Random Thread #1

[psymon]

Hey optimus me old china... How did you find that on the BBC site? I mean I never even knew you could make that crap from them chemicals... Isn't red phos in swan vestas matches??? Maybe the US will bust that factory next!

[_DB_]

The Bears better win the Superbowl. I have $1 riding on this game.

[Frozentech]

The Bears better win the Superbowl. I have $1 riding on this game.

Incidentally, one of the mods here, Al93535, works for the company that made all the pyro for this Superbowl.

[Mumbles]

I mentioned this somewhere else, that there was only one possible outcome for the superbowl that I would enjoy.

 

Peyton Manning suffers a career ending injury, such as decapitation or Brett Favre giving him tbe heart rip from Indiana Jones. Then Jim Sorgi comes in and completely blows out the Bears.

 

Needless to say I dislike both teams greatly.

[DeAdFX]

Ahh horse shit... I just took a gander at my fire fox order and noticed an error. Sigh I hope they take a look at my email before they ship the stuff.. I don't want to be stuck wiht something I won't be using.

[_DB_]

Well, I lost a dollar last night. I also didn't care about either of the teams, but my friend was going for the Colts so I had to go for the Bears.

 

Also, I've been saying that I was going for the Bears mainly because of that old SNL skit with Chris Farely. It's a classic! I was finally able to say "DAAAA BEARS" and it mean something.

[pa_pyro]

Watching CSI Miami right now and have found a couple of HE misconceptions they had in this episode. First off, they said a shaped charge was used to blow a manhole coverer into a 4 ton truck and flip it over, this just doesn't sound right to me. IIRC shaped charges are meant for penetrating/puncturing with a jet not heaving things. Here is another thing i thought false quote:

"Which had more punch, the potassium perchlorate or the nitroglycerin? "

"The potassium perchlorate." It is some of the things like that that spread false rumors and help ban pyro chems.

[Frozentech]

Watching CSI Miami right now and have found a couple of HE misconceptions they had in this episode. First off, they said a shaped charge was used to blow a manhole coverer into a 4 ton truck and flip it over, this just doesn't sound right to me. IIRC shaped charges are meant for penetrating/puncturing with a jet not heaving things. Here is another thing i thought false quote:

"Which had more punch, the potassium perchlorate or the nitroglycerin? "

"The potassium perchlorate." It is some of the things like that that spread false rumors and help ban pyro chems.

Damn, I hate that quote about perchlorate !

 

As for shaped charges heaving, they can be made to push *hard* instead of cut. The same charge, held off a certain distance from the work. In 1983 I got to det a few 15 lb cratering charges designed to wreck runways. We set a 15 lb charge on an old V8 engine block and drilled an almost clean hole through the entire thing. We attached the included fin-like stand off legs, and drove the engine block a good 5 feet into the ground.

[Pretty green flame]

Well i had an argument today with someone who claimed that in times before the 16th century, Ca(NO3)2 was used as the sole oxidiser in BP formulations, this seems stupid to me as calcium nitrate is soo freaking hygroscopic that i couldn't dry it on a gas burner.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

[TheSidewinder]

That seems odd.

 

"Natural" (ie found in nature at a usable purity) ingredients were the first ones used in BP, I thought.

 

KNO3 occurs naturally, in large deposits, and at high purity (depending on where ya live of course).

 

Bat poop was a good source.

 

But Calcium Nitrate?!?! If it's as hygrospcopic as you say, I don't see how they could have used it....

 

M

[Umphrey]

Wow, I just had a terrible ordeal with LESCO. In my search for ag KNO3 I found this: http://www.lesco.com/?PageID=27&ItemNumber=500421 . I was quite happy to have found a place, so I checked my local service center online, it said call for availability. So I called them up, was told I'd have to stop by, as they don't update their online stock that often. No matter I thought, it's only 20 minutes away.

 

This was a couple days ago, the weather finally warmed up enough today to drive. When I arrived, almost from the start, I was treated like utter shit. It took about 3 minutes for this guy to open a door, I was thinking maybe they were closed, but no, I'm just getting ready to go, as I'm standing out in the cold, then this guy with a booming voice yells out at me "WHAT DO YOU WANT!?", as if I'm there solely as a nuisance, he seemed angry that a customer would dare show up. I told him I was looking to buy some fertilizer. He lets me in, and 10 seconds later he asks again, in the same loud voice, right by my ear this time, "WELL, WHAT DO YOU NEED?" I told him I was looking to buy some potassium nitrate, I handed him the printout from the site. He immediately asks "WHAT ARE YOU USING IT FOR?" I reply "For my tomato garden this spring" He tells me they have a premade mixes just for that, He points me to a sack of "Tomato & Vegetable Fertilizer 8-4-5" I told him no thanks, I prefer to mix up my own NPK fertilizer, I ask if he has the Potassium Nitrate in stock again. He pressures me to go for the tomato & vegetable fertilizer, saying that it would work better. I ask him yet again if the Potassium Nitrate was in stock, so he immediately asks me "YOU AREN'T MAKING BOMBS WITH IT, ARE YOU?" I tell him no, he asks me for some identification, I show him my driver's license, he looks at it for over a minute, like he expected it to be a fake. He then informs me "Sorry, I can't sell to you.", I ask why, he tells me that "You don't need this for tomatoes." Then suggests that I'd really just use it to blow up mailboxes or destroy people's property. I tell him yet again that I merely want it for my garden. He then goes on a tirade about how Tim Mcveigh used this to kill innocent people, and that I surely--someone wanting to buy only one bag--had the same intent. I tell him no, and that I thought Timothy mcveigh had used Ammonium Nitrate. He told me he'd contact the FBI over this. I said I'd have to take my business elsewhere, and that I didn't come here to be treated like a criminal.

 

 

 

As I'm leaving, he comes outside and writes down my license plate.

 

This was quite shocking to me, while I have no hostile intent, I don't exactly trust the FBI or government to believe me. I'm still searching for a local source for Potassium Nitrate. This experience has made me nervous about all the other greenhouses, garden centers, and nurseries I've called.

 

Do I have anything to worry about?

[Frozentech]

Well i had an argument today with someone who claimed that in times before the 16th century, Ca(NO3)2 was used as the sole oxidiser in BP formulations, this seems stupid to me as calcium nitrate is soo freaking hygroscopic that i couldn't dry it on a gas burner.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

No way. A lot of effort was put into removing the calcium nitrate, which was present in the raw saltpeter. Part of the smelly, messy business of refining KNO3 from manure and barnyard dirt, etc., was adding wood ashes to the brew. The potash (Potassium Carbonate) would react with the Calcium Nitrate to form insoluble Calcium Carbonate which was filtered out. You are correct that Calcium Nitrate in the powder would wreck it.

[ewest]

Do I have anything to worry about?

I seriously doubt it. The guy just sounded like an A-hole, you probably woke him up from a nap or something. What you were doing is all perfectly legal.

 

The FBI isn't going to be interested in you unless you were trying to buy a Ryder truck full of fertilizer.

 

You don't get scared placing an order with Firefox or Skylighter do you? And everyone knows those guys are being watched.

 

Just don't ever do anything illegal or foolish, like make ground salutes and shoot them in your backyard or something. Obey all the laws about where to shoot things and how to store what you've made and you'll be fine.

[pa_pyro]

If you want to buy a sack from another place say you have a large number of stumps on your property that need to be rotted/gotten rid of. When you ask for a fertilizer for some reason red flags are shot up in ignorant peoples minds...

[DeAdFX]

SNIP

 

I was quite happy to have found a place, so I checked my local service center online, it said call for availability. So I called them up, was told I'd have to stop by, as they don't update their online stock that often. No matter I thought, it's only 20 minutes away.

Hmm.. Interesting. When I bought fertilizer from my local source (with my parents) we didn't get much crap. They made a few quips about it and we had a little political discussion and that was it. I think they were aware of what we were going to use it for. I think he gave you crap because of your age?[i am assuming you around 20....]

[Boomer]

Umphrey I understand he gave you shit for trying to buy fertilizer? If they treat us like that, we won't buy any more fertilizer there, it's that simple. I mean we won't BUY any more fertilizer there.

 

Did I mention there is a certain farm supply in my town with so much turnover their shed is overfilled. They have literally tons and tons of nitrates on pallets outside, 20 sacks a' 110 pounds on each, under a roof. Some sacks have holes, like if a fork lift truck has hit them.

A very silent, sneaky fork lift truck at 3 a.m. with a bucket in each hand....

[DeAdFX]

Hmm... PotassiuM perchlorate makes some pretty bright blues... To bad they look fairly faded. Prehaps if I mix in a little Ammonium Perchlorate or Potassium chlorate I might get a darker blue.

 

 

Hmm I just replaced my copper compound from the (II) oxide to (II) tartrate. Tartrate seems to produce less light( lower brightness) which is a lot nicer on the eyes. Also the burn rate seems to go down quite a bit along with ease of ignitablility. I think I will replace a majority (80% or so) of the (II) oxide with the (II) tartrate. The flame envelope appeared to stay the same.

 

A formula I was dinking around with was

 

30 Ammonium Perchlorate

25 Potassium Perchlorate

10 PVC

10 Copper tartrate

15 sulfur (dusting)

5 Charcoal (activated)

 

hmm now that I look at the numbers I should of balanced this out to 100... god damn me. O well I will toss in an extra 5% NH4 Perchlorate. I think I might swap the 5% charcoal with 5% hexamine or 5% more oxidizer[unknown which one].

 

The blue had a little yellow in it too=( [not from sodium contamination but from the organic component of the compisition]

[cplmac]

Blue is a bitch. Let me know if you have any luck. I've tried about six formulas so far and they mostly sucked, a couple were more white than blue. Got some Cu Oxychloride coming in tomorrow, I have my fingers crossed that it helps.

 

As for buying nitrate at a greenhouse, I wouldn't be worried. The ATFE doesn't have a problem with hobby pyro so long as you aren't distributing or making boomers. Your local law enforcement however tend to be much more overbearing and ignorant of the rules.

[Mumbles]

The only blues I've ever been completely satisfied with are completely chlorate based. Here's one from Dave Stoddard from PML. Slight modification from one from Shimizu.

 

Blue Star

 

Potassium Chlorate ........ 64.5 %

Red Gum ................... 9.9

Cupric Oxide .............. 13.4

Parlon .................... 5.4

Charcoal .................. 2.0

SGRS (Binder) ............. 4.8

 

Lights easily, burns fast, good blue color.

[DeAdFX]

Wow Chlorate really works nicely in blues as you said.

 

 

This was my formula...

 

6.4 KClO3

.5 Cupric Oxide

1.5 Cupric Tartrate

1.6 Dusting sulfur [90% sulfur 10% unknown)

~1.1* Polyvinyl Chloride Powder

 

 

 

*the scale was fluctuating between 1 and 1.1 grams. It was going to b e but I accidently added to much in.

 

6 KClO3

.5 Cupric Oxide

1.5 Cupric Tartrate

1.5 Sulfur

1 PVC

 

 

The is my darkest blue yet. The flame is fairly bright even in the day time. I was left with an optical illusion in my vision. There is some carbon gunk left over after combustion. I might need to mix the compisition a little better or maybe add more O2. The compistion takes fire really easily.

 

My only issue is the usage of sulfur with Chlorate. I really should test my sulfur with a drop of HCl to see if it has carbonate present in it. I keep saying this but never get around to it... sigh

[optimus]

I've had good success with this formula from REC.PYRO

 

60 parts of ammonium perchlorate

10 parts of sulfur

10 parts of dextrin

12 parts of polyvinyl chloride (if you use Parlon, add further 2 parts of

dextrin)

20 parts of copper(II)oxide

 

Chlorate lactose-fuelled blues are also very deep.

[DeAdFX]

wow holy shit. Ammonium Nitrate makes a pretty medium/dark blue color. HOWEVER! The flame envelope is shit[fairly small]. The compisition takes fire with difficultly. Burn rate is fairly sluggish. Ammonium Dichromate is maditory for the compistion to work. Ammonium Nitrate might make an awesome blue in conjuction with Ammonium Perchlorate by having a lower average flame temperature.

 

 

Here are two compisitions that I used

 

Ammonium Nitrate 7

Ammonium Dichromate 1

PVC Powder 1

Copper (II) Oxide 1

 

Ammonium Nitrate 10

Ammonium Dichromate 1

PVC powder 1

Copper (II) Oxide 1

Magnesium Powder 1

 

 

The mg variant sucks even more. I was hoping it would of helped with ignitability and what not but it makes the comp worse[comp strobes a bit], sparks like crazy and kills a majority of the blue. Prehaps half or even less Mg might work...

 

I am thinking might be a pretyt good blue

 

Ammonium Nitrate 7

Ammonium Dichromate 1

Copper (I) Chloride 1.5

PVC .25-.5

Low temp burning fuel .5-1

[Kilo_G]

Wow, I just had a terrible ordeal with LESCO. In my search for ag KNO3 I found this: http://www.lesco.com/?PageID=27&ItemNumber=500421 . I was quite happy to have found a place, so I checked my local service center online, it said call for availability. So I called them up, was told I'd have to stop by, as they don't update their online stock that often. No matter I thought, it's only 20 minutes away.

 

This was a couple days ago, the weather finally warmed up enough today to drive. When I arrived, almost from the start, I was treated like utter shit. It took about 3 minutes for this guy to open a door, I was thinking maybe they were closed, but no, I'm just getting ready to go, as I'm standing out in the cold, then this guy with a booming voice yells out at me "WHAT DO YOU WANT!?", as if I'm there solely as a nuisance, he seemed angry that a customer would dare show up. I told him I was looking to buy some fertilizer. He lets me in, and 10 seconds later he asks again, in the same loud voice, right by my ear this time, "WELL, WHAT DO YOU NEED?" I told him I was looking to buy some potassium nitrate, I handed him the printout from the site. He immediately asks "WHAT ARE YOU USING IT FOR?" I reply "For my tomato garden this spring" He tells me they have a premade mixes just for that, He points me to a sack of "Tomato & Vegetable Fertilizer 8-4-5" I told him no thanks, I prefer to mix up my own NPK fertilizer, I ask if he has the Potassium Nitrate in stock again. He pressures me to go for the tomato & vegetable fertilizer, saying that it would work better. I ask him yet again if the Potassium Nitrate was in stock, so he immediately asks me "YOU AREN'T MAKING BOMBS WITH IT, ARE YOU?" I tell him no, he asks me for some identification, I show him my driver's license, he looks at it for over a minute, like he expected it to be a fake. He then informs me "Sorry, I can't sell to you.", I ask why, he tells me that "You don't need this for tomatoes." Then suggests that I'd really just use it to blow up mailboxes or destroy people's property. I tell him yet again that I merely want it for my garden. He then goes on a tirade about how Tim Mcveigh used this to kill innocent people, and that I surely--someone wanting to buy only one bag--had the same intent. I tell him no, and that I thought Timothy mcveigh had used Ammonium Nitrate. He told me he'd contact the FBI over this. I said I'd have to take my business elsewhere, and that I didn't come here to be treated like a criminal.

 

 

 

As I'm leaving, he comes outside and writes down my license plate.

 

This was quite shocking to me, while I have no hostile intent, I don't exactly trust the FBI or government to believe me. I'm still searching for a local source for Potassium Nitrate. This experience has made me nervous about all the other greenhouses, garden centers, and nurseries I've called.

 

Do I have anything to worry about?

Do him one better. Call the FBI and tell them he's selling Ammonium Nitrate to white supremacists or arabs and you think he also sold them Nitro Methane. Wanna talk about a million flies on a ten pound pile of shit.

 

Actually that was just a joke, because it would be illegal for you to lie like that, so don't actually do it, but you shoulda said that to him while he was writing your license plate number down, I would have.

 

~~~~OoOoOoOoOoO~~~~ boogie boogie boogie I'm calling the FBI on you for potassium nitrate. What an ass mechanic.

 

You should drive back there just to say "fuck you" to him.

[Umphrey]

Thanks for the info everyone. I'm not worried anymore--I think the guy was just a jackass, probably too lazy to actually contact the fbi anyway.

 

In othernews, I acquired a couple gallons of sucralose sweetener. I know the little packets of "splenda" sweetener only have a fraction % sucralose in them, but this jug lists it as "25% sucralose by WEIGHT." I tasted a drop on my tongue, it was EXTREMELY sweet, like the sweetest thing I ever tasted. I'm curious to try it as a rocket fuel, it may even serve as a limited chlorine donor. I've calculated its chlorine content to be 26.75%, which is quite low. But it still may make an interesting sugar rocket propellent, particularly in terms of colored flame.

 

I'm a bit stumped as to how to extract it though. I boiled down 500mL sweetener to 125mL, it just became a thick syrup. I boiled this down to ~50mL, it just turned into a sticky mess which I ended up discarding. I boiled 250mL sweetener down to 200mL, I cooled this to -20°c. Nothing precipitated. I added 800mL water to this 200mL and stirred it in, I then cooled it back down to -20°c. It froze solid. I placed 10mL sweetener on a glass plate, I heated this plate to 100°c for 1 hour. It just made a sticky brown blob.

 

I'm considering boiling down some concentrate to the proper consistency and using this in place of corn syrup in Jimmy Yawn's RCANDY propellent. I still would like to have sucralose to test as a fuel on its own though. I'll get some photos up in a few days.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to extract it?

[Mephistos Minion]

Yo fools just dropping in. Been on holidays and working now I am back at school.

 

My new chem teacher loves me . My HDD crashed and I lost alot of my pyro info. I wanted to do a rainbow flames experiment with KClO3/Fuel/Colour agent. I have access to a whole private school laboratory. I want red, green, blue, yellow and purple if I can. Anyone got and tips on it? I have to write up a whole procedure and shit, which I can do off the top of my head but I can't remember all the formulae (IE what I can use for the colours without too many different chems). I know Sr red, Ba green, NA yellow Cu blue and all that but which salts can I use with KClO3 and a fuel (sugar maybe?)