Checking for Ammonium Perchlorate

[Mumbles]

I know this is the kind of thing people would look to me to answer, but I wanted to run some ideas past everyone.

 

So, I made two compositions last fall to be cut into stars. Something ended up happening, and it got left as dry composition. I am going to use it now, and I'll be damned if I can remember what the formulas are. It's something I've never used before. One is definitely blue as it has copper oxychloride or carbonate in it. That could easily be checked for by adding a few drops of HCl to a sample. The other has some redgum in it. My main concern is that there is AP in there, which obviously brings with it priming issues. One is definitely blue, and the other I think is purple. I have a pretty good idea what the blue formula is, but the other is dicy. I suppose I should just burn a little bit to get the color at least.

 

I think if I just add NaOH solution to a sample I could notice some ammonia being produced. What does everyone else think?

[ExplosiveCoek]

What about mixing a very small sample of those starcompo's with some Mg, and wet it?

If it will react very soon then the possibility that there is some ammon perc in it is very huge I guess.

 

Not very reliable, but it's something .

[Miech]

Try forming a copper tetraamino complex by dissolving a star in water and adding some soluble copper salt to it. It's a pretty reliable and clear indicator for ammonium compounds. Please take note that the compound formed is pretty likely to be an explosive, so don't dry it.

 

If you don't know which color a star is, just burn one and you'll know .

[FrankRizzo]

Mumbles,

 

Press a small lance of each comp and burn them to find out what color each is. To avoid priming issues, just use the pinball prime that Lloyd has been talking about on Passfire.

 

Pinball prime:

Potassium Perchlorate - 75

Charcoal - 15

Red Gum - 10

Dextrin - +6.25

 

All rough; no milling.

 

For tough-to-light comps add:

American Dark Aluminum - +6.25

or

MgAl (-325m) - +6.25

or

Silicon (-325m) - +6.25

Edited April 25, 2009 by FrankRizzo

[psyco_1322]

Personally I would take some out and burn it. Ammonium Perchlorate seems to have a distinct burning characteristic in the flame. Very different from what Potassium Perchlorate is like. Then AP stars leave a ammonia smelling smoke hanging afterwords.

[Miech]

Not all AP compo's leave such a smell. I've made some hexamine blues that smell like burned parlon and desert sand (takes some imagination ) afterwards, with no ammonia smell at all.

[psyco_1322]

Hmm...that does take some imagination. I havn't sniffed burnt parlon before and surely haven't snorted lines of desert sand. It doesn't sound like one of those good smelling formulas.

[Mumbles]

I might know what you're talking about by "desert sand". I personally describe it as burning ceramic. I've had some break drum issues in the past.

 

I think I will give the sodium hydroxide a shot first. I think a lot of you are getting too into this. I have doubts about forming tetraamine complexes with all the other ions in solution, there is likely something that will preferentially bind over amines, which in all reality arn't all that strong.

[a_bab]

What about adding a bit of KNO3 to a small amount of compo, and leaving it outside for the whole night. In the morning it should be wet (use a witness amount too).

[Mumbles]

That might work. I would probably use a reverse dessicator type of thing just to be sure it gets access to a lot of water.

[andyboy]

Isn't it possible that the KNO3 might soak up the water on it's own without having to form AN? Best make it three samples, one with straight comp, one with comp + KNO3 and one with straight KNO3. Edited May 1, 2009 by andyboy

[WSM]

To test for AP I use two tests; first a methylene blue solution to confirm the anion, perchlorate and second Nessler's reagent to test for the cation, ammonium/ammonia. I have accurately identified AP from KP in mixes using this technique in the past. Nessler's reagent is very sensitive and can detect minute ammounts of ammonium salt or ammonia.

[Swede]

WSM, excellent info. Is there some test that can replace Nessler's in the above post, given the difficulty and dangers of the mercury compounds? The Nessler test seems to have an outstanding sensitivity, and maybe there is something easier to use that might not have the sensitivity, but would be safer/cheaper.

 

Here's a very cool page that discusses some qualitative tests. Their recommendation - NaOH, and test the evolved gas with red litmus, which will turn blue. Check out the page, and the associated home page for a lot of practical tests for anions and cations.

[WSM]

WSM, excellent info. Is there some test that can replace Nessler's in the above post, given the difficulty and dangers of the mercury compounds? The Nessler test seems to have an outstanding sensitivity, and maybe there is something easier to use that might not have the sensitivity, but would be safer/cheaper.

 

Here's a very cool page that discusses some qualitative tests. Their recommendation - NaOH, and test the evolved gas with red litmus, which will turn blue. Check out the page, and the associated home page for a lot of practical tests for anions and cations.

 

Hi Swede,

Thanks for the excellent information resource. I plan to study those tests more thoroughly later on.

 

Nessler's reagent is not nice stuff, BUT it works so well and is so sensitive that I trust it completely. I believe the NaOH/red litmus test can give a positive test with other common materials, also (it's not specific to ammonium). There are probably other tests available to us but I have to admit that once I had Nessler's reagent, I didn't look further.