swervedriver Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 Hi guys. I recently recieved an order of some metals, and I got a bonus thrown in by the vendor of some "Magnesium 1000 Mesh" powder. I was wondering what I could use this for. I try to stay on the safer side of this hobby, and I don't really have an interest in any type of flash mixture using this stuff. Is there any other use I can make out of it? A hot prime, or a nice effect of some kind? I can't seem to find any compositions using such a fine mesh magnesium. Any suggestions other than flash are appreciated!
al93535 Posted February 22, 2009 Posted February 22, 2009 There really isn't any other use for that fine of MG. Its great for breaking crossettes, but other then flash uses its too fine. Its too fine to be used in strobes, or in stars. Its so reactive that you cannot mix it into any water containing comp. You can passivate it with dichromate, but its only purpose would be for use with AP in strobes, and thats not going to happen. You can coat it with linseed oil, and then you can use it safely in solvent bound compositions, but its so fine, it will burn extremely fast. Sorry, its only use is flash. BTW, use milled strontium nitrate as the oxidizer. It will not react to the Mg, as will most other oxidizers. It is the oxidizer of choice in the professional community.
swervedriver Posted February 23, 2009 Author Posted February 23, 2009 OK, thanks Al for the detailed reply. this forum is the best
al93535 Posted February 24, 2009 Posted February 24, 2009 And how are you going to passivate that fine of magnesium, then get it back to that superfine size after the dichromate dries? And if you mill it or screen it back to that fine of a size then you are going to break apart particles and expose bare magnesium. If you ask me, thats asking for trouble... adjust the rate another way, or with coarser Mg.
al93535 Posted February 24, 2009 Posted February 24, 2009 Wow..... I have heard good things about him, but if thats true, I lost some respect for him. Using super fine uncoated Mg and AP... TO ANYONE READING THESE POSTS: Ammonium Perchlorate and Magnesium should NEVER be mixed dry, wet or under any circumstance without coating the magnesium properly with potassium dichromate. The mix can spontaneously ignite!!!! Don't do it!
Mumbles Posted February 24, 2009 Posted February 24, 2009 Dichromate present in the mix probably wont offer much of any protection. I feel it functions more as a catalyst than as a preventative measure. Like boric acid, it has to be in solution to offer protection. It enhances the oxide layer of the Mg to prevent reactions. Steve LaDuke is a very nice guy, and generally is spot on when he gives some advice. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt here. He does indeed use unprotected Mg in his AP based strobes. They're bound with NC into granules, and pressed into his rockets as is at a later time. I don't know if the non-aqueous system prevents anything, but I'd think it would have a limited shelf-life. I wouldn't be comfortable with it, but I guess it works for him.
al93535 Posted February 24, 2009 Posted February 24, 2009 First of all, when giving someone advice and telling them to mix 2 micron magnesium with AP without giving ALL of the composition preparations which may make the mix safe is stupid. Don't go around giving out half the facts. Explain the entire damn thing. Thats exactly what causes accidents! Anyways, anyone who is stupid enough to ignore all the safety warnings, and mix two completely incompatible chemicals hoping that some type of binder will save his ass deserves what will eventually come. I have heard of Steve, and he seems like a great guy. He may feel ok doing what he does, but IT IS STILL UNSAFE! I can give out advice all day about how great a comp is that I make with chlorate and sulfur and never had an accident. Are you going to make it too? Do it if you want, but, from a point of view of safety, in an already hazardous hobby, don't do it. Oh, Dichromate has to be aqueously applied the the Magnesium to protect it. It cannot be added to the mix in hopes of protection. As Mumbles said, it is a catalyst.
FrankRizzo Posted February 24, 2009 Posted February 24, 2009 The offending posts have been removed. In the future, if you feel it necessary to berate or chastise a member, take it to PM. As a moderator you should already know that.
al93535 Posted February 24, 2009 Posted February 24, 2009 Taking other peoples safety into mind does not qualify me as "berate or chastise a member" as you say. An unsafe procedure / composition was mentioned, keeping other people safe far out weighs egos or anything else.
tentacles Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) telling them to mix 2 micron magnesium with AP without giving ALL of the composition preparations which may make the mix safe is stupid. Taking other peoples safety into mind does not qualify me as "berate or chastise a member" as you say. An unsafe procedure / composition was mentioned, keeping other people safe far out weighs egos or anything else. All Frank did was mention a possible use and you came down like a bag of hammers. Frank gave no formula, no procedure - just answered the guy's fucking question. I'm only able to decipher the second sentence of your last post. The gist of that part is that the end justifies the means, or if someone's safety is at stake you can't be bothered with niceties like civilized behaviour. I suppose if Frank HAD detailed how to make strobe formulas, dichromating, all that, you'd have berated him for being off topic? All you needed to do was mention the safety concern, there's no need to call someone stupid for being concise. Edited February 25, 2009 by tentacles
al93535 Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 How do you know what was said when posts are deleted? When Frank answered "the fucking guys question" he told swervedriver to mix 2 micron magnesium and AP to speed up the rate on a strobe rocket. There were no details, simply to add the magnesium unprotected. his "possible use" could have caused an accident, or even a death. So I cleared that up, and made sure it was known thats its not safe. ". Frank gave no formula, no procedure" exactly.... Imagine if someone came along and read that, went out to the shop and mixed some up.... And yes, safety should be #1. Don't you think? "if someone's safety is at stake you can't be bothered with niceties like civilized behaviour" I agree completely, I'd rather save someone from being burned, hurt or killed over being PC or civilized. Personally I think its best to make safety above all else, and YES nothing else would mater at that point. I have never ever even once said anything about any member, berated anyone, talked down to anyone, humiliated or in any way said anything bad about any person who frequents this site. I simply posted safety concerns and stated how stupid it is to advocate using unsafe mixes, and not posting all the details.
tentacles Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 How do you know what was said when posts are deleted?I read the original post, before it was deleted. Presumably you did too. What I was trying to point out with my reply was that you were a dick about your safety warning, in my opinion. Maybe I should have said it more plainly from the start. Your method of delivering the safety warning might as well have been a slap to the face, when it could have been an addendum discussing the necessary safety precautions. A pleasant safety reminder is appropriate in non-emergency situations, I think.
TheSidewinder Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 Cease-fire please. Although I'm sure he can defend himself just fine I'm going to point out that Al is a Moderator. I think the issue has been resolved? Thank you.
Ventsi Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 I really think that it is the wrong time and place to ask this,but im going to risk it. Do you guys know anything a bout the stability of Mg+S mix?I know its quite energetic[Poof*] and i have tried it before. My question is does it have a reasonable shelf life and can it be used as a booster or break mix for crossettes ?It defenatly beats KNO3/Mg mixtures chemistry wise,or atleast i think so. If needed, delete this, I just want to know if its a 'safe' mix or not.
mike_au Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 Do you guys know anything a bout the stability of Mg+S mix? This doesn't appear to have an oxidizer. I've heard of Zn and S being used for something (rocket fuel?) is this a similar reaction? If it is suitable as a booster, I would be interested to know more (ratio, mesh size, etc).
Ventsi Posted February 25, 2009 Posted February 25, 2009 This doesn't appear to have an oxidizer. I've heard of Zn and S being used for something (rocket fuel?) is this a similar reaction? If it is suitable as a booster, I would be interested to know more (ratio, mesh size, etc). Well the Mg is about -100 mesh,flake-granular.Sulfur is... well sulfur.If i may say this it peforms like flash when contained in 1 layer of toilet paper.Very powerfull and smelly.
Bonny Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 Well the Mg is about -100 mesh,flake-granular.Sulfur is... well sulfur.If i may say this it peforms like flash when contained in 1 layer of toilet paper.Very powerfull and smelly. Just out of curiosity, did you try the Mg alone in 1 layer of toilet paper? It may perform very similar, but less smelly Sometimes I wish I had Mg to experiment with...
Ventsi Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 did you try the Mg alone in 1 layer of toilet paper? hehe.No,i did not.But im sure its a FP like composition [trust me i have done tests.]Im sure it warks the same way as Zn+S exept more energetic.All i wanted to know is if the composition is safe to use in devices that i can safely store? Deteriation ,autoignition,etc.
Mumbles Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 I personally wouldn't store anything containing uncoated Mg for any period of time, and especially not store any flash powders or flash containing devices.
Ventsi Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 true,true. I was planning to use in rocket headers[Mg is BRIGHT] Dont worry Mumbles im not stupid.Ill try to coat the Mg with linseed oil.Its pretty fine so that might be bother. I found a video to prove that the Sulfur acts as an oxideser. Its not mine and i dont know the person who posted it.=] But the S should react with the Magnesium ,right?
Mumbles Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 Yes, it should react with the Magnesium. If magnesium can use Nitrogen gas, and Carbon dioxide as oxidisers, I don't think sulfur will be a stretch. Mg (0) + S (0) ---> MgS (+2, -2 respectively) There is a formula that proves it acts as an oxidizer. The parentheses are the oxidation states.
Ventsi Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 So is it useable?I mean if i put it as a booster in a shell,will i find my house burned down the next day?I know its flash, but is it viable flash?
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