Copper oxides for blues

[Arthur]

I've been using Black Copper(II) oxide for blues, now I see a genuine Chinese formula listing Copper(I) Oxide.

 

Am I looking at a transliteration typo or am I looking at the real way that Liuyang makes nice blues? Anyone care to share any wisdom?

[Yankie]

I have heard it can be used as a 1:1 replacement, not 100% sure though if it has any incompatabilities, I highly doubt it though. If you have some try two side by side comparisons.

[Mumbles]

I've heard that it can work just fine. I tend to avoid Copper (I) because it's not stable. This isn't meant to be taken in a bad way. It won't combust, or explode, or anything like that. Just over time it will convert itself to Copper (II) anyway on contact with air. It probably won't chance it's usefulness at all. I've seen copper (I) being used before too. Granted only one came from a reputable source. Most of the others just came from people messing around, got an acceptable color and posted the formula, more of a novelty I'd say. Much like formulas using peanut butter, table salt, or toner. They may work, but they have no place in real pyro.

 

The only way to be sure would be to see it being made. Most all the stars will have charcoal in them, so telling the difference by star hue alone may be difficult. I wouldn't doubt that they make blues with Copper (I), but I don't think it's any secret process that gives superior colors. They probably just got a big excess of it from somewhere, and found a way to make it work if it is legitimate.

[Ralph]

oi

there is nothing wrong with peanut butter it is called thinking out side of the box

I am starting to regret ever joining this forum people on pyro guide are much more friendly

don't discount peanut butter till you try it with a little aluminium added to the mix you will be hard pressed to find a port fire that burns for as long while still providing an extremely hot flame there are reasons why salt and toner are not suitable for pyro uses such as salt being hygroscopic and not giving great colour and toner being down right expensive but peanut butter is water resistant and cheap and so try it or stop commenting about it

 

as for copper (1) oxide I have heard it should be kept away from chlorate as copper chlorate can form which happens to be unstable

[Miech]

He's not trying to personally assault you for using peanut butter. What he is trying to say (I think) is that using peanut butter isn't something that can be used commercially due to practical reasons. The same counts for toner and table salt. Although these formula's do work, they'll be never/rarely used by experienced pyrotechnicians because there are better alternatives.

 

I'm not saying you should stop trying out new stuff. I actually tried your peanut butter flare and it does work fine. If people critisize your creations and devices see it as a compliment. They apparently think it is interesting enough to write a comment about, so take the advise and see what you can do with it.

 

If I might sound somewhat harsh it's because I lack the ability to express feelings very well in English. I'm not wanting or trying to hurt someones feelings.

[Mumbles]

I have nothing against thinking outside of the box, experimentation, or trying new things. Think what you want, it's just not practical or economical to use. I did not mean to take a personal shot at you.

[psyco_1322]

Hmmm....peanut butter. I might try employing that into a new form of camp fire starter.

 

Ralph, don't get some oddly worded responses as meaning we all are a bunch of meanys. This is quite the peaceful forum, I hardly ever see any one get upset, pissy, or in peoples faces about things.

 

If you want to see some odd ideas and things, check out my blog. If I can find usefulness of linseed oil in pyro, then peanut butter is nothing weird.

[Ralph]

well does anyone know any port fire comps out there that will burn for as long and still give a hot enough flame to instantly light American visco and as far as being economical peanut butter is cheap as peanuts compared to many chemicals we use and how is it not practical i mean it takes away the need to moisten the formula to ensure even packing into the tube and it remains as a solid mass.

 

Miech said "Although these formula's do work, they'll be never/rarely used by experienced pyrotechnicians because there are better alternatives." please give us a more economical formula that performs better

 

 

i have posted a short clip on youtube (cant be the full length one because have almost reached my internet data alowence this month) it is ignited with a star chip and the sparks at the begining are not created by the peanut butter fuel i am still working on a formula with weights to release should have a perfect one in a couple weeks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjl08e82MJs

 

 

 

linseed oil is usefull for coating mg and stuff

Edited May 5, 2009 by Ralph

[scrappy]

oi

there is nothing wrong with peanut butter it is called thinking out side of the box

I am starting to regret ever joining this forum

 

i'de like to be clear and open, i do not have a greiviance with anybody here, and you are a very knowledgable lot" BUT

 

Ralph", i hear what you say, this seems to be very much the boys club forum, if you are new to pyro, think out of the square, are not in the in crowd of home brewing, " and i may state i distil my own ether for formulae and consumption", go to shoot carnivals, "impossible here in AU", have your grand parents as previous members or are not HE qualified, [ ( which is just a self indulgent Qualification ( qualified to talk about HE, i've read many posters whom are HE Qualified and think to my self..how can they be qualified for HE ? ) and i will also add i have never and will never apply to be a member of such a self indulgent club as this HE club) ], you are looked upon as an unequal dumb f**k by the opposite of the afore mentioned,

 

there are other forums on this great informational highway, ukps is great, and the admin are not critical ( on the contrary actually, very helpfull) or dictatoral, ( within reason ) and your presence is appreciated,

 

 

I too used to read these forum posts with antisipation and great interest, ( and still do ) but to be a part of it..... yea right, you have to be an accepted member of...." the boys club" unfortunately for me, my prescence here is now only to recieve my Pms,

 

Edit:- i can only assume that after this post i will not even be able to recieve my Pms anymore

Edited May 5, 2009 by scrappy

[Ralph]

just a note after ready scrappy's reply i am not new to pyro

and i agree with you that this forum is very segregating (i thank you scrappy for taking an unpopular stand for me and i only hope there are no consequences for you (i am sure if you were part of the HE crowd it would be overlooked))

 

please dont take this the wrong way i appreciate what i have learned from the forums

 

 

and also in response to scrappy again dont bother trying to become HE qualified because mumbels will just ignore your PM if he dosnt think you are worthy like he did mine

[TrueBluePyro]

Not to be a dick, but yeah mumbles, do you even reply to PMs? cause I'm pretty sure I sent you one and I got nothing back...not even an "Ok, I'll look into it " But yeah, I dont mind APC that much, I just got hooked into this thread.

[scrappy]

i agree with you that this forum is very segregating (i thank you scrappy for taking an unpopular stand for me and i only hope there are no consequences for you (i am sure if you were part of the HE crowd it would be overlooked))

 

don't worry about me ol' mate, i'll call it as i see it and i'll cop it on the chin, whatever the consequences

[Mumbles]

Wow, this is getting incredibly off topic. This had better stop soon.

 

Don't think it's because I'm ignoring you. You can ask anyone, I am terrible about getting back to PM. Swede, Richtee, Psyco_1322, marks265 could all tell you they've waited days to weeks for a reply. These are all members of the "boys club" I'm sure you refer to. Don't be afraid to send me a reminder. It's the end of the school year, and things easily get overlooked.

 

I'll leave everything else to die off.

 

I will reiterate I was not trying to take a personal shot on you. Please try to take a minute to try to think about it from my point of view. Say you were going to put on a show, and needed 40 fusees. Would you it be easier to work with dry chemicals that you can weigh out, and mix easily, or with peanut butter which sticks to all of your tools and needs to be hand kneeded to incorporate everything?

 

And since you asked:

 

Red Railroad Fusee

Strontium nitrate 74

Potassium perchlorate 6

Sulfur 10

Paraffin wax or petrolatum 2-6

Fine sawdust 8-4

 

Burns on the same relative speed as yours(reportedly from Hardt), and every chemical is cheaper than $3 a pound (your given value for peanut butter)

[TheSidewinder]

Mumbles is *rather* busy with College, and can't always answer his PM's as promptly as everyone would like. I'd counsel patience.

 

Access to the HE section is EARNED, not GIVEN. It's not a matter of being "worthy", it's a matter of being safe, mature, and responsible here FIRST.... BEFORE you are granted access. (And complaining about it isn't furthering your argument one bit.)

 

 

As to those who think we're somehow "segregating" if we caution you (or even scold you a little bit)? It's because we're concerned about SAFETY. Yours, and everyone else's AROUND you.

 

Peanut Butter Portfires? Hey, that's fine. If it works and is SAFE, then more power to you. It was pointed out that such things are both impractical and relatively expensive, no more than that.

 

 

There's a short list of things which people do that make us cringe. Part of that list follows:

 

1) People who come here and assume that because something they did (or didn't do) hasn't resulted in an accident YET, then that must mean it's SAFE to do.

 

2) People who, as it later turns out, do have a good knowledge base but act as though we should know that from your very first post. (And if said first post looks as though it were written by a 4th-grader, it doesn't help your cause one bit.)

 

3) People who, as is immediately apparent, DON'T know what they're talking about and believe we should stand back and say nothing when they post something that's either flat wrong, or outright dangerous.

 

4) People who think that flash is something "kewl 2 play wit".

 

5) Those who don't ALWAYS remember that in Pyrotechnics we use chemicals and formulas that have inherent risks WHICH CAN KILL YOU IF YOU FORGET THAT.

 

 

Pyrotechnicians, as a whole, are very cautious about letting a newbie into their ranks until said newbie PROVES that they're someone who can be trusted. That's true here at APC, as well.

 

"Safety" is the legitimate Pyro's mantra. We don't ever want to read about you in the newspaper, least of all on the obituary page, and to help ensure that we take an active hand in keeping the information here as correct, safe, and informative as we can.

 

If you believe that's being heavy-handed, you're entitled to your opinion. But don't be surprised if the majority disagrees with your opinion, hmmm?

 

Now, back on-topic please gentlemen.

 

 

 

EDIT: Well, I see that while I was being long-winded, Mumbles was answering. And more politely than I would have, were I in his shoes.

[Ralph]

"Don't think it's because I'm ignoring you. You can ask anyone, I am terrible about getting back to PM. Swede, Richtee, Psyco_1322, marks265 could all tell you they've waited days to weeks for a reply. These are all members of the "boys club" I'm sure you refer to. Don't be afraid to send me a reminder. It's the end of the school year, and things easily get overlooked. " this was months ago that i sent the message

 

 

 

"And since you asked:

 

Red Railroad Fusee

Strontium nitrate 74

Potassium perchlorate 6

Sulfur 10

Paraffin wax or petrolatum 2-6

Fine sawdust 8-4

 

Burns on the same relative speed as yours(reportedly from Hardt), and every chemical is cheaper than $3 a pound (your given value for peanut butter)"

 

thanks but for those of us in Australia stornium nitrate and perc are both harder to get and cost considerably more than peanut butter so i am simply adapting to my location and if i wasted my strontium nitrate and perchlorate on that i wouldn't be able to do as many whistles and reds.

 

also this mix is not sticky and dosnt remain on your tooling and a show requiring 40 port fires with 1 3" tube of this taking a minimum time of 3 min to burn that is 120min im not sure who of us here has enough time to make a show going for almost 1.5 hours