AdmiralDonSnider Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 I´m aware of how rising tails/tracers are added to round shells since the process is described in detail by Shimizu. However, I wondered how the method changes in case of can shells, since the lift wrap doesn´t form a sturdy surface where to paste the comet on. How is it done? (A pic would also be great) Thanks!
Richtee Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 I´m aware of how rising tails/tracers are added to round shells since the process is described in detail by Shimizu. However, I wondered how the method changes in case of can shells, since the lift wrap doesn´t form a sturdy surface where to paste the comet on. How is it done? (A pic would also be great) Thanks! Check this out.. http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?s...ost&p=42336
qwezxc12 Posted March 26, 2009 Posted March 26, 2009 I´m aware of how rising tails/tracers are added to round shells since the process is described in detail by Shimizu. However, I wondered how the method changes in case of can shells, since the lift wrap doesn´t form a sturdy surface where to paste the comet on. How is it done? (A pic would also be great) Thanks! Hey Admiral, In addition to RichTee's polyglue method, attaching standard comets works well for me. I wrap the comet/star with several layers of masking tape, allowing it to hang over the bottom. I snip the overhanging tape into 'petals' that will fan out when the comet is attached. Apply a liberal amount of hot glue, smoosh the comet on (technical term) while fanning out the tape tabs. The hot lift gases will light the rising effect on a cylinder shell just like a ball shell. http://www.apcforum.net/forums/uploads/1217876542/med_gallery_747_5_163608.jpg
FREAKYDUTCHMEN Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 I always attach the comet before I wrap the shell in the liftwrap.
Bonny Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 I often add comets to cylinder shells for a rising tail. They can be hot glued and then one wrap of paper pasted around the base, but I've also simply hot glued to the top...no pasting or anything else and they were fine too.
psyco_1322 Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 I think the trick to keeping them from being ripped off is to place the comet more towards the center of the shell, rather that the edge.
AdmiralDonSnider Posted March 27, 2009 Author Posted March 27, 2009 I always attach the comet before I wrap the shell in the liftwrap. I think I realized what the problem was. I assume you do the lift wrap like Fulcanelli suggested, which means the paper from pasting stays exposed at the upside of the shell and will give a flat and sturdy surface for attachment. By contrast I used to follow another method (like used by Semenza) for lift wrapping, where the wrapping paper is cut sufficiently long to reach the top of the bucket and the leader and is fixed to the bucket with one or two knots of string. However, in this method the paper on top of the shells doesn´t give a sturdy surface for the comet. I guess I´ll have to use the other method if I wanna attach rising tails.
qwezxc12 Posted March 27, 2009 Posted March 27, 2009 As you can see, I don't use a traditional lift wrap. For 4in cans, I use a large (2oz.?) condiment cup, and for 5 and 6in cans, I simply wrap the lift charge in saran wrap, place it over the QM leader on the shell bottom, and tape over with masking tape...simple and easy. It also leaves the top of the shell exposed for comet attachment.
AdmiralDonSnider Posted March 27, 2009 Author Posted March 27, 2009 It also leaves the top of the shell exposed for comet attachment. Yeah, I realized that. That´s the difference compared to the method I use. I guess I will simply abandon the wide lift wrap when I want to add a tracer. - Thanks.
psyco_1322 Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 You can just add the comet to the shell on its outer pasted layer and put your outer wrap over it. When the shell fires, it rips that outer wrap apart and blows it everywhere, and plenty of fire roasts everything that isn't under pasted craft. It should light no problem and you can keep the traditional looking outer wrap.
TheSidewinder Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 One thing I've seen a few people do is to form a circular comet with a center-hole big enough to go around the timefuse at the top of the shell (TOP-FUSED cannister type only). Imagine a pipe with an ID of 2 inches, and an OD of 3.5 inches. Cut a 1 to 2-inch piece off the end. (I forget the proper Geometric name for that shape. Anyone??) Glue or otherwise attach that to the end of the can shell which has your timefuse on it, thereby "surrounding" the timefuse. Attach the leader and passfire after the comet is fixed to the shell. I think you can picture what it looks like. When the leader touches off the timefuse and passfire, the center of that comet will light.
AdmiralDonSnider Posted March 28, 2009 Author Posted March 28, 2009 Yes, I´ve got it. I´ve seen this a couple of times, the comets can be huge in these cases. I´ll give the more common version a try first.
swervedriver Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 (edited) Well, here's a twist, I'd like to know if someone has figured out a way to attach a comet to a 3"+ sized multibreak can shell that stays with the last break all the way up? like this one, bottom fused because it's small enough to still work (most of the time anyways)- http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/1073/prefirered.jpg Edited March 28, 2009 by swervedriver
Mumbles Posted March 28, 2009 Posted March 28, 2009 Theres a method on passfire for big multibreaks where the shells are side fused. By doing it this way you should be able to put the last shot on top, and attach a comet. Alternatively, you might be able to make a sabot that has a recess for the spolette so the first break can be on bottom. The easiest way is kind of cheating. If you use spolettes, like you really almost have to in big shells, you can add some Ti, and it makes at least a trail. It's not always the same spolette, but it will look like a continuous tail.
swervedriver Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 Hmmm, a sabot, I never would have thought of that. that's a great idea.
Mumbles Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 For true big shells, you'd have to have 2 sabots. One donut that was taller than your spolette, and one solid one to prevent blow through of your spolette. I'd also advise making the first break a comet/insert break, so the base of the shell has a firm lifting base.
swervedriver Posted March 29, 2009 Posted March 29, 2009 (edited) Here's what I was trying, a donut of stacked chipboard rings with the timefuse flush and somewhat protected, it works about 75% of the time, in otherwords, not well enough. Can't be certain, but when I reach a certain weight/lift (over 225g) amount, I think the whole donut is getting shredded and taking out the visco timefuse with it. A spollette would be stronger I'm guessing. I could do something similar to this picture on a larger shell, add a solid bottom disk to that with side holes letting fire in? Something along those lines is what you're describing? (sorry about the pic size, I haven't figured out the apc hosting setup yet, will do) http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7965/spollette.jpg Edited March 29, 2009 by swervedriver
psyco_1322 Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 I'm quite confused on your shells, swerve. The first pic looks like you have a lift bag on one end, and cardboard on the other. I can see the cardboard for lift easement but its kinda on the wrong end. Please explain. I see what you're doing with the chipboard protector. You could cut a piece out of a 2x4 or some other piece of wood, drill your whole and have a solid piece that would not come apart. A better option would be to top fuse it, its not that hard to do successfully. BTW, its been reported that stacking and making multi-breaks out of RAP (rapid assembly plastic) shells is not a good idea. The forces do not distribute to well through the shells and their flat surfaces and often causes shells to flowerpot. Its documented in one of the BAFN's if you have them as a reference.
swervedriver Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 (edited) That's a comet, not a lift bag , that shell is bottom fused. There's a hole straight thru the middle of the stack of cardboard disks leading to the timefuse. I've made a lot of these from 4 break to 7 break, both top fused and bottom fused. I have a couple vids on youtube of them. I can say it's been a challenge getting them to work, but I've got the top fused versions down pat all the way to near 300 grams with 7 breaks. thanks for the reference man. For comparison, this is a 6 break top fused version- fun stuff http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2089/topfused6break.jpg Edited March 30, 2009 by swervedriver
psyco_1322 Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 Not paying attention to weights and the hand in your 2nd pic, I was thinking those were 3" cans. Obviously they are a lot smaller. I think that maybe work just fine as there is not that much weight there and the casings are likely more stronger because of the decreased size. Where did you get those casings? 7 breaks is amazing, congrats man.
swervedriver Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 Those are just 35mm film canisters. They are small which is why I can get away with it I guess. The bottom breaks have to be strengthened with chipboard liners for sure, or they crunch up and break during lift. Cheap on material, but very time consuming to build, lol. I enjoy it though, engineering them is half the fun. I'll try the wood next time, they look really neat with rising comets. If I can get a more reliable bottom fuse figured out. I think the wood donut/sabot idea might do the trick.
psyco_1322 Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 Wow, you make me feel dumb. Thats why the look funny in between breaks. So you shoot that out of what a 1.5", 1.75" gun? Dan Creagan tried for a multi-break with film canisters last PGI convention during competition. He would have won but one of his shells had the bottom shot go off on lift. Which pretty much took him out. I would think he must have encountered the issue you speak of with the bottom breaks and chipboard.
swervedriver Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 Nah, the pics don't give scale, that's why I put in the baseball. Yes, I use a 1.5" x 30" inch mortar. I'd like to have seen a more experienced guy shoot some of these, pick his brain and maybe save me some of the pain of my trial and error failures, lol.
psyco_1322 Posted March 30, 2009 Posted March 30, 2009 You can shoot Dan and email. I'm sure you can find it on his site www.wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks. He's quite open and talkative.
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