Copper lead media

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

I have recently cut half inch od copper pipe to make cylinder media and I have been melting my own lead to fill the pipe. My question is, will this be safe, and/or more practical to use vs. 50 cal lead shot. Also, would I get a more pure comp from new media?

[a_bab]

You'd get purer comp out of copper/lead media as the lead surface exposed to rubbing is smaller (maybe a much as 70%) thus getting less lead in your milled bp. As about safety, as much as pouring lead is a farly dangerous activity in itself; cutting the cilinder may hurt you and so on, you draw the conclusions.

 

50 cal. is for the lazy people

 

BTW, I was assuming you'd use filled up copper tubes vs lead rod obtained from copper tubes.

[Mumbles]

About the only thing you can't mill is anything containng ammonium salts. That would be dangerous. It will also corrode quickly from the sulfur in BP.

 

There is no way to tell about anything else unless to tell us what you plan to be milling or how big your jar is.

[50AE]

I'd suggest to you to cut a brass pipe, not copper one. It's harder.

Or if you're lazy, you can melt hardened lead with antimony.

[fredjr]

The main problem with the copper is it WILL corrode. Then when it is thin enough, it will start chipping off and leaving little bits of copper in your BP. What a royal pain in the ass to screen out. I guess in a small mill it wouldn't but my mill makes 5k per run... Edited April 2, 2009 by fredjr

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

Plan on milling bp, strontium nitrate, barium nitrate, bentonite clay, ammonium perchlorate, copper acetate when I make enough. My jar is 5" ID and 11" long. It's a direct driven PVC jar.

What Is the problem with ammonium?

[Mumbles]

Ammonium salts can form minute amounts of Tetraamine copper salts. Several of which, including chlorate, perchlorate, and nitrate are primary explosives. If not, they will likely start corroding the copper with any signs of moisture. Copper acetate may also corrode the copper due to metal replacement reactions.

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

What difference is there in using brass to mill ap? Or should I just stick to lead media?

[gordohigh]

Why not track down some stainless rod? I had a piece I got from years ago and I just cut it into over a hundred pieces and just used a small 4in grinder with a metal blade to cut and it only took about 3 hours to cut it and to mill the ends. I have a small lathe but you could use a grinder to touch up the edges on both ends. I would guess the copper costs as much or more than stainless rod and it will wear far less and last, well, a long long time. The method I used was to clamp it in a vice, mark it with black marker and reposition it about every 10~12 cuts. With the right blade it cuts very fast! Even chucking each piece twice in the lathe and milling was going at around 20~25 pieces every 15 min, (yes, I timed it).

 

I would guess you need about 3 times what I have being that my jar, (to mill mag/al), is only 4in diameter pvc by 3.5in long and I don't pack it full. Anyway, once you have it you are set!

[longwaytofall]

I am doing the same thing as you, I'll let you know how it turns out. Have 10ft of 1/2" tubing (5/8 OD) cut (1" long) and casted already, I'll probably need another 2 lengths of pipe to fill my jar (8"x8"). I used a block of 4x4 wood and drilled about 40 holes in it with a end mill bit, the pieces came out great except a few had holes in them from moisture escaping the wood. Hitting them with a blowtorch worked perfectly, and also helped to make the lead more solid inside the pipe. If you preheat your copper pipe it might help the shrinkage/clearance issue, but I used a regular hand held spin-around type cutter and it left a nice burr on the inside, which prevents the lead from going anywhere. If you decide to cut with a saw or something that will cut it cleanly, I would say for sure you will need to preheat the pipe or hit them with a blowtorch afterwards. Denting each one a tiny bit might also work, but what a hassle.

[baran420]

Just a thought with respect to melting lead inside either copper or brass tubing and cutting the final product into rods: would the lead core not slip out of the tube once cut. I would imagine that without scoring the inside of the tube this could happen??

 

Also why not get the best of both worlds and fill stainless tube with lead: chemical resistant and dense all in one. Not sure about sparking ability though.

 

Cheers, Anton

[longwaytofall]

Yes I think that it will almost for sure be an issue, unless possibly you preheat the tubes or use a torch to melt the lead when it is already in the copper tube. I'm thinking if the copper is significantly higher than the melting point of the lead, it will expand more than lead and upon cooling it will tighten around it. My results with simply pouring the lead into cold pipes has been that it is slightly loose. The only thing preventing mine from falling out is the nice inside burr left from the cutting tool.

If you were absolutely certain you had non sparking stainless, then that should work great. Caps welded on the ends and a little fill hole would be the ultimate, although very time consuming.

[Mumbles]

There is a method I first saw on passfire where lead was cast into copper tubes that were around 6" long. You could actually ram them out of there with a wooden dowel to get lead cylinders which could be cut up. I found a lubricant of some sort really helped siezing. I used vaseline dissolved in toluene, but I think he used something else. It puts tiny bubbles in the surface of the lead, but nothing a little dry run can't take care of.

 

I tried cutting up the longer rods as well. I found that if you used one of the rotary cutters, it indented indo the lead pretty well, and seemed like it would hold it in place. I never managed to make enough to actually see how it held up though. Lead metal is quite a PITA to cut I found.

[gordohigh]

A couple of days ago I melted some lead and carefully filled all the chambers of my aluminum star plate (several times). I was able to take a wood dowel and tap them out without too much trouble and after making some red stars last night I can confirm that it didn't harm my plate. Unfortunately I didn't have a ladle so a soup can bent with a pouring tip on it worked just fine using a pair of channel lock plyers through a hole cut in the upper part of the can. I too worry about the lead contamination though and would like to eventually get away from lead altogether and the brass rod sounds good to me and I'm sure would bbe easy to cut.

 

If anyone tries the star plate as a mold just be sure to not over fill to the point where they are connected, it makes them hard to tap out!

[Swede]

A lot of people melt lead and pour it into Cu pipe sections. I'm sure it works and can be handy. I'm just daydreaming here, but perhaps the interior of the Cu tubes can be fluxed first, which would make the bonding an actual soldering job rather than a slug of Pb inside the Cu.

 

This can be done in several ways. The Cu interior needs to be cleaned... they sell steel swab brushes just for this purpose. You could use regular plumbing flux before pouring the Pb, a VERY light coating inside the Cu. Or, you could perhaps create a solution of water and HCl, and immerse the pre-cleaned Cu pipe segments in this solution, allowing them to "pickle" for a few minutes. With gloved hands, install them still damp in a wood block, and pour the Pb. I'd wear protective gear and a face shield regardless as you may get a steam fountaining of molten Pb. It might be worth a small-scale experiment. But in the end, it might not be worth the hassle. Perhaps just a sound degreasing, and then abrasive cleaning of the interior will work.

 

All that said, NOTHING in my opinion comes close to stainless steel as a media. Lasts forever, no incompatibilties that I am aware of, and you hose it down when done.

 

I'd say if you are a new guy and you KNOW this hobby is for you, invest in stainless rod and be done with it. eBay is a decent source. It takes far more than one would imagine to make enough to do even a single jar, so do the math and calculate how much rod you'll need before you buy. Then, find a guy with a metal-cutting bandsaw, or a power hacksaw, and buy him a case of beer. Or, get a hand hacksaw and be prepared for hours of agonizing hand sawing.

 

You can deburr the cut media by tumbling the slugs with aluminum oxide sand-blast material or just plain sand, plus water.

[dagabu]

The only flux that even comes close is Oatey #30106 liquid flux. I t WILL bond the lead to the walls of the tube... and then shrink causing cracks throughout the center of the pour.

 

Lead shrinks WAY too much to mold that way and using a long tube and melting it in the tube is only done with acceptable results when you learn to keep the heat (melted lead) above the solid mass, if you don't, you will get voids in the center, the shrinking material will pull from the sides or part in the middle.

 

If you have some lead, go ahead and try it, you will soon see the reasons why I chose to cast each piece individually.

 

D

[andyboy]

When cutting copper pipe with a pipe-cutter you will make a small recess where the cut is made, this is good enough to hold the lead in place.

[gordohigh]

Yes, the type cutter that you tighten down and run in a circle around the pipe would lock the lead in I do believe.

 

 

I also saw some brass hex rod on ebay for pretty cheap, anyone want to guess as to the effect the hex material would have and if it would be any good? I'm happy with my stainless for my magnalium but I still have lead for my black powder and I hate the way it stains the Kno3, knowing it is contaminated.

[Swede]

Gordo, why don't you use stainless for BP? I use it and everything I've read and heard of says it is safe. Have you heard (or experienced) otherwise?

[Mumbles]

I've actually heard that hex is more efficient than round. A few guys swear by it. I swear by what ever is cheapest. If anyone feel like cutting up some stainless or brass media, let me know and we can work something out.

[Mindphreak]

As far as the stainless steel rods mentioned earlier for ball milling go, is there a specific type that should be boutght? Or are all the bars nonsparking, so long as they are stainless steel?

[Mumbles]

I believe the 300 series is generally recommended, as it is non-magnetic as well.