Dragon eggs

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

I have made this dragon egg formula,

 

Lead-Copper Dragons eggs

 

Lead tetraoxide (Minium) 44

Cupric oxide 31

Magnalium (60-200 mesh) 17

Sulphur 4

Potassium nitrate 4

 

and I used NC laquer to bind.

 

I just poured the comp into a formed slab, and let it dry so i could cut it later.

 

I broke off a pea sized ball of this stuff, and i lit it with a torch, it glowed for a moment, so I backed up, and BOOOOM! this stuff seemed to be much too energetic to be the same things that go crackling in dragon egg shells. I broke off various smaller pieces, and the did the same glow, except they merely flashed.

 

I dont want to be spoonfed here, but would someone please point me in the right direction in order to make these a bit safer/correctly?

 

Thanks

[psyco_1322]

That's about how dragon eggs act. I haven't looked at many lead formulas but the KNO3 and S don't look like they should be there.

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

So all it really is, is a small thermite reaction going on correct? Since lead has a great difference in reactivity than magnalium, it reacts very quickly but needs the whole star to heat up to correct temperature first.

[Miech]

That's a Lancaster formula, right? Smaller pieces (2 mm) should snap as well, they did when I made this composition. Make sure your sulfur is incorporated very well, as well as your KNO3. This is going to take some time to do properly, because this isn't the easiest mixture to work with. Your succes is also determined by the amount of NC laquer added to the mixture. Too much and it will take ages befor they snap, too less and they will just shizzle and flash.

 

Don't forget your respirator and gloves .

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Yes it´s one of Lancaster´s formulas. A great one. Much cheaper due to the fact that only about half of the minium is necessary, and nicer/less toxic to work with as with the old fashioned lead formula, which - due to the very high minium content - simply makes one fatty, orange mass.

 

I wouldn´t be too concerned to cut the stars small while the mass is still damp as most people do. This makes a mess and the gummy mass will re-seal any cuts you make in it. Roll it out in a thin layer, make a few cuts to get handy pieces for the later work, and let dry! This pieces are crushed with a non sparking tooling after drying. (Watch out! Dragons Eggs are quite sensitive! See Lancaster.)

 

The optimum particle size for use is 10-20 mesh, which matches 4FA.

Edited May 18, 2009 by AdmiralDonSnider

[Swede]

As a sort of continuation to this thread, rather than start a new one...

 

I whipped up a micro-batch of bismuth crackling stars/dragon eggs. This is the simple formula:

 

Bi subnitrate 70

Magnalium 20

Cu oxide 10

 

NC lacquer to bind. I rolled out a patty, scored it, and then when partially dried, separated the tiny 1mm nuggets.

 

They work well, but the problem I saw was this: at the first sharp POP, the 1mm piece would break into a couple of smaller pieces, and not remain ignited. These, when hit with a torch, would also POP but a bit less each time. Essentially, the little star/egg gives one good sharp crack, and breaks up.

 

I'm afraid that the majority of the comp. will remain unburned. Is this normal behavior? I've never tried these before. They do look like they'd be ideal as cores, and I've always liked the effect.

[Swede]

TE, I hope you don't mind this continuation of your thread.

 

I took a little film clip of an egg, of this size:

http://www.5bears.com/firew/dragn00.jpg

 

This piece did in fact shatter and continue to burn, with a mini-cascade of pops, which is what I wanted. Others, though, did simply break once, with the bulk of the egg flying away unburnt.

 

mpg video 118K

 

Any hints on getting a rolling barrage of pops? If these are simply used alone in a little festival ball or cup, I get the feeling they'd all ignite and pop almost instantaneously with the burst, muting the effect. Perhaps layers of NC lacquer would provide enough delay. Again, any tips on using these alone, not as a core for a star, would be appreciated.

 

Hmm, I suspect they'd be cool pressed in a fountain, too, or a small mine.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Swede

[FrankRizzo]

You can coat them with a layer of prime, which depending on the thickness, will determine the time from burst to crackle. This would probably be a good application for the slow-burning Glusatz prime, which would give you more delay time, while not building the granules up so much in diameter.

 

Glüsatz

Barium Nitrate 75.5

Charcoal Airfloat 10

Sulfur 10

Water 6

Meal Powder 3

Cab-O-Sil 1

CMC 0.5

[Arthur]

What size dragons egg is best for crackles?

[Mumbles]

It depends what effect you want. The bigger the star is, the longer the delay before it goes off, and the less likely it is to go off in one snap. I've found to get that "cascade of crackles", using less NC will do the trick. 1/4" is about the limit, but I tend to like the 8-12 mesh range.

[Miech]

I think this is the right thread for this question.

 

I found the following formula by Winokur in my database:

 

40 Magnalium (-200#)

18 Saran

17 Copper Oxide

12 Minium (Pb3O4)

10 Potassium Nitrate

03 Sulfur

 

Now I'm pretty sure the saran is for binding, but I'm not exactly sure if that is its only purpose. I do understand the mechanism of a traditional NC based dragon egg, but was wondering if some other kind of mechanism is making this formula working. I know some organic chlorides can react exothermically with magnesium, so is the chlorine in saran needed to keep the reaction going? Can the saran be substituted by a non-chlorinated binder like red gum/epoxy/whatever? I do not have saran, this is one of those chemicals being nearly unobtainable where I live. Obviously parlon isn't going to work as this is a flame retardant.

 

Any insight is appreciated.

[derekroolz]

TE, I hope you don't mind this continuation of your thread.

 

I took a little film clip of an egg, of this size:

http://www.5bears.com/firew/dragn00.jpg

 

This piece did in fact shatter and continue to burn, with a mini-cascade of pops, which is what I wanted. Others, though, did simply break once, with the bulk of the egg flying away unburnt.

 

mpg video 118K

 

Any hints on getting a rolling barrage of pops? If these are simply used alone in a little festival ball or cup, I get the feeling they'd all ignite and pop almost instantaneously with the burst, muting the effect. Perhaps layers of NC lacquer would provide enough delay. Again, any tips on using these alone, not as a core for a star, would be appreciated.

 

Hmm, I suspect they'd be cool pressed in a fountain, too, or a small mine.

 

 

I have seen some perfessional fireworks were they get some of the dragon eggs and put it inside a smaller ball like a half inch across and get enough fuse in there to ignite the dragon eggs or just give the ball some extra bp with it, to ensure lighting. Then they have a small hole in the other capping part of the ball, so the fuse can come out of it. and it looks like the video you made but there is a deal bit more popping and happens farley quick but is cool.

[lodcomm]

Many years ago I used to get a item called "cracker balls". They were foil paper wrapped blobs of a bound meal like substance with about an inch of visco poked right into the blob. They looked similar to a fat "Hersheys Kiss". They behaved exactly like the "dragon egg" item now, only much more of the crackling effect than is found in the powder filled plastic spheres we have now. Is anything like this still available in the class C products? They were very handy to grind and use to enhance other compositions. I often placed them unprimed (foil wrapper removed) directly into my canister shells and they easily ignited and gave a nice what I would describe as a "sparkling cloud" effect...

[Zmuro]

How can I prime the dragon eggs? I push them through a 10 mesh screen and dry them, and now I need to prime them. What prime should I use and how can I prime them?

[pyrogeorge]

i found the dragon eggs prime.

 

Potassium Perchlorate 70

Magnalium, granular, -200 mesh 20

Red Gum 10

[50AE]

A friend will synthesize some NC for me, and I will have NC lacquer soon.

 

So I'd like to know what is the best formula with Pb3O4. I have plenty of this stuff, so I don't plan to economize it.

[Zmuro]

i found the dragon eggs prime.

 

Potassium Perchlorate 70

Magnalium, granular, -200 mesh 20

Red Gum 10

 

Can I bind prime with dextrin and water, red gum and alcohol or should I use NC lacquer?

[pyrogeorge]

sorry but didn't refer how to prime..if someone used this prime can help you.

[Ventsi]

Binding them with Alcohol should should make some sticky, rock hard prime. I think Ethanol is the recomended alc. , not sure though. Also you might have to prime the prime since it looks like it needs a bit to get it going, unless they are used in metal colors.

[Zmuro]

I never used alcohol and red gum for rolling prime or rolling stars, just for cutting. Should I make toro like paste or spray alcohol over dragon eggs and then add prime?

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

If your eggs are NC based. I would remoisten them with acetone, and roll the eggs in prime. then add a layer of green mix on top. Very reliable prime!

[TrueBluePyro]

Has anyone tried making dragons eggs with bismuth subcaarbonate? any luck? Im about to buy some at US$20 per pound (or US$44 per Kilo, ask me if you want some) and I want to know whats a good comp for these thing. A comp that is easy to light and makes a good bang. Are the forumulars just replacing the trioxide with subcarbonate?

[Ralph]

probably should have posted the first part in the agora

[Mumbles]

I tried it when it first came onto the market a few years ago. Skylighter was offloading it for $6 a pound. This was back before proven formulas existed. I got some sizzles and pops, but nothing close to traditional dragon eggs. I converted a Bi2O3 formula into the subcarbonate on a mole to mole basis.

 

It turns out I had the formula pretty close to what eventually came out. I don't think I had enough NC in there to get a proper effect though. I haven't tried since, but I know a few people who swear by it. Then again they stocked up when there was still no demand and it was comparable to the price of red lead.

[TrueBluePyro]

yeah, this is about the cheapest it will get (@ US$20/pound). I dont really want to try lead based stars just yet. Im while off that, if I even want to try it. Im hoping that this subcarbonate will just work, it will be a nice collection to my chem list anyway.