An Aluminum Powder question. (Not for flash)

[Dyn Dia Pyr]

Hello. My story goes like this:

My class is studying plate tectonics and we have gotten to the volcano section. I have an "A" in the class, but our permanent substitute is offering everyone a chance at extra credit. The option I've chosen is to make a PowerPoint presentation and build a volcano (worth twenty point total). I know how I'm going to get iron oxide already. I'll be putting steel wool into a bucket of bleach and then I'll add some vinegar. (Does anyone know the correct ratio? On wikipedia it says a 2:1 ratio, but I'm not sure if they were saying two parts bleach to one part vinegar or vice versa. The quote is "A more effective way is to mix bleach with fine steel wool. The reaction is quick. Adding vineger after mixing the steel wool and bleach together in a 2:1 ratio greatly increases the reaction speed and rust is produced instantly however the vineger and bleach (even in the presence of iron) produces toxic chlorine gas.")

 

My main question is that I'm trying to get aluminum that is a good enough quality for thermite, but I don't have enough time to order some. What method do you guys recommend? I don't have a coffee grinder, so I can't grind aluminum foil that way and buying Etch-a-Sketches would not yield enough aluminum to be cost effective. There aren't any paint stores that sell aluminum nearby, so I can't buy it as a pigment. Are soda cans pure enough to grind? Will the paint or inner coating affect a thermite reaction? Please give me any suggestions you can.

 

Thank you for reading this,

Nick

 

 

[Another thing I had thought of was to buy something made from aluminum with a zinc coating. If I used HCl, I could get rid of the zinc. This will make aluminum chloride. How would you remove the latter part of the compund to get pure aluminum?]

[delta_echo]

Can't help you out on your aluminum problem, but you may also want to consider just using ammonium dichromate. Using this may also enable you to perform a live demonstration in the classroom. Here's a site with some vids of it: http://www.angelo.edu/faculty/kboudrea/dem...ano/volcano.htm

[Mumbles]

I have no idea what thermite has anything to do with volcanos, but whatever. You could just stick with vinegar/NaHCO3. I would hardly see thermite as being safe to do indoors without lots of sand and a glass protective case.

 

Pop cans are too hard to grind, and are contaminated. The only pure Al part of a can is the tabs, thus why people often ask you to collect them. The tops and bottoms would be good enough. I would probably try to find some Al rod or something at a hardware store to grind. Looking for old motor parts is also an option. The blender method with water, oil, or table salt would probably yield suitable particle size.

 

As far as the Aluminum chloride to Aluminum metal, it's not worth the work or cost to get the metal. The only semi-viable way would be add Mg. If you get Mg, you might as well just grind that up and use that to make your thermite.

[ewest]

Like Mumbles said, you can buy an aluminum rod at the hardware store and just file some off with a metal file. I’m not sure that would be fine enough for Thermite though

 

You also said you don't have a coffee grinder, but why not just go buy one? They're about $10-$15 and any other way you try to get Aluminum will cost at least that much unless you just really need to do this cheaply.

 

A third way is to ball mill some Aluminum foil with steel balls (kids rock tumblers work great). If you do, don’t ever use that jar or steel balls to grind anything else unless you know for sure that it won’t react to any latent Aluminum in the jar.

[aquaman]

I would try to stay away from thermite for the volcanoe. It is just to hot and will melt/burn whatever matierial that you're making the volcanoe out of. If you want fire and sparks stick with a fountain or something like that. But the easiest and less dangerous would be the baking soda and vinegar way as mumbles suggested.

[Dyn Dia Pyr]

Thanks for all of the information everyone. Unfortunately, I've recently found that I won't be able to do this at school. But the info you guys gave me is really helpful, so I appreciate that.

 

Delta- Thanks, but I won't be able to use explosives. I'll keep that in mind for future times though.

 

Mumbles- The thermite would be like lava, hence the volcano project. Sorry I wasn't clear on that. I'd be doing this outside with my classmates and teacher all backed up at least 30 feet, with a large bucket of sand nearby. As for the aluminum gathering, I'll most likely take your advice and get an aluminum rod. If I had a spare blender, I'd consider the water/oil/table salt method. I'll keep an eye out for a cheap one. Thanks, I'll be sure to stay away from trying to convert AlCl3 to Al.

 

Ewest- Whenever I make this, I'll probably go with the rod. If I get some money though, I'll probably look into a coffee grinder or ball mill. Thanks you.

 

Aquaman- I doubt I have time for a fountain. I don't really have many chemicals. I haven't had the time to make them from household stuff or the money to buy them. I don't have a job (14 years old), so I don't have an income and I don't want to ask my parents for money. Thanks for the ideas though!

 

 

So in conclusion, I'll probably stick with baking soda and vinegar. Oh well. Thanks for all of your help!

 

-Nick

[iv81]

I hear dropping mentos in soda works pretty well.

[ltf]

In my country you can find Al shreds at the welder (the guy that makes frames and stuff for windows).

You can also find them neer athe that are using Al.

If some of my words are not correct please let me know it will just help me.

[PangleMince]

Aluminum powder? Sciencemadness says foil and alcohol in a blender for a day or two.

 

A tip for chlorine free rust: Fine steel wool and Hydrogen peroxide. Add a pinch of salt and it will heat up bubble and rust instantly. When its done add some more peroxide. repeat 2 or 3 times and voila!

[DeAdFX]

Half assed response....

 

If you are bent on wowing the crowd I would visit any sort of local paint shop. They might carry Aluminum powder under the name of 420 West (or something along the lines) either that use potassium nitrate and sugar with little bits of charcoal added to the mixture(If you are lucky you might get some descent sparks).

[pa_pyro]

I'm guessing you mean 30% hydrogen peroxide? And if not would salt work as a catalyst?

[PangleMince]

No, no, 3% works fine. Just saturate the wool, maybe even add a bit of water, put in the salt and wait. It works rather well. With 30% I think it would erupt into a geyser of steam and oxygen... And yes the salt does work as catalyst (from my experience).

[pa_pyro]

( I thought 30% would be too strong) I tried it a few days ago with 3% h2o2and it worked fine. For some reason the salt doesn't work as a catalyst for me so I used yeast instead, but when I just used yeast it just fizzed but didn't rust. Since that didn't work I added both salt and yeast and it worked fine. Any idea why just adding yeast to the peroxide didn't make the steel wool rust? The wool should have been oxidised without adding salt.

[ZoSo357]

I just gave this a try, i used a glass jar that once held instant coffee. filled it about half way with 6% hydrogen peroxide, put in about 3/4 of the volume of liquid worth of steel wool, dumped in about 2 teasppoons of salt and let it sit. its reacting right now. within minutes the water was brownish and the steel wool was all reacting vigerously, giving off fumes and heat.

 

I'll update with my conclusions.

 

EDIT: okay, so i let it sit. mixing now and then to break up the steel wool and let the rest react. after i could stir it and it seemed to no longer be reacting, i poured it through coffee filters and filtered out all the liquid. I have a brown sludge which i have spread out over a sheet of glass. IIRC this has to be heated with a flame or in an oven for a while before it is red iron oxide?