TheSidewinder Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 There's no way your "BP" detonated. It can't. Period. Sounds like what you lit wasn't what you thought it was..... M
AprenticeChemist Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 Yea theres no way the BP would of detonated especially not that small ammount. Ive lit piles up to 25grams at one time and the most its done is just make foot long fireballs. Im going to agree with aqua man you probably had some other explosive to close to it. Which isn't such a good thing you should try to make sure when lighting compositions that theres nothing else bad around it because it could end up bad like what you had happen. Well I did another nitration this time I didn't do as much using only 250mls of each acid. I ended up with about a 70gram yeild of nice NC. I got about 30 more grams from it to take home so right now I have about 60 grams that I plan on detonating once I have some free time to make the primaries. Luckily theres still some snow on the mountains so I could do a nice ass snow det. Also I went to take some more thermometers from my trunk since I got some more from the school. I got about 10 more most were already broken so yea sadly one had broken where the actual Hg is while in my car so I had to get it cleaned up(Not the car the thing that had the Hg in it my car didnt get any in it). So after extracting the Hg from the broken ones I have at least 20-30grams of mercury and god damn is it fucking sexy. I had it in my hand and took a quater and set it on it. It was fucking sweeter then sweet it stayed on top(Knew it would duh density laws and such) but when you push it down it pops back up really awesome stuff. Next week im doing NI3 for the class at school. Ill probably also do another Silver Acetylide synth. Man seriously EVERYone should take a year long break from pyro. Sounds retarded but trust me after a year of pyro everything is 100000 times better then before because you have been waiting so long so its like WOW halalujah. Also anyway I could get into the HE section I PMed mumbles a week ago or so and no reply yet.
aquaman Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 Mumbles has been gone for a week and he's due back soon. ApreticeChemist- Are you sure you want to make NI3 for your class? If I were you I would try to synth something that is less sensitive. If you do, make small amounts.
AprenticeChemist Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 Yea I am pretty sure. Ive synthed it a few times. Im not exactly a noob, I do know what im doing. But good looking because I mean you probably dont know me since I stopped really posting here at APC a while back and could have been a noob. Its really sensitive stuff but its not that powerfull, the sensitivity is insane ive had it go off from wind. That sucked I had synthed some at home and had it outside on some filter paper to dry and I came back an hour later and tried to det one and was like WTF? And then I looked a little closer and noticed it was brown and holes in the paper. Pissed me off I wanted to video tape it. Oh I have some pictures of the NC I synthed its not best pictures since I took them with my camera phone but it gives you a somewhat idea of how much NC there is. Ill have to post it later.
Chris Posted March 18, 2006 Posted March 18, 2006 BP can detonate but the detonable mass is about 50 lbs.
TheSidewinder Posted March 19, 2006 Posted March 19, 2006 With all due respect, BP *CANNOT* detonate, no matter how much of it you pile up. Make a big freaking explosion? Yes. Detonate? No. I assume by "detonate", we are talking about BP's ability (or inability, in this case) to spontaneously explode (conflagrate, actually)from the pressure wave of previously exploding BP? That can't happen. BP is a subsonic explosive, and does not produce supersonic pressure waves as HE's do. That's not to say it won't cause damage, it will. But nowhere near what a good HE can do. Or so I've been told and read from reliable sources. If you can provide a link that says otherwise, please do. I want to read it... M
Draco_Aster Posted March 19, 2006 Posted March 19, 2006 Plus, theres nothing in blackpowder to sustain a detonation. Hehe, I had to lock everything in the shed up today because of the tropical cyclone that headed directly towards us It only happens a few times a year here But I dont want H2SO4 flying around the place
RUUUUUN Posted March 19, 2006 Posted March 19, 2006 There were no other explosives near it and it WAS black Powder. The only thing I can come up with is, I used the same filter for the BP as I did for an AP synth a few days before, there may have been slight residue left on the filter. Most of the BP burns fine, only a few chunks have detonated. Oh, and it WAS detonation.
Swany Posted March 19, 2006 Posted March 19, 2006 'Fraid not, Mister Run. I do belive that the AP paper did cause it all to go at once, literally, and perhaps the AP detonated causing the BP to all deflegrate at once. This would be my personal theory. There have been reports of BP detonating, but, in amounts of less than many tons, I would be highly skeptical. Detonation would be pathetic, and not very plausible, if not practically impossible IMHO. If a large pile of BP is initated instantaniously, I belive it could cause the damage you described, and that is the only very plausible explination. I wont really take sides on the whole detonation issue, though, who cares? Even if it *can* detonate, perhaps dirt could, if one tried hard enough, no? If you can detonate BP, you really have too much BP or time on your hands. Perhaps both. Oh wells.
justanotherpyro Posted March 19, 2006 Posted March 19, 2006 Indeed Swany. Who cares if BP can detonate. Lesson learned, don't clean an area with chemicals on/around it with a torch. Use a rag or something unless the thoughts of losing a limb entertain you.
Chris Posted March 19, 2006 Posted March 19, 2006 TheSidewinder, if you are absoluetly sure then I believe you. However, I remember a text I read a while ago which indicated that after exceeding the critical mass of 50 lbs(?), BP could go through supersonic detonation, or however you say it. Anyway, if it's not true then I apologize for the confusion.
TheSidewinder Posted March 19, 2006 Posted March 19, 2006 Hey Chris, I'm not claiming what I read and heard is Gospel, but from what I know of the chemistry of BP, combined with what I heard, it simply cannot detonate. It sure can burn FAST, though. As an aside (hey, this *is* the random thread), explosions in factories dedicated to making BP have long been a fact of life. There are many stories about such disasters in our country's history. Given what I've seen in photos and museums that show how it used to be done, I'm amazed it didn't happen a lot more often. IIRC, DuPont had a powder factory in this general area (Upper Midwest) back in the 1800's that went kaboom and killed hundreds of local residents as well as the entire factory crew. Besides, in an explosion of several hundred tons of BP, I don't think anyone caught in the blast is going to give a shit whether the BP detonated or "just $%#@& blew up". M
Zeppelin Posted March 19, 2006 Posted March 19, 2006 Here's a video of my little cannon fireing with it's tube half full of bp. I had to light it twice thanks to my crappy blackmatch. Video
maximusg Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 That cannon looks really cool. Tried with a projectile yet mate?
BigBang Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Draco, now you know how I feel. At least you are farther inland, I'm fairly close to the coast, so I get hit harder. BP self confines at 500 lbs, not 50. As a little proof to just a small amount not "deting", watch po's 1 Kg burning. I heard no boom. Swany, I like your idea for AP induced ignition of the entire pile. It is a plausible explanation.
Zeppelin Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 There was something in the barrel, i think it was half of a q-tip. If i can get some of those plastic cones from the end of bottle rockets soon they fit in there perfectly.
Guest pyrokid00000 Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Well i got bored and mixed vasoline to my kno3 sugar smoke mix. I put it in a tube and did not press it. It burned really REALLY fast with blue and red flames. Then i did the same thing but i pressed it. This burned slow, but with alot of smoke. Anyone ever do this? By the way the comp was 3 parts kno33 parts sugar1 parts vasoline Just if anyone wants to try it.
Mumbles Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 There is a difference between self confining and detonation. Setting off BP or flash powder with a high explosive does initiate a faster burn rate due to the increased pressure around the grains. The flame front goes through the whole mass pretty much instantly, rather than if it is burning on it's own. It works on the same concept as why shell burst charges may burn slow on the ground alone, but have a very high burn rate inside of shells. Bigbang is right with the critical weight at around 500 pounds.
AprenticeChemist Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Well technically couldn't you detonate BP not just by lighting it? I mean it is 75% KNO3 and it is possible to detonate KNO3 by itself although extremly hard(so ive heard). So it could be possible to detonate a shit load of it. Also bigbang if the ammount of BP required to self confine is over 50lbs then someone lighting 1kg of BP would not prove that it doesnt detonate. Because 1kg would obviously be way under the required amount for self confining.
Mumbles Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 KNO3 is arguable about it's detonatability. It is not energetically probable to detonate, as AN is.
_Po_ Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 And let's not forget that the reason behind my igniting 1kg of BP was due to the use of wet charcoal which for every mL of water decreased 1g of C from the composition. I burnt it because it was shitty, basically. I was thinking about lighting another 1kg, but this time with good BP. It's be a fuckload more impressive than that crappy stuff. On the weekend I got a Canon MVX330i. It takes awesome still photos, but only at 1.3mp. But still, being able to focus like 10mm from an object, and the quality of the picture shown by the 200kb for a 640x480 photo, it's pretty sweet. The 18x optical zoom is cool too (old camera had 4x digital zoom with a broken button so I couldn't use it). The video seems great too. Clear and well coloured. Only problem is the bitch at the shop told us we could tranfer the video files from the tapes in the camera to PC using USB when in actual fact it needs firewire. I was rather pissed off when I found that out. After two days away from a computer and getting so excited about using the videos I was mighty let down...Bastards...Now I have to buy a firewire card and cable and shit. Lucky they're only cheap or I'd drive 250km back to the shop and kick Keith's teeths.
BigBang Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Also bigbang if the ammount of BP required to self confine is over 50lbs then someone lighting 1kg of BP would not prove that it doesnt detonate. Because 1kg would obviously be way under the required amount for self confining. Those are two separate statements reflecting the same problem, a small pile of BP going kaboom. I gave the actual data (critical mass of 500lbs) and proof that piles larger than say 12 grams, which is a nice little pile, does not self confine by showing a pile MUCH large not self confining. I spose I could have been clearer but I thought I got the point across
Swany Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 I still love you. I ordered 3 lbs of Hg metal. This really should be in occasional happiness, but this also means that I am broke again. And I need money.
justanotherpyro Posted March 20, 2006 Posted March 20, 2006 Oh boo-hoo. At least you can buy 3 pounds of mercury I'm fighting for next months car insurance payment. I've only made 1 internet order for chems and 2 for fuse. Not including the order that I got royally, and I mean royally fucked over by DavidThePyro.
Swany Posted March 21, 2006 Posted March 21, 2006 Hey, I have a very lucrative endeavor working for me, and finally my intelligence and lack of a 'normal' life has, is, paying off. I don't sell my stuff, or make drugs for people. That would be even more lucrative, but, alas, I have morals. Plus, making drugs is the reason that we have so many controls on these much loved chems... I do feel for you, getting fucked by DTP. I heard about that shit... not good.
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