Random Thread #1

[Richtee]

Would it seem feasible to make a decent copper metal blue with fairly course copper powder (60 mesh from skyligher)?

 

Was I conned into buying a useless copper powder by the folks at skylighter?

 

60's pretty coarse... hmm wonder if a few well placed hammer blows might not thin it out enough for reliable ignition?

[Mumbles]

Man, I think the Google.com spider is here even more than I am. And that is saying something.

[TheSidewinder]

That damn spider has been here more than *I* have the last few days, too!

 

That isn't necessarily a bad thing, assuming we want the "exposure"....

[asilentbob]

Ended up pumping 45 exactly 1" comets with 1Kg of that blinkey mix. Will see how it burns when they are dry.

 

As much as I don't want to... I think I should probably make a bunch of stars using -325 mesh coated flake Al that I have so much of... Or slow flash inserts...

 

Anyone have a good fast way of sealing wide bore insert tubes? Like maybe 1-3/4" ID? Unfourtunately I don't have ANY discs at all of any size... I'm thinking I might be forced to just cut out a bunch of cardboard discs, hot glue them on, then spike the hell out of them...

[Swede]

I'm not sure who to credit this find to... someone on this board, because I know I read it here.

 

Looking for cheap and available nitrocellulose lacquer? How about $1.80 a quart at Lowe's...

 

http://www.woodcraft.com/images/products/146947tmb.jpg

 

I have to believe it was a pricing error. A buck eighty a quart. Nowhere on the label does it say it contains nitrocellulose, but I'm 98% sure that's what it is. I tested samples side by side with true Pyro NC lacquer. Dried and scraped samples both burned smartly. The Watco burned a little dirtier, but it won't have any effect on a shell or fuse. I left the can open to let some of the solvent evaporate a bit, thicken it right up.

 

I don't know what the NC percentage is. I'm guessing around 10 to 15% based upon the viscosity. Get the gloss, not the satin. Could someone in the U.S. with a large Lowe's nearby check and see if my store mis-priced this stuff? It sells online for $8/quart, still a far cry from what you'd pay from a pyro dealer. I bought two quarts, and I'll probably stop by and pick up the rest.

 

Edit: DON'T BUY DELFT LACQUER. I do not believe it contains nitrocellulose.

Edited July 27, 2008 by Swede

[nickle]

Flying Fish

Regarding the copper powder you may want to try this guy on EBAY $9.89 lb. 325 mesh.

 

http://stores.ebay.com/FINE-POWDER-AMERICA

[flying fish]

Thanks. I had actually seen that before (when I bought my Silicon from them) but was still tempted to try and do with what I had (the skylighter stuff). That seems a decently price though, so I am also tempted to just buy the fine-powders stuff. I suppose another option might be to make some copper oxychloride with HCL and my Cu powder...

[crazyboy25]

Thanks. I had actually seen that before (when I bought my Silicon from them) but was still tempted to try and do with what I had (the skylighter stuff). That seems a decently price though, so I am also tempted to just buy the fine-powders stuff. I suppose another option might be to make some copper oxychloride with HCL and my Cu powder...

 

 

You have forced my hand. I am interested in copper salts now and I am *working* on a large thread of synthesis with pics on copper, it's salts and intermediates that are useful in pyrotechnics.

 

 

For fine coper powder you have two choices:

 

1. Use or make copper sulfate solution (add CuO to 50% sulfuric acid) and add zinc or another reactive metal copper powder will precipitate wash well and filter.

 

 

2. Add copper pipe (or powder in your case) to 34% HCl. To get it to dissolve bubble air through it or add a little 35% H2O2. the liquid will darken and tun brownish. Remove copper, bubble air or add 35% hydrogen peroxide or regular bleach until the solution becomes a clear green. Add aluminum foil until no more reacts filter and wash copper percipitate.

 

 

BTW Add sodium/potassium bicarb to the clear green solution to make copper oxychloride. If you have copper chloride no need for the whole dissolving just make a concentrated solution and add aluminum.

[flying fish]

I'll have to try some of that stuff! I mean, I could just buy the fine-powders stuff on ebay, but where's the fun in that? Plus, I haven't done nearly enough chemistry experiments lately.

[Mumbles]

Adding bicarb certainly wont be making any sort of oxychloride. All it will be doing is precipitating the basic carbonate. I'll have to find my synthesis stuff on oxychloride, but I believe the best way would be bubbling in air through a chloride solution of it. There is a way to do it with hydroxide I think, but the carbonate I have doubts about.

[crazyboy25]

Well I have done all the things with copper posted except making copper oxychloride but I'm pretty sure that way will work. You are right when you say continuing to bubble air will make oxychloride.

 

I think you are mistaken when you say adding sodium bicarbonate wont precipitate copper oxychloride as I have two references.

 

rec.pyrotechnics: http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Re...1/msg00230.html

 

 

I). By neutralization:

Remove the remaining metal from the corroding bucket and bubble air until

the solution is a bright green color. Add a base, such as sodium hydroxide

(dissolve in water first), carbonate or bicarbonate, to the nearly-neutral

copper chloride solution. I recommend sodium bicarbonate, a mild base.

Neutralize in a large bucket because a lot of foam will be produced.

Pastel green copper oxychloride will precipitate. Wash and dry the

product. Caution: sodium hydroxide is a strong base and, if you add too

much, may strip chloride from the product.

 

This product should be stable in boiling water, whereas pastel blue copper

hydroxide will decompose to black copper oxide. Copper hydroxide is

produced when a solution of copper with little chloride (a dilute copper

chloride solution, or any strength of copper sulfate or nitrate) is

neutralized.

 

 

And 12AX7's site: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms/Chem_Cu.html

 

Copper oxychloride suspension, precipitated from CuCl2 solution with NaHCO3, and a *lot* of foaming.

 

Copper hydroxychloride, to be more accurate, is made by precipitating a chloro-complex copper solution. Copper chloride (CuCl2) alone is more like cupric tetracuprichloride, in solution. When hydroxyl is added, both ions precipitate more or less simultaneously, one as chloride, the other as hydroxide. The result is a crystal structure that has chloride and hydroxyl ions alternating, more or less substituting at will. (Around 19 Cu(OH,Cl)2 compounds are known, each with unique stoichiometry of OH:Cl.) This material pyrolyzes to a black powder as plain hydroxide or carbonate does, but it smokes from the freed copper chloride evaporating (it has a high vapor pressure, as many chlorides do). This can probably be leached out after pyrolysis, but that doesn't matter to you if you want oxychloride, which this paragraph happens to be about!

 

Copper tetraammonium complexes can be prepared in much the same way, as well as many other complexes (Paris green is a good example: hydrous copper [acetate complex] arsenate) and for many other transition metals.

Edited July 28, 2008 by crazyboy25

[tentacles]

Charcoal A (I suspect it is willow):

- Charcoal is light and fluffy, easily ground with rolling the PVC pipe over it

 

Charcoal B (I suspect it is Pine)

- Charcoal seems a bit denser and perhaps stickier...

- Harder to grind with the PVC pipe compared to Charcoal A; due to this it probably was also not ground as fine as Charcoal A.

 

I disagree here, I'd say charcoal A is pine, as it's very light and fluffy, and breaks up very very easily. I don't think you can reliably compare the burning characteristics until you ball mill or sieve both to a comparable size. Otherwise it's an apple and alder sort of comparison.

Edited July 29, 2008 by tentacles

[flying fish]

Well, thanks for bringing this back. I made some actual, milled charcoal stars (and split comets if they decide to work) with the stuff that I thought was Pine (Charcoal B )...which I won't get to test until the weekend. But I supposed it wouldn't hurt to make a comparative batch with Charcoal A next weekend. The initial test I did was very crude...the particle size between the two charcoals was a huge variable unaccounted for (apart from merely stating that Charcoal B did not break up as well, so I assume the particle size to be bigger).

 

I think I will also cook some more charcoal eventually. As soon as I find the time for that...I can probably just ditch the mystery charcoals...or make something less critical with them, like burst or primes. It does make be a bit nervous experimenting with star formulas (which is something I like to tightly document) and not knowing for sure what kind of charcoal I am putting into it.

Edited July 29, 2008 by flying fish

[TheSidewinder]

If you have a star gun, and make a small batch of stars identical except for the 2 charcoals, I think you'll be able to settle the matter pretty quickly.

 

The pine charcoal stars SHOULD be noticeably different from the Willow charcoal stars.

 

And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pine C stars will have a fair bit more tail, with a more golden color than the Willow C stars?

 

And really, there's no problem at all just making star batches with both until they're used up. Either charcoal in a star formula should produce visually pleasing results.

[flying fish]

I suppose you are right - if I really need to know which is which somewhere down the road...I can just make some more of each charcoal...and THAT time keeping track of them. I do know the specific trees from which I got the charcoal, as well as the method that I used to prepare the charcoal...so it isn't like the data would be lost...just that it would require some repetition. And that's still only in the very unlikely scenario that I find some miraculously amazing formula that "needs" to be repeated! Edited July 29, 2008 by flying fish

[Frozentech]

Nothing at all to do with pyro, but an interesting little piece of video nonetheless.

 

Iraqi driver thinks radar gun is a weapon ?

[flying fish]

That's why you wear seatbelts... (pretty disturbing when you figure out what those "objects" flying from the car are).

[FrKoNaLeaSh1010]

i just gotta say that this new software is pretty freakin cool. I remember when this place first started and now its got all fancy software. The new options when u are replying are cool too. hows that for a random post...

[flamingape]

Nothing at all to do with pyro, but an interesting little piece of video nonetheless.

 

Iraqi driver thinks radar gun is a weapon ?

 

 

holy mother of god thats brutal!

 

an another note...what happened to the member tutorials?

[jacob]

Nothing at all to do with pyro, but an interesting little piece of video nonetheless.

 

Iraqi driver thinks radar gun is a weapon ?

 

Middle easterners are pretty notorious for driveing like lunatics, not that he was, but apparently they believe whatever will be, will be, regardless of what they do, which may explain why they (probably) weren't wearing set belts.

 

Here's a video.

I'd like to be selling them tires.

 

And there are alot more on youtube.

[TheSidewinder]

Now that was some crazy two-wheel balancing. They'd make good taxi drivers in New York or Boston. You'd get to your destination a lot faster.

[Draco_Aster]

Ok, as some of you may know I'm leaving pyrotechnics. The ONLY reason for this is beacause I am getting a shooting (rifle) license, and if anybody knows shooting laws in Australia they will know how strict they are. Police do random searches of your house to make sure that your guns are stored properly and I really dont want them doing that with the amount of chemicals and gear I have around the house.

 

Luckily, I will still be making "experimental" (BP) rockets, the only part of my hobby I really intend on keeping. I will still be making alcohol too (I can dismantle my still). So if anybody hasn't heard from me in...AGES...thats because I haven't really been doing anything.

 

Hopefully when I turn 18 in 4 month i'll be more active in the alcohol thread and might even get into beers.

 

If anybody in AUSTRALIA needs any chemicals, glassware or tools then feel free to PM me. I might even start up a thread listing what I'm selling soon.

 

Thanks for all the help and advice regarding pyrotechnics and explosives over the past years!

Edited August 1, 2008 by Draco_Aster

[mormanman]

Sad to see you leave Draco, are you going to be doing pro shows or are you just getting it to say you have it. I bet its the first one. Are you going to have your own company or what? If so don't be like Pyrotex out of Texas, they suck kind of. Be like Melrose out of Chicago. They are good, if you get the chance google them.

[Draco_Aster]

Bit of confusion here, by shooting I mean rifles. Guns.

 

ill edit the post to clear things up a bit

[Mumbles]

For future reference, we don't really ID at the door for the alcohol thread. Feel free to join in whenever.

 

As far as Melrose goes. They may be good in show quality, but I think several members may disagree about them being good politically.

 

I'm sorry to see you go, but feel free to still stop by for the theoretical discussion, or just to hang out. There are still non-technical sections of the forum. Good luck with the rifle license.