What proportions of sugar-chlorate to a rocket?

[irazboubi]

I know that the best way to get a good mix powder is very fine ingredients.

See photo: chlorate is placed in the bowl and then crashed through the ball held by the glass bottle (this is the best way I found to reduce fine chlorate or any other product!)

 

Now I would like to know the proportions of sugar and chlorate to a rocket :

 

I know that mixing KNO3 / Sugar must 20g and 11g of KNO3 sugar, but for the KClO3 sugar I do not know. . .

I prefer to make the rocket KClO3 as KNO3 is much more expensive and it does me little remains.

Are you reliable percentages?

 

PS :Ask me if you want details on my method of mixing or any other information about my question !

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

First off, sugar to kno3 should be 65 KNO3 to 35 sugar .

 

second where do you get KClO3 cheaper than KNO3?!!

[irazboubi]

I buy KNO3 for 3 euros a jar of 200 grams in a gardening store and KClO3 costs only 15 euros 5 kg !

 

response to TYRONEEZEKIEL :

 

Thank you for the recipe that you give for KNO3-sugar mixture but these proportions are suitable for rockets?

 

-Do you know the recipe for KClO3 and sugar ?

 

PS: I have tested a method of melt KClO3 and sugar together, but this method is very unstable and the mixture does not trigger the rocket.

If you want I can post a video showing the failure of this process

 

thank you

[Miech]

Usually a mixture of 80 chlorate and 20 random fuel is near the stochiometric ratio. For rockets you probably want to have a ratio somewhat heavy on the fuel side, because the fuel doesn't combust completely and to keep the burn rate within acceptable limits. Concerning chlorate rockets, I only have experience with chlorate/paraffin/charcoal rockets so far.

 

Take care with chlorate/sugar mixtures. They are very sensitive to impact and friction, and were actually used to trigger land mines for that reason.

[irazboubi]

Hi,

 

Yes, I am especially careful that the powder that I make is as fine as flour, very fast and sensitive!

 

-So the proper mixture for a rocket would be 80% for KClO3 and 20% for sugar?

 

However my chlorate is not pure: it contains 40% of unwanted elements because that's chlorate for weeding.

I think 40% of unwanted elements float: Can you tell me if I'll drying after chlorate soaked in alcohol to filter out 40% of waste in it?

 

how to dry KClO3 ? ( KClO3 strongly absorbs moisture! ! ! )

 

 

Thanks

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

40% contamination is very bad. You must have purer product to be safe, and make something properly.

 

Dry KClO3 in a food dehydrator, or in an oven at 110 degrees celsius or 250 fahrenheit. Again!

 

 

MAKE SURE YOU PURIFY IT!!!

[Swede]

Research the technique known as recrystallization. If you truly have potassium rather than sodium chlorate, and if the contamination is highly soluble in water (likely if it is a gardening product), then recrystallizing should take it to better than 96% pure, if I were to guess, with loss of only a small amount of the chlorate.

 

If the chlorate is sold as a weed killer, it might be sodium chlorate, which cannot be recrystallized easily. Are you sure it is a potassium salt? Potassium chlorate is NOT particularly hygroscopic (moisture absorbing) whereas sodium does absorb moisture more aggressively.

[irazboubi]

Hi,

 

Thank you for your information about filtering my chlorate: this is the only thing to do to remove the impurities from my product.

 

However, there is a problem:

 

Once recrystallized chlorate will retain its moisture as it is one of its properties.

 

I thought of chlorate with dry calcium chloride anhydrous, but I do not have!

 

Do you know a method for drying once recrystallized chlorate ?

 

Thanks

[irazboubi]

SORRY !

 

Please ignore the following sentence that I wrote:

 

I thought of chlorate with dry calcium chloride anhydrous, but I do not have!

 

I replace it by :

 

I thought to dry it with calcium dichloride but I don't have this compound.

[Mumbles]

You can dry it with heat, as already suggested.

 

If you do in fact have sodium chlorate, and not potassium chlorate, it will be relatively useless.

 

Also, you really should be doing some more research. Chlorate and sugar mixtures are notoriously sensitive. You probably should be starting with safer things, as you give the very distinct impression you are just starting out.

[Ralph]

it is possible to convert sodium chlorate into potassium chlorate via a double decomposition with potassium chloride though your yield will not be particularly high as potassium chlorate is still soluble in water so not entirely useless but with out conversion it cant really be used

[irazboubi]

hello, thank you I understood the danger of chlorate: I rather use it to make firecrackers.

 

There is plenty of KNO3 So I make my rockets with this mix because this powder is more reliable and less sensitive!

 

Proportions: 65% KNO3 and 35% sugar are they good for a rocket ?

 

Thank you in advance

[Seymour]

Those are one of the standard ratios for Potassium nitrate/Sugar fuels.

 

Once you have your technique correct, you should have rockets flying high.

Edited July 9, 2009 by Seymour

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

Yes.. For a rocket, I would use 75/35/5 KNO3/Sucrose/Red Iron Oxide

 

The catalyst greatly increases burn rate, thus more pressure in your tube, creating more thrust.

 

Use the recrystallized method. It is very very reliable

[irazboubi]

Hi,

Yes, I have a technique of pinching a node of bamboo in a thick cardboard tube: the content is then classical

Here's a little drawing of my method (the problem I encountered was that the cardboard tube is very compact and heavy (more than 5mm thick). As I put a mixture chlorate-sugar (unreliable) rocket not taking off!

I think the remake the same prototype but with the mixture: 65% KNO3 and 35% sugar ( with a powder as fine as flour (mixed by hand ^ ^)

 

What do you think about this prototype?

 

Another question:

 

I will use a chinese visco fuse of 1.8mm for the trigger: what diameter hole do you push for the gas of the rocket?

 

PS: I use a node of bamboo for the engine of the rocket as this type of nozzle is easily adaptable to tubes!

The wings were not represented in the diagram.

 

Give me your opinion on my prototype !

 

Thanks !

[Swede]

irazboubi, you are getting ahead of yourself. The very first thing you need to do, if you want to use chlorate, is to determine if you have potassium or sodium chlorate.

 

If you have sodium chlorate, it needs to be converted to potassium chlorate with the use of KCl salt. The next step is recrystallization to purify. If converting sodium to potassium, you can sort of do both in one step. IF IT IS SODIUM CHLORATE plus junk, create a saturated solution of the product. Add a slight surplus of potassium chloride solution, also saturated. The difficult part is knowing how much KCl to use.

 

You should immediately see white crystals of potassium chlorate form. Filter and save the xtals. In the filter, wash the xtals with a bit of ice cold water. Spread to dry. It should be usable potassium chlorate when dry, although with significant losses overall.

 

Potassium chlorate does not form a hydrate. The crystals you get, once thoroughly dried, can be used, or it can be recrystallized again with the loss of another 15% for a purer product.

 

I tend to agree with Mumbles, this is not beginner territory you are working in.

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

Again, true words. Pyro is not a very cheap hobby depending on what is made. If its not affordable to do correctly, it is most likely not a good idea.