My New Discovery!

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

Today, I was surfing the web for formulas. I saw pyrocreations.com had a bizarre comp that was just

 

NH4ClO4...........75

Sculpey Clay......25

 

 

I thought.. this stuff is whack.. Whatever. But for some freak luck reason, I had a box of sculpey clay behind my magazine that my dad had given me to make experimental nozzles. I knew that wouldnt work due to temperatures. Anyway, so I whipped up a 10g batch of this stuff in my M&P by incorporating the AP into the clay. It turned into what seemed to be like a hydrated salt because of the clay making the comp barely stick together. It was enough to form a ball when squeezed. So I then took it to my yard and lit it.

 

 

What a beautiful Red!! WOW I was shocked. It burned rather slow which was much better in my opinion since I got to bask in the glory of the crimson light.

 

it actually was a more so orange-red. about 70/30 red/orange.

 

I held my torch over the very little remains, and noticed that the propane burned green!!! SCORE!!! This means CHLORINE!! HOORAY..

 

Not only is this stuff a potential binder, but also a fuel, and a chlorine donor..

 

I then made a batch of

 

NH4ClO4,.......17.5

Sculpey...........5

CuCO3............2

 

 

This time it burned much faster, and had a deeper blue that any other carbonate blue Ive seen. But it did leave a bit of "ash" left over similar when too much parlon is used. It had the CuCl campfire blue as it died out. What a great sight! I held the torch over it again, and still the tell tale sign of chlorine was present.

 

I thought that it could be the AP making the chlorine, but im not quite sure.

 

I plan to do much much more testing, since this iis much cheaper and time efficient than measuring several chemicals and binding etc..

 

Im sure that this isnt practical, but this may be a very good experimental thing to keep testing.

 

also, i bet this might may a good rocket fuel since it made a good "whoosh" sound burning open, and it can be pressed very smoothly, and hold its shape while being impact friendly unlike BP which will crack on impact. I would normally do more testing on this, but as its almost 1am and there is work in the morning

[Mumbles]

Sculpy contains significant proportions of PVC.

 

http://cdn.dickblick.com/msds/DBH_33902XXXX.pdf

[Swede]

That's cool stuff. I also enjoy the kind of experiments you are doing, and have messed around a bit with Sculpey and similar PVC clays. Sculpey works in a variety of comps, but it is pretty expensive stuff, and I think you could create an equivalent comp using PVC powder, THF/Acetone (or just use PVC pipe cleaner or cement). But this method would probably be a bit more gooey than the packaged clays.

 

If you wanted to thin the sculpey a bit, you could possibly knead in some acetone or MEK, but the drying might create voids, which would be CATOstrophic in a rocket. (sorry, bad pun)

 

I guess you could ultimately consider it as a sort of binder/fuel for a variety of pyrotechnics. The one thing I noticed was that the burn speed was a bit slow, but that could be worked on by varying the oxidizer(s) or other added fuels.

[optimus]

Cool stuff, though not exactly a new discovery

 

Would be interested to hear how your future experiments with it go, especially if you try to make rockets with it.

[a_bab]

I bet the "fillers" in this sculpey clay are mainly calcium carbonate, this explaining well the reddish colour of the formula.

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

I think it must be calcium because of the orange color when the flame was at its fullest.

I think rockets would be perfect, since this appears to be ram-safe since it is somewhat gooey. The only thing is to get the grain to stick together. Im wanting something like APCP how the grains are somewhat flexible and wont break against shock, but is able to hold its shape.

[stormyweathers]

Is sculpey just any type of clay?

or is it a specific kind?

[Mumbles]

It is a specific kind. Most any other clay will not give anything that resembles something flammable.

[Swede]

Sculpey is just one brand of oven-bake curing "polymer" clay. I'm pretty sure they are all variations on the same theme. I've messed with Fimo, Sculpey, a couple others, and they all vary a little bit in texture and makeup.

 

If you go into a craft store, you'll see a wide variety of them, all of them unfortunately a bit expensive.

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

I have had a great breakthrough with this stuff. since its not a known and established formula, Ill post it here for now, If it is deemed worthy, Ill post it in the comps section.

 

Here is a formula that I made that is awesome for rockets! It is completely ram safe, and needs no separate binding techniques since the clay already hardens itself.

 

 

Ammonium Perchlorate 8

Sculpey Clay............... 2

Black Copper Oxide ...... .5

Magnalium ................. .5

 

Grind all chems together in a mortar and pestle. The clay will take a bit to incorporate, but it will.

 

I still have a bit of tweaking to do, but this stuff ROAARS! under pressure.

Just ram as if making a cored black powder rocket. This stuff likes to have a bit smaller nozzle.

It has similar properties to APCP. Unpressurized, and this stuff burns kinda slow, when pressurized, this stuff is EPIC!

 

Ill make a video of it soon.

 

 

PS. Im also thinking about adjusting the MgAl more because I think it may clog the nozzle a bit.

Edited June 28, 2009 by TYRONEEZEKIEL

[Swede]

Is the magnalium for visual effects alone, or do you think it adds any to the power? What mesh of magnalium are you using? Have you tried thinning the sculpey with THF, MEK, acetone, or PVC pipe cleaner?

 

I'm tempted to replicate your experiment using potassium chlorate rather than perchlorate, and PVC powder. Very small scale at first to check for sensitivity and compatibilities. The potential exists to perhaps have a castable fuel. If it dries through in a reasonable time period, without voids or gross shrinkage, it might work.

 

Very interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Swede

[Swede]

TE, I did an experiment along your lines, except I substituted PVC powder for the sculpey, and turned it into a slurry similar to the polyurethane glue experiments, using CPVC pipe cleaner, which is mostly acetone + tetrahydrofuran, both PVC solvents.

 

I made two batches, the only difference being the magnalium content. Batch 1 was

 

Perc: 75

PVC: 25

CuO: +12.5

 

Batch 2 had an added +12.5 350 mesh magnalium. Enough PVC cleaner was added to make a syrup consistency. The PVC powder dissolved nicely, and while the perchlorate does not dissolve, the individual grains of the perc (flour consistency) are no doubt surrounded and encased by dissolved PVC.

 

This was poured into strings on a piece of foil, and are now drying. It handled much better than the polyurethane glue, and shows no signs of expansion, as the glue did. Viscosity about like epoxy.

 

I'm interested to see how this stuff does, with the thought of having a simple, castable rocket fuel. Really the only difference is the use of PVC rather than sculpey. The dried powder (before addition of solvent) burned briskly, and the CuO helped a bit, as well as added a blue/green cast to the flame.

 

I'll cut the cured fuel and take a look under the microscope to see if it gassed or created voids; then, time to burn a bit.

Edited June 30, 2009 by Swede

[qwezxc12]

snip...

 

Ammonium Perchlorate 8

Sculpey Clay............... 2

Black Copper Oxide ...... .5

Magnalium ................. .5

 

Grind all chems together in a mortar and pestle....

 

TE,

 

I'm very interested in your experiments in what is essentially home-brewed APCP (Ammonium Perchlorate / Composite Propellant)... very cool!

 

HOWEVER, I have to say that your direction to grind all chems together can be very dangerous... you will be applying pressure and friction to an oxidizer, catalyst and fuel all mixed together... this is how people get hurt / killed.

 

Please grind or mill your dry chems SEPARATELY, screen or diaper them together, then incorporate the Sculpey. Or use a solvent like Swede to assist in the mixing. We'd all like to see you remain alive and intact to continue your experiments.

 

Cheers.

Edited June 30, 2009 by qwezxc12

[Swede]

I do have to agree a bit on the mortar and pestle - I've always hated that tool for a number of reasons. TyroneEzekiel, I like your experiments very much, and I think you've put a lot of thought and effort into them, just be careful!

 

The test comp dried in a matter of hours, and burns vigorously, with the Cu adding color and probably accelerating it a bit. The magnalium added visual effect, but I didn't see an acceleration in the burn. I'll do a small batch with sculpey as well as PVC and compare the two. Sculpey may have unknown fuels that behave differently from PVC powder. I think the interesting thing from a pyrotechnic standpoint is again, like the poly glue thing, you have a pourable composition that can find application in different ways. The PVC formulation behaves better than poly glue, and importantly is far cheaper.

 

The next step is to cast some into a 1/4" tube, no nozzle, and see how it behaves. Epoxy + oxidizer has been around for years... this might be a simple and cheap way to get similar results.

 

Edit: I tested some more of the dried PVC comp. Yesterday, it had a "soft" consistency, like hard taffy. Today, it snapped like a butter cookie. I found it to be fairly sensitive to impact. A tiny piece under a hammer, on steel, snapped powerfully with very modest hammer strikes. Compared to another perchlorate comp, Bleser KP #1, it was a bit more sensitive, but not outrageously so. In my limited experience, all perchlorate comps seem to snap nicely under a hammer. Concrete doesn't work well, a block of steel is best. I REALLY need a drop rig.

 

TE I have to apologize for the thread theft. I do like this sort of experimentation and I tend to get carried away.

Edited July 2, 2009 by Swede

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

No, please do experiment. You aren't hogging the thread. I only hand ground just to incorporate into the clay I didn't apply much pressure, and I do appreciate the concern. No other method would really work save for a kitchen-aid mixer, but then again, I'm only making about 5g of this at a time. I would imagine a few things needed to be changed if using direct pvc since there are more auxillary fuels in the sculpy. I have actually thinned it using acetone, not dissolved, but it did help with blending. A sort of knock off pingpong nc lacquer.

 

Swede, this stuff unpressurized doesn't burn too quick. So coring may have to be studied. I am very big into rocketry, and make apcp frequently. I use the r-45 based stuff.

[Swede]

My cast motors are still drying - it's going to take some time - but for fun I rammed a 70:30 perchlorate:PVC (+ CuO) bottle rocket with no core, no nozzle, using the dry powder. Not enough oomph in this configuration, but the flame was quite pretty.

[psyco_1322]

This surely looks like a fuel that should be pressed, NOT RAMMED!!! That mix looks like it would be pretty reactive to being beat on.

[Swede]

I used incorrect terminology. It was gently pressed and not hammered. For some stupid reason I think of ramming as a hydraulic process, and BP rockets are hammered or malleted.

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

I like that terminology better personally swede. Yeah. I think that the CuO may not be the best burn rate catalyst for this setup, but the color it imparts is perfect! Try using an endburn with a nozzle 1/4 the size of the diameter. It really likes to be pressurized to do its thang!

[stormyweathers]

i tried both of these comps using a mortar and pestle,

however it seemed the ratio of sculpey was too low.

the powder would not incorporate by hand either [i used gloves].

 

when i find the time i will definitely try again with the acetone as a solvent.

 

because i got impatient, i added a small amount [~2 g or less] of sculpey to a 25 gram batch of it, just to get all the powder incorporated.

 

the comps burned loud, slow, and fairly hot [at least 660 C to melt through aluminum]

 

i must say they were quite good looking too, definitely worth doing again.

 

 

 

 

the blue was pretty cool looking, except it only appeared at the bottom of the flame, and the middle and top were orange red, like a normal flame

 

does anybody know why this would happen?

[Mumbles]

Red is indicative of not having enough fuel present, or too much oxygen. They have same overall effect and cause. Not enough chlorine could do it too.

[NightHawkInLight]

Red is indicative of not having enough fuel present, or too much oxygen. They have same overall effect and cause. Not enough chlorine could do it too.

I recall a particular batch of dextrin that gave my nitrate stars a red tint...I was new enough into pyro at the time to not realize the significance of a nitrate and no strontium based red so I never looked further into it. I'm not to sure how that relates to what you're talking about, it just stirred my memory.

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

Yeah.. The ratios are right.. It is supposed to be a very weak dough. It really does seem a bit crumbly. But I also use milled AP.

 

As for the Red. I believe there is too much oxygen present. I think I may add a bit of Hexamine to the blue in order to balance the fuel out. As for lack of chlorine mumbles, I really doubt it since both parts of the comp are both chlorine donors.

[pillyg]

could i use KNO3 instead of AP?

[WSM]

could i use KNO3 instead of AP?

 

 

Hi pillyg,

 

I don't think so, either because of the lower oxygen availability or slower reaction of nitrates. An iron oxide catalyst might help, though. If you try it, please report back to us here and let us know what you see. Another thing to try (besides an iron oxide catalyst) is some potassium benzoate in the sculpy/potassium nitrate mix. A little potassium benzoate should speed things up somewhat. Again, let us know your observations. Thanks.

 

The "red" flame coloration is due to Ca⁺⁺ in the sculpy. Actually, the calcium spectra gives a deep red-orange when enough chlorine is present. Some have made beautiful (but slow burning) orange color stars with sculpy. Enjoy!

 

WSM