derekroolz Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I heard that you can make your own charcoal out of toilet paper and other inexpensive items using a soda can and foil and fire...I understand charcoal is made from the substance being burned with the absense of oxygen. So does anyone know how to make charcoal, because I cant find very much info on it so go ahead and post your ways of making charcoal. The primary use of the charcoal will be for black powder so any proven materials for charcoal for BP would be great! Have Fun, Be Safe!!!
Bonny Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I heard that you can make your own charcoal out of toilet paper and other inexpensive items using a soda can and foil and fire...I understand charcoal is made from the substance being burned with the absense of oxygen. So does anyone know how to make charcoal, because I cant find very much info on it so go ahead and post your ways of making charcoal. The primary use of the charcoal will be for black powder so any proven materials for charcoal for BP would be great! Have Fun, Be Safe!!! You could start by reading some (of the many) black powder threads here. You'll find a ton of information on charcoal and BP.
Swede Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 (edited) It is not hard to make charcoal, and although I've never tried TP, I suspect it'd make some reactive charcoal. Guys have done it with newspaper, too. Making charcoal - get one of those empty paint cans from Home Depot. Put your material inside, hammer shut. With an awl, poke several holes in the lid, or sides. I'd say for a gallon paint can, about a half-dozen holes maybe 1/8" would suffice. Build a fire. A BBQ charcoal fire is fine. When the coals are red, spread out the coals, lay the can on its side, and scrape the coals against the can. In a few minutes you'll see gasses jetting out of the holes. These gasses are flammable and will light. At the peak of the process, the gas jets can be a foot long, and roar a little bit. Keep an eye on the gas jets... when they start to subside, you are almost done. When to pull it is debatable, but I'd yank it when the jets no longer sustain combustion and are very weak. If the gassing subsides to zero, I'd say definitely pull it. Others may have better ideas. Occasionally, during the run, rotate the can through 90 degrees so the interior sees an overall even heat. It's better to have too many holes than not enough. If the holes are too few/too small, the lid could pop, or worse, the can could explode - not cool. There is a plastic lining in the can which will char, but it's no big deal. A single paint can will work for a few runs, but it eventually will corrode and fail. Paint cans can also hold cut pine, like 1" X 1", pretty much anything. Good luck, I'm curious to see how TP does. Pick a TP with no dyes, no perfume, the cheapest generic crap you can find. Edited July 7, 2009 by Swede
derekroolz Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 You could start by reading some (of the many) black powder threads here. You'll find a ton of information on charcoal and BP. I know but, we should try to keep those threads about there topic in using BP though, And try to have this thread for the specific use of making your own charcoal.
50AE Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I've sometimes made small batches in charcoal when in a hurry, just for testing. I've done them using toilet paper and the final product (BP) and (H3) both performed great. But I can't assure you that your toilet paper will work as well as mine. And it seems expensive for big batches.
derekroolz Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 It is not hard to make charcoal, and although I've never tried TP, I suspect it'd make some reactive charcoal. Guys have done it with newspaper, too. Making charcoal - get one of those empty paint cans from Home Depot. Put your material inside, hammer shut. With an awl, poke several holes in the lid, or sides. I'd say for a gallon paint can, about a half-dozen holes maybe 1/8" would suffice. Build a fire. A BBQ charcoal fire is fine. When the coals are red, spread out the coals, lay the can on its side, and scrape the coals against the can. In a few minutes you'll see gasses jetting out of the holes. These gasses are flammable and will light. At the peak of the process, the gas jets can be a foot long, and roar a little bit. Keep an eye on the gas jets... when they start to subside, you are almost done. When to pull it is debatable, but I'd yank it when the jets no longer sustain combustion and are very weak. If the gassing subsides to zero, I'd say definitely pull it. Others may have better ideas. Occasionally, during the run, rotate the can through 90 degrees so the interior sees an overall even heat. It's better to have too many holes than not enough. If the holes are too few/too small, the lid could pop, or worse, the can could explode - not cool. There is a plastic lining in the can which will char, but it's no big deal. A single paint can will work for a few runs, but it eventually will corrode and fail. Paint cans can also hold cut pine, like 1" X 1", pretty much anything. Good luck, I'm curious to see how TP does. Pick a TP with no dyes, no perfume, the cheapest generic crap you can find. Wow what a quick response thank you so much...so these combustable gasses that shoot out of the can will igntite if there is an open flame...would this be bad or should tha gasses stay unlit...sorry but i have never heard of TP...could you make a topic on that
derekroolz Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 I've sometimes made small batches in charcoal when in a hurry, just for testing. I've done them using toilet paper and the final product (BP) and (H3) both performed great. But I can't assure you that your toilet paper will work as well as mine. And it seems expensive for big batches. thank you would you say the final product is easier to grind down that using other charcoal such as store bought
irazboubi Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Hi, yes, normally it should be different temperatures for blackpowder following: powder hunting : distillation at 300 ° Cpowder war: 3 500 ° C These techniques are very difficult to achieve, not classic coal distilled works very well!For the powder very fine, there are two ways to proceed: coffee grinder or pestle (very long to do but finer powder!) I hope that answers your question Bye
derekroolz Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 Hi, yes, normally it should be different temperatures for blackpowder following: powder hunting : distillation at 300 ° Cpowder war: 3 500 ° C These techniques are very difficult to achieve, not classic coal distilled works very well!For the powder very fine, there are two ways to proceed: coffee grinder or pestle (very long to do but finer powder!) I hope that answers your question Bye it does, but could you expand on "powder hunting and powder war"...what is the difference in the overall product and what is done differently.
Arthur Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 My mate here in the UK gets a pallet and cuts the planks free, these he cuts into set lengths to fit in his charcoal drum, and chops the sticks up to about 1/2in square. All the lumps from the pallet get thrown into a large steel drum 205litre /45 gallon and lit his coaling drum is a steel drum from 50 kilos of perc with one half inch hole. He lights a foot depth of lumpy scrap timber then drops the charcoal tin in and stuffs more rubbish wood round the sides, He calls it done when there is nothing coming out of the hole, blocks the hole with clay while it cools. Pallets are free so pine charcoal is the cost of two tins! Most discarded building timber is pine of some sort. I have some pine charcoal that is stick shaped, ten TURNS of the mill jar and it is about 100mesh. 10 minutes in the mill and it is airfloat ready to use. that was just old pallet!
derekroolz Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 My mate here in the UK gets a pallet and cuts the planks free, these he cuts into set lengths to fit in his charcoal drum, and chops the sticks up to about 1/2in square. All the lumps from the pallet get thrown into a large steel drum 205litre /45 gallon and lit his coaling drum is a steel drum from 50 kilos of perc with one half inch hole. He lights a foot depth of lumpy scrap timber then drops the charcoal tin in and stuffs more rubbish wood round the sides, He calls it done when there is nothing coming out of the hole, blocks the hole with clay while it cools. Pallets are free so pine charcoal is the cost of two tins! Most discarded building timber is pine of some sort. I have some pine charcoal that is stick shaped, ten TURNS of the mill jar and it is about 100mesh. 10 minutes in the mill and it is airfloat ready to use. that was just old pallet! awsome sounds great...does anyone know what type of charcoal professionals use in there bp
Arthur Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Charcoal is one of the biggest and most important variables in pyro. Pine, willow make good fast powders, Balsa and grapevine seem to make very fast powders. Straw makes dangerously fast and sensitive powder -DONT go there. BBQ lumpwood makes dead slow powder, BBQ briquettes don't make powder! No-one will tell you their commercial recipies, but even if they give bits away the fine detail matters a LOT. mesh size and size distribution matter, and are not often quoted on formulation lists! Also see what you want! If you make fast BP then it will propel or break shells, but it will cato rockets where a slower powder can be more use.
Bananaphone69 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 "I know but, we should try to keep those threads about there topic in using BP though, And try to have this thread for the specific use of making your own charcoal." Check this out. Its like God was listening in or something... http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?s...5&hl=willowhttp://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?s...amp;hl=charcoalhttp://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?s...amp;hl=charcoalhttp://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?s...amp;hl=charcoal On the other hand, TP charcoal might indeed merit its own thread depending on your testing results, so I await them eagerly. Also, derekroolz, this page might shed some light on your question:http://pyroguide.com/index.php?title=Charc...itability_Table To the right of the different woods, it tells popular applications and companies that use the specific types of wood. For example, GOEX uses maple.
Ralph Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 It is not hard to make charcoal, and although I've never tried TP, I suspect it'd make some reactive charcoal. Guys have done it with newspaper, too. Making charcoal - get one of those empty paint cans from Home Depot. Put your material inside, hammer shut. With an awl, poke several holes in the lid, or sides. I'd say for a gallon paint can, about a half-dozen holes maybe 1/8" would suffice. Build a fire. A BBQ charcoal fire is fine. When the coals are red, spread out the coals, lay the can on its side, and scrape the coals against the can. In a few minutes you'll see gasses jetting out of the holes. These gasses are flammable and will light. At the peak of the process, the gas jets can be a foot long, and roar a little bit. Keep an eye on the gas jets... when they start to subside, you are almost done. When to pull it is debatable, but I'd yank it when the jets no longer sustain combustion and are very weak. If the gassing subsides to zero, I'd say definitely pull it. Others may have better ideas. Occasionally, during the run, rotate the can through 90 degrees so the interior sees an overall even heat. It's better to have too many holes than not enough. If the holes are too few/too small, the lid could pop, or worse, the can could explode - not cool. There is a plastic lining in the can which will char, but it's no big deal. A single paint can will work for a few runs, but it eventually will corrode and fail. Paint cans can also hold cut pine, like 1" X 1", pretty much anything. Good luck, I'm curious to see how TP does. Pick a TP with no dyes, no perfume, the cheapest generic crap you can find. i disagree with the holes a if you are watching your charcoal and suddenly the gasses start coming out at high pressure it will become pretty obvious that you should take it off and than you can take it off and make another hole put a few to many holes and the wood at nearest the holes will quickly turn into ash having a little bit of internal pressure ensures almost no oxygen is in the can after a bit I personally like to use a fire pit which is at least 1/2 the depth of the diameter of the paint tin or drum it makes truing and stuff very easy especially with some of the big batches I make
50AE Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 I prefer puncturing more holes or a big hole before letting the can into the fire, instead of removing it from the flames and doing it later. That's much more dangerous, the can is hot and you have to open it. And this because of a high pressure ? It won't be nice to see the cover pop, near you, spreading tiny pieces of charcoal everywhere.
Bonny Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 You could really have as many holes as you want, when cooking, as long as gasses or smoke is coming OUT of each hole it will be fine. A small amount of ash is not the end of the world. There are some that even cook charcoal in open retorts and report good results. When I was first starting out I even washed the ashes off with water and then dried the charcoal before grinding...worked just fine.
derekroolz Posted July 8, 2009 Author Posted July 8, 2009 I prefer puncturing more holes or a big hole before letting the can into the fire, instead of removing it from the flames and doing it later. That's much more dangerous, the can is hot and you have to open it. And this because of a high pressure ? It won't be nice to see the cover pop, near you, spreading tiny pieces of charcoal everywhere. I must agree with you. Something I once expirienced....not fun!!!
50AE Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 What I'm doing now is charring A4 paper from my old school works. Anyway, I have to throw them, so why not use them ? I hope they make good charcoal.
Swede Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) What I'm doing now is charring A4 paper from my old school works. Anyway, I have to throw them, so why not use them ? I hope they make good charcoal. Hahaha! Very appropriate use for old homework from hated classes! I think when I die, I want someone to turn me into charcoal. I'd probably make slow and grumpy BP though. Too much phosphorus, and the alcohol would interfere. Maybe I could be a good charcoal streamer or something. Edited July 9, 2009 by Swede
50AE Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 The funny thing is that I can still see the writings on the charcoal. Paper charcoal has also the advantage to be milled faster.However, it's not as dense as the wood charcoal.
derekroolz Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 The funny thing is that I can still see the writings on the charcoal. Paper charcoal has also the advantage to be milled faster.However, it's not as dense as the wood charcoal. so do think wood charcoal or paper charcoal works better
TheSidewinder Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Well.... "Better" is a relative term. From what I've read, BP made with a good charcoal like Yellow Pine or Willow will be the "best", but that depends on having a good charcoal to start with. Paper can vary *widely* in its composition, so repeatability might be a problem. And there are the additives. If it's printed newspaper, there's the ink, etc. That said, you should experiment a little. Some have reported excellent results using newsprint. But others have had the opposite result. If you're just starting out, it's probably going to be easiest (and give you repeatable results) to use a known wood charcoal.
derekroolz Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 Well.... "Better" is a relative term. From what I've read, BP made with a good charcoal like Yellow Pine or Willow will be the "best", but that depends on having a good charcoal to start with. Paper can vary *widely* in its composition, so repeatability might be a problem. And there are the additives. If it's printed newspaper, there's the ink, etc. That said, you should experiment a little. Some have reported excellent results using newsprint. But others have had the opposite result. If you're just starting out, it's probably going to be easiest (and give you repeatable results) to use a known wood charcoal. Sorry about that I meant a comparrison of pine charcoal, but i see how the paper could very well change in the repeatability of the quality. Thank you though. I will expiriement with some stuff.
50AE Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I have a question about charcoal in general.Most of the time, mine seems to not be completely black chared, there are slightly brown pieces. They are still easy to crush, but brown.Here is a pic : http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9450/dsc04532s.th.jpg I think it would work, because the author from the musketeer.ch says that brownish charcoal is more flammable and better. I wonder if it isn't too reactive to make something terrible like cocoa powder though.
deadman Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I wouldn't call cocoa powder terrible. I'm not sure if you have the term down correct. If this is an assumption I'm sorry. Cocoa powder sometimes I called brown powder is brown in appearance because it is just KNO3 and Charcoal. Not necessarily because the charcoal is brown instead of black. If you are having trouble with your BP remember that 75:15:10 is just a guideline and most do alter it in accordance with what they are working with. I really hope I'm not taking your post the wrong way and offending you. For some reason I feel like I might.....
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