Potassium hydrogen phthalate

[a_bab]

I *may* have the opportunity of being able to get a lifetime supply of potassium hydrogen phthalate basically for free.

 

As plusses, I know it's water soluble and it's not hygroscopical. It's also somewhat equivalent in power to sodium benzoate (info here)

 

Now, has anyone some experience with this fuel? Does it worth getting it? (I can get sodium benzoate fuel for very cheap, so it's not the "free" feature that interests me)

Edited June 2, 2009 by a_bab

[Miech]

I know both sodium ftalate and ftalic acid make very nice whistles, so being basically a mix of those two I think it will work pretty well.

[Ventsi]

Dude really? Man thats nice I wish I could get a lifetime supply of anything, doesn't even have to be Pyro related.

 

Anyway I might be interested in buying a litle bit from you.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Ventsi

[asilentbob]

You could try making it... reflux dry ethylene glycol, potassium hydroxide, and polyethylene terephthalate plastic chips. There is a tutorial/write up on sciencemadness.

[a_bab]

This would give potassium TEREphtalate dissolved in a mixture of water and ethylene glicol. I'd go for the cited synth, that gives pure terephtalic acid and react it with KOH.

 

It would be interesting to know how potassium TEREphtalate would behave as a whistle fuel; I have no reasons to believe it won't work. It seems that all of these aromatic acid salts are good for this.

 

 

So, anyone has some more experience on this?

[Seymour]

I believe potassium hydrogen phthalate has been used quite a bit in commercial whistles, especially very narrow bore ones.

 

It could well be a good fuel for other uses too.

[Miech]

It seems that all of these aromatic acid salts are good for this.

The reaction product of some yellow stainy explosive and a basic potassium salt works as well and was actually used in the past. So does that yellow stuff itself and the sodium salt of it. There was another oxidizer with it, with a molar mass of 101 grams. The ratio used back in those days was 70 parts yellow crap and 30 parts of that other chemical. People don't knowing what I mean should just forget the previous lines. It isn't used anymore for a very good reason.

 

I've also tried whistle with gallic acid (3,4,5-trihydroxybenzoic acid) and potassium chlorate. This mixture is very sensitive to impact and friction (so not recommended for actual use), but produces the loudest whistle I've ever heard.

 

I think if you say all phenol and benzoic acid based compounds without multiple rings will work, you are pretty close.

[a_bab]

Well, I know about your yellow and very bitter crap, but I would't consider it. Oddly enough, it is still used in some indoor fireworks, as it produces little smoke.

[Seymour]

Well, I know about your yellow and very bitter crap, but I would't consider it. Oddly enough, it is still used in some indoor fireworks, as it produces little smoke.

 

Really? I thought it produced a fair bit of carbon. The black fog ain't good for your lungs.

 

I guess adding some of the 101g/mol salt cuts down on this, but we still have Potassium to provide solid particulates.

[WSM]

I did a bit of work with it in the mid '90's (anyone remember PGI '94?). The material I used was sythesized by myself (before I acquired some reagent grade KHP later) several years earlier from phthalic anhydride and KOH, and I managed a yield of roughly 95% of theoretical if memory serves.

It whistles well and I don't recall any moisture problems. Potassium benzoate or salicylate (sorry, make it yourself as it's not a product of commerce so far as I know) seem more affordable and available, but by all means if you can get it for free, take it! Where can you get whistle fuels for free or cheap these days? I wouldn't hesitate.