Swede Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Obama is going to disappoint millions of people with his inability to conjure and do magic. There are too many problems facing us for anyone to "fix" things quickly. Here's the deal on Gitmo - 98% of those guys want to kill us all. No joke. They are not innocent people. Of course some of them who are completely innocent got caught up in the dragnet, and that is unfortunate. But what SHOULD have been done was what TheSidewinder said... The Rules of War allow the execution of those caught in combat fighting out of uniform. In WW2, they were lined up and shot... by both sides. That is why it was so dangerous to be a spy or partisan in WW2... if you were caught, you were hung or shot, legally. The retroactive solution was battlefield execution... get the intel, then have them shot according to the rules of war. The outcry at the time would have been horrendous, but there would be no Gitmo and no terrorists, and by now it would have been nearly forgotten. They are NOT U.S. citizens and are not authorized the normal civil protections (like habeus corpus), nor are they due a trial in a U.S. court - the trial should have happened in the field, according to military rule. By not acting decisively at the time, we are left with a sticky mess.
Pretty green flame Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 TBH, when i walked in that voting booth, i placed my finger over the mccain button, looked away, pressed firmly, then choked back the vomit. C'mon dude, can't be that bad, can it? it's disgusting to see an admitted socialist placing his hand on the bible and being sworn in as president of this formally great nation. Mind explaining why such hatred toward Socialists? I think it'd be rather hard to hate socialism, as, to my knowledge, it was not present in the US (as a political power).
andyboy Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Here's the deal on Gitmo - 98% of those guys want to kill us all. In WW2, they were lined up and shot... by both sides. That is why it was so dangerous to be a spy or partisan in WW2... if you were caught, you were hung or shot, legally. They are NOT U.S. citizens and are not authorized the normal civil protections (like habeus corpus), nor are they due a trial in a U.S. court - the trial should have happened in the field, according to military rule. By not acting decisively at the time, we are left with a sticky mess. To bad for the 2% then, fuck them. The youngest was a 12 year old, but hey, he was a terrorist (throwing firecrackers at tanks perhaps?) I would rather be shot at once then live in a limbo, not being charged with a crime still being subject to hard interrogation. Not being charged with a crime means not being able to defend yourself, but anyway... Not being a US citizens means nothing, if the US where to charge them for a crime they are entitled to the privileges of the same judicial system that you or any other US citizen have I.E. a lawyer, the right to know what they are being accused of, just cause and the prosecutor would have to supply information about things that would be beneficial to the accused. On the other hand, if they were prisoners of war, the Geneva Convention would abide and the US would still have to give them the right to a trial, a military trial but none the less. This is the reason the US came up with the term unlawful combatants! The point I'm making is the same as you are (in a way), kill them in the act of terrorism or charge them with a crime, don't detain them for 3 years and then let them go.
ST1DinOH Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 C'mon dude, can't be that bad, can it? Mind explaining why such hatred toward Socialists? I think it'd be rather hard to hate socialism, as, to my knowledge, it was not present in the US (as a political power). first yes, yes it is that bad. McCain and the most recient round of "republicans" have been nothing but RINO's. a republican, by definition, should believe in the republic, capitalism, and liberty/freedoms. instead we have a bunch of placating tools who want to please the idiot masses with handouts and politically correct horseshit that harms the country (like amnesty for illegal immigrants, "free" health care , etc...). point is McCain was a douchebag, i only pressed that button because i hated obama more and because i wanted a voice of reason and logic in the seat to veto the dem's garbage. now they are just free to do whatever they want which is dangerous if you've ever heard piloci, reed, shumer, obama, or any of the other socialists on the hill. and yes...socialism is a complete clusterfuck. it doesn't work in a country our size. when you tell people the nanny state will take care of them they abuse it. when you reward people who fail in life, this only encourages such behavior. handing someone a check for pumping out illegitimate children only encourages that person to produce more dependents. if you want to help poor people, you make it uncomfortable to be poor. you don't set it up so people on welfare make more money than people who work. why should the money i earn, be taken from me, and given to people who didn't earn it? if i give someone money, thats charity. if you take my money, and give it to someone else, thats theft. i don't think laziness and failure should be rewarded via theft by legislation. no offense to any of you living in a "socialist" country, but i can't find any time in history where socialism has turned out to be a good thing for the country. most of them either crash and burn or exist mired in their own crap leaching off neighboring countries and the UN. no thanks. socialism in this country will be an abject nightmare made of fail and theft, and i want no part of it.
andyboy Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 And yes...socialism is a complete clusterfuck. it doesn't work in a country our size. When you tell people the nanny state will take care of them they abuse it. when you reward people who fail in life, this only encourages such behavior. handing someone a check for pumping out illegitimate children only encourages that person to produce more dependents. If you want to help poor people, you make it uncomfortable to be poor. you don't set it up so people on welfare make more money than people who work. Why should the money i earn, be taken from me, and given to people who didn't earn it? I don't think laziness and failure should be rewarded via theft by legislation. no offense to any of you living in a "socialist" country. I live in a socialist country (sort of) where things worked pretty OK for a rather long time, you made some money, the government taxed some of it and gave it to those who needed (like me, in the form of free healthcare when my children where born, the roads I drive on...). Now, there came some people, lets call them rag-heads, from a desolate place that we could call Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia or whatever other shit-hole you can think of. These persons found out that they could get all the benefits that the Swedish population had without ever having to work one single fucking day in their miserable fucking lifes. This made them call all their relatives and say: Hey, free food, free everything. Now this country can't even support the old folks that have paid taxes their entire lives, socialism will never work unless you have a whip and a carrot.
Chris Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 (edited) I live in a socialist country (sort of) where things worked pretty OK for a rather long time, you made some money, the government taxed some of it and gave it to those who needed (like me, in the form of free healthcare when my children where born, the roads I drive on...). Now, there came some people, lets call them rag-heads, from a desolate place that we could call Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia or whatever other shit-hole you can think of. These persons found out that they could get all the benefits that the Swedish population had without ever having to work one single fucking day in their miserable fucking lifes. This made them call all their relatives and say: Hey, free food, free everything. Now this country can't even support the old folks that have paid taxes their entire lives, socialism will never work unless you have a whip and a carrot. I really feel for you and your country! Here in Finland, we have managed to keep immigration and it's symptoms on a bareable level, since neighboring countries(like yours) offer better social benefits and thus seem more appealing to immigrants. However, I hate to see how your government has welcomed every singe fortune seeker and freeloader on the expense of your own native citizens. What I see, the situations has recently gotten really out of control. Unfortunately it's hard to do anything about the situation. Fortunately for us, our government has started to turn down immigration applicants in increasing numbers lately. Our government has also managed to deport constant trouble makers back to the shitholes they once crawled from. I am really pissed at governments who suck up to European Union standards in pursuit of a more and more united bureaucracy oriented Europe. As far as I am concerned, the EU has brought nothing but added expenses and other inconveniences to the honest taxpayers, the immigrations problem being among the smallest. By looking at conditions in France, you can get a clue how fucked up a Bruxels lead Europe can be. Edited January 22, 2009 by Chris
Brakkie Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Same situation that goes for Andyboy goes for me and fellow dutch people... A lot of people cashing in on "unemployement" checks and having their "black" (mostly) criminal jobs on the side... IMO there's only one adventage on the EU, it's the opening of the borders which makes traveling and postage a lot easier. Even before I started with Pyro I had problems getting international packages and sometimes it would literally take weeks! But then again... the opening of the borders is what caused the problem Andyboy described... *Goes to look for an island somewhere in the middle of nowhere*
DeAdFX Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Ughh socialized health care. I honestly can't for the life of me understand why someone would want the individual to bare the burden of a few million other people. How do I know for a fact that my own country men are as "responsible" as I am? How do I know that they aren't participating in questionable acts that will jeopardize their well being which in turn will come out of my own pocket? Having a safety net is nice but its called paying for your stupidy/lack of foresight/whatever the hell on your own god damn dime. When government allows darwinism to run its course, it weeds out the weak, the sick, and the old indiscriminately and viciously. This is how things should be ran. The only thing people are entitled to is what they have worked/labored for.
hst45 Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand if you want to see where we are. It's a 900 page read, but Dagny Taggert is hot I just hope that Hank Reardon can outlast Wesley Mouch (played today by Barney Frank). It's stunning how Miss Rand had our journey into the maelstrom figured out 40 years ago. ...I wonder if Reardonmetal could be used with an oxidizer in a comet...
Pretty green flame Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Oh come on, "Socialized" health care is the best thing, it's not just that you pay for other, others also pay for your needs, prescription drugs, surgery... Sure there are people who exploit this (they should be deported) but what's wrong with helping your fellow countrymen? DeadFX, I honestly doubt you would stand your ground on this opinion if someone close to you fell ill....
ST1DinOH Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Read "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand if you want to see where we are. It's a 900 page read, but Dagny Taggert is hot I just hope that Hank Reardon can outlast Wesley Mouch (played today by Barney Frank). It's stunning how Miss Rand had our journey into the maelstrom figured out 40 years ago. ...I wonder if Reardonmetal could be used with an oxidizer in a comet... i completely agree with this post, with one exception, Atlas shrugged was written 51-52 years ago. she predicted the nationalization of industry, the handout culture, the notion of feelings trumping logic and reason, the demonizing of private ownership and capitalism, legislation regarding price fixing and regulating "fairness" in contracts, restricting supply to profitable companies... hell she even foretasted the return of pirates (although Ragnar Danneskjöld was a "good guy" in her book). and don't forget one of the other books she wrote..."the virtue of selfishness" which obama referenced on the trail as a bad thing. the whole inclusion of "parasites", "looters", and "moochers" is the most telling point of all. it's spooky prophetic and i encourage everyone to read it. yes, it weighs a ton, but if reading that much is too much, consider the audio version (still 40 hours of audio). just to give you an idea, there is a speech given by a main character in the book which took her two years to write. anyone who is "on the fence" or who supports obama and the neo-socialists/progressives should be required to read atlas shrugged. it'll change your life. Oh come on, "Socialized" health care is the best thing, it's not just that you pay for other, others also pay for your needs, prescription drugs, surgery... Sure there are people who exploit this (they should be deported) but what's wrong with helping your fellow countrymen? DeadFX, I honestly doubt you would stand your ground on this opinion if someone close to you fell ill.... it's a scam you'll never convince me that it's fair for working, contributing members of society to be forced to pay for the medical needs of everybody. when we have wide open boarders that allow anyone to sneak in and freeload off the goods and hard work of another how is that fair to me? it's theft there is no other way to describe it. taking my money by force and giving it to someone else, is theft. here's an easy example made popular by one of my favorite economists/constitutional scholars (Walter E Williams) lets say there is an old lady in your neighborhood who's too old to mow her own lawn. if you go over there, and mow her lawn, thats charity. we can all agree, that is a great thing, it's the nice thing to do. but then would you support the community forcing you to mow her lawn? if the community got together, drew your name out of a hat and decided that you must mow her lawn...is that not slavery? forced labor against your will, thats slavery is it not? ok so we can agree that forcing you to mow her lawn is wrong right? well then where do you draw the line? is it ok with you if rather than forcing you to mow her lawn, they force you to fork over 40 bucks a week to a lawn care company to pay for her lawn to get mowed? well i'm sure a majority of people would object to that, but now you start having a small segment of the population say "well thats not so bad, as long as i don't have to mow it i guess i'll pay for it". well thats still theft and it's still wrong. but now lets say rather than forcing you to mow the lawn, or forcing you to pay for the lawn getting mowed, the community decides that everyone in the community should be forced to pay $0.25 a week to contribute to a fund, that pays for the old ladies lawn to be mowed... well here is where you get the largest number of people to accept it. this is where people just don't care about the theft because it's on such a small scale. it's not enough to get pissed off about, but it's still theft. when i decide i don't want to give that old lady my quarter this week because i just can't spare it, the IRS shows up, audits me, and takes my home and car and auctions it off to the community. if i walk up to you and ask you for a dollar, it's your choice to give it to me, and if you do, thats charity. if i walk up to you and hold a gun to your head and say "give me a dollar", and you do out of fear of the repercussions, thats armed robbery. the IRS is that gun. socialism is strong armed robbery. infrastructure (roads, bridges, schools) is one thing, but taking my money to pay for the medical needs of some illegal alien who snuck in to steal my money...thats just wrong.
Pretty green flame Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Fair enough, you make a valid point.
ST1DinOH Posted January 23, 2009 Posted January 23, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Canada have socialized medicine? I've heard of long waits to see specialists, long waits for treatment of many kinds and generally sub-par care. To the point that those who can, come to the US for anything serious. These are anecdotal, BTW- I have no dog in that particular fight, one way or the other (Canada's health care system, I mean). You'd have a hard, well, impossible time convincing me that the gov't. knows how to best spend my money when it comes to health care- or anything else, for that matter. This forced reallocation of funds would've started a war in a different era. ever been to the BMV? do you want you hospitals ran like that?
Miech Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 I think so. Lets make a poll and democratically decide wether we need it or not .
Yankie Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 A bit off topic, but I am having trouble getting Parlon for a decent price. upon googling chlorinated rubber I found quite a few results reffering to pool paint/liners. I suspect they are parlon dissolved in a solvent, more than likely with other additives. If you could find one that was reletavely pure parlon you could work out the parlon content per litre, then add the solution to the star composition to not only wet it, but bind it and add the chlorine.
mormanman Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Do we need a politics thread guys?I already made one. LOL, thanks guys.
DeAdFX Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Oh come on, "Socialized" health care is the best thing, it's not just that you pay for other, others also pay for your needs, prescription drugs, surgery... Sure there are people who exploit this (they should be deported) but what's wrong with helping your fellow countrymen? DeadFX, I honestly doubt you would stand your ground on this opinion if someone close to you fell ill.... Solution: Well hopefully I have a high paying job before any of my close ones come down with something severe. Life is life... People come and go. Without gettin to much into details. My opinion on death has changed a lot after a lot of my friends/other people from high school kicked the bucket(non health related reasons).
Swede Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 A bit off topic, but I am having trouble getting Parlon for a decent price. upon googling chlorinated rubber I found quite a few results reffering to pool paint/liners. I suspect they are parlon dissolved in a solvent, more than likely with other additives. If you could find one that was reletavely pure parlon you could work out the parlon content per litre, then add the solution to the star composition to not only wet it, but bind it and add the chlorine. Yankie, this sounds like a great idea to me. Have you tried it? Maybe a pool store has a small "Patch" kit for pool repair.
Yankie Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 Yankie, this sounds like a great idea to me. Have you tried it? Maybe a pool store has a small "Patch" kit for pool repair. I haven't been near a pool store yet, next time I go into town I will have a look. What other names would parlon come under? Theres Chlorinated Rubber and Pergut (probably a manufacturing company), know of any others?
Bonny Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Canada have socialized medicine? I've heard of long waits to see specialists, long waits for treatment of many kinds and generally sub-par care. To the point that those who can, come to the US for anything serious. These are anecdotal, BTW- I have no dog in that particular fight, one way or the other (Canada's health care system, I mean). You'd have a hard, well, impossible time convincing me that the gov't. knows how to best spend my money when it comes to health care- or anything else, for that matter. This forced reallocation of funds would've started a war in a different era. Yes we do have universal helthcare here in Canada. Extremely long waits are the norm, with (as you said) people often going to the US for quick care. Although, I think the care is not sub-par in general. It is regularly abused however and is also a very expensive sytem with terribly mismanaged funding..too many execs and not enough money for doctors and nurses.
Swede Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Yes we do have universal helthcare here in Canada. Extremely long waits are the norm, with (as you said) people often going to the US for quick care. Although, I think the care is not sub-par in general. It is regularly abused however and is also a very expensive sytem with terribly mismanaged funding..too many execs and not enough money for doctors and nurses. I think that is the main problem with socialized medicine... people abusing the system. Because they know it's free, they go to the doc for symptoms or injuries that you'd otherwise treat just fine at home. Somewhere, there is a happy medium between socialized medicine, and one that undertreats the poor.
Bonny Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 I think that is the main problem with socialized medicine... people abusing the system. Because they know it's free, they go to the doc for symptoms or injuries that you'd otherwise treat just fine at home. There are also documented cases of elderly people that have visited doctors over 200 times in a year with no actual ailment...just for something to do.
andyboy Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Oy vey. My BP is a bit to fast so I can't even test my stargun in the backyard before the neighbours start complaining. I tested some D1 glitter stars, used 0,5 grams of pressed and corned BP without any wadding or tamping, it made a rather impressive sound: http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=DIRtFXiLn5I
Richtee Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Oy vey. My BP is a bit to fast so I can't even test my stargun in the backyard before the neighbours start complaining. I tested some D1 glitter stars, used 0,5 grams of pressed and corned BP without any wadding or tamping, it made a rather impressive sound: http://se.youtube.com/watch?v=DIRtFXiLn5IWoo... who needs whistle for breaks ;{) Impressive! Half gram? Dang!
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