very handy, and I don't understand why ball mills are such a problem. It takes skill to paste up a shell, ram a rocket, affix a header, and do all the crafting things associated with pyro. It is within everyone's reach to make a fine ball mill with surplus parts. There are some very clever designs that use skateboard trucks and such, but I'm thinking about a standard, two-bar mill.

 

All you need are two shafts, a motor, two pulleys, one each for the driven shaft and one for the motor, four bearings, and some plywood. Everything except the motor can be found at a decent hardware store, anywhere in the world. Use 12mm or 1/2" to 16mm or 5/8" for the shafts, make them 2 feet or 2/3 meter each. With a single sheet of 3/4" or 20mm plywood, cut out a boxy shape and glue or screw it together. Mount the bearings. Mount the shafts and pulleys.

 

Mount the motor on a swinging platform which will allow the motor weight itself to tension the belt. The belt can be a car fan belt or better yet a section of linkable v-belt called "Power Twist" or "Duralink".

 

http://www.durabelt.com/images/linkvbelt.jpg

 

This stuff is awesome, and you can make any sized v-belt you need.

 

The bearings seem to give the most grief. They are called "Pillow blocks" and look like this:

 

http://www.hvacsurplussales.com/catalog/images/bearingpillow.jpg

 

Position them on the plywood ends so that the shafts are parallel. If you use slightly undersized lag bolts, you can drift the bearings slightly and correct for any lack of parallelism.

 

The difference between a "real" ball mill and a rock tumbler is astounding. I've gone through all the stages... rock tumbler, "Hobfir" yellow mill, and my homemade mill, and there is no comparison. The Hobfir mill works fine, but is a bit light. With a 1/3 to 1/2 hp, 115V 1-phase motor, you'll have no problems at all.

 

For the motor, look for a standard voltage, 1 phase motor. DO NOT buy a surplus 3-phase motor, which is cheap but will NOT work without a special 3-phase adapter. You can usually identify a 1-phase motor by the external start/run capacitor cannister on the body of the motor.

 

Here is a 1 phase motor:

http://www.tradevv.com/TradevvImage/productimages/Single-Phase-Capacitor-Start-Asynchronous-Electric-Motor-A3347c.jpg

 

A three phase motor is usually clean-bodied:

http://images.asia.ru/img/alibaba/photo/50115698/Asynchronous_Motor_Explosion_Isolating_Three_Phase.jpg

 

Don't mistake a square junction box on a 3P motor with a start/run capacitor cannister. If in doubt, ask the supplier, "1 phase or 3 phase?"

 

Get to it! Ball mills really seem to throw guys for a loop, and I'm not sure why. It is hard to do good pyrotechnics without a decent ball mill and media.

http://www.5bears.com/firew/bmblg07.jpg

[Mumbles]

I can't help but notice that rod in the bottom left hand corner of your mill. Is this a rod that attaches to a swing for the motor? It's hard to tell if it is connected to the motor platform.

[dagabu]

Nice tut Swede, we call it poly chain up here. I see that you have the same prefab ball mill I have, very nice for 1 gallon jars. I have a couple Harbor Freight rollers on brackets ($5.99 ea.) with a flat poly chain driven from a dryer motor via double sheave powers both rollers and driven by a Variac to 30 volts. Nice to change up the speed from 1000 rpm to only 20 rpm before the motor stalls.

 

D