Random Thread #1

[crazyboy25]

There's no really good sub for the more potent barium oxidizers.

Barium chlorate. I have been reading about it it apparently makes the deepest richest green possible. There is precious little literature on it and the only composition I have found is 10:2 barium chlorate to shellac and that was in chemistry context not practical application in pyrotechnics.

 

 

EDIT: Here is a comp I made. Roughly based on a match head patent.

 

Barium chlorate...................76

Shellac.............................. 11

Sulfur...............................4

Dextrin...............................5

PVC....................................3-5

 

 

I don't have these chemicals but if someone does I'd love to hear results it may require more tweaking.

 

 

Firefox sells and ships barium chlorate.

[flying fish]

I'm not sure if I like the idea of sulfur and chlorate...

[FrankRizzo]

flying fish is correct, that mix is terribly unsafe.

 

Degn Green:

Barium Chlorate - 9

Shellac - 2

[crazyboy25]

Hmmm didn't think of that. Rereading I noticed they included diatomaceous earth as an "inhibitor" perhaps decreasing sensitivity.

 

 

So edited version:

 

 

Barium chlorate..........................76

Shellac..................................... 11

Sulfur........................................4

Dextrin......................................5

PVC.........................................3-5

Diatomaceous earth 150 mesh.....6

 

Note: it may be feasible to remove the dextrin and dissolve the shellac in boiling ethanol and add it to the other components the only problem is the solubility of shellac may mean a very large amount of alcohol is required making this process unrealistic.

 

 

No doubt it will still be slightly sensitive and dangerous but isn't there a PGI grandmaster who uses chlorate/sulfur comps all the time? I know he's far more experienced but experience doesn't prevent spontaneous ignition.

 

I don't doubt the comp you posted works Frank but I think the addition of PVC will add color and the sulfur lower flame temp.

[FrankRizzo]

Diatomaceous earth will only serve to make that mix more friction sensitive, which may be ideal for the original use in matches.

 

A basic mix with only shellac gives a large flame envelope and maintains color purity. Mixes containing only barium chlorate as the oxidizer do not need an additional chlorine donor.

[Frozentech]

There's no really good sub for the more potent barium oxidizers.

Barium chlorate. I have been reading about it it apparently makes the deepest richest green possible. There is precious little literature on it and the only composition I have found is 10:2 barium chlorate to shellac and that was in chemistry context not practical application in pyrotechnics.

 

 

EDIT: Here is a comp I made. Roughly based on a match head patent.

 

Barium chlorate...................76

Shellac.............................. 11

Sulfur...............................4

Dextrin...............................5

PVC....................................3-5

 

 

I don't have these chemicals but if someone does I'd love to hear results it may require more tweaking.

 

 

Firefox sells and ships barium chlorate.

Barium Chlorate makes nice greens, but it's also known as a more risky green than Ba(NO3)2 is. At least one experienced pyro, a former treasurer of the PGI, died, along with his wife, when he brought green chlorate stars he was drying inside his house to get them out of the rain ( all supposition, but his last phone call said he was doing that ) his house more or less exploded in the night, killing both of them. In any case, with Ba(ClO3)2 you get all the sensitivities of KClO3 and the poisonousness of Barium in one neat package. I would sooner use dichromate and Paris Green myself.

 

Lancaster Chlorate Green #1

Barium Chlorate.......53

Potassium Chlorate..28

Red Gum...................10

Charcoal Airfloat.........5

Dextrin.......................4

 

If you can afford the Firefox Hazmat and shipping fees for Barium Chlorate, you may as well get Barium Nitrate.

[mormanman]

I got the book, Regnar's Guide to Home and Recreational use of High Explosive. Guess where I got it.

 

A friend that is in the FBI.

 

Don't worry I won't talk about the contents with anyone outside of HE or thats not HE.

[flying fish]

I find it funny that the injunction did not limit the sale of Barium Chlorate. Out of all the oxidizers, that was probably the MOST dangerous! So roughly how much $dough would I be looking at to get 1 lb of Hazardous material to my door? Hmmm...my company orders HF from Sigma which is shipped hazmat, so maybe they know...

[Mumbles]

FBI or not, it is still a significantly kewl book. Also, it's available on the internet.

 

I believe you'd be looking at shelling out around $30 to $35 in shipping for the Ba Chlorate. You might as well load up the box, 10lbs I think and cut the costs. There might be someone near you willing to split perhaps.

[mormanman]

FBI or not, it is still a significantly kewl book. Also, it's available on the internet.

Oh, I know that its a kewl book but its kind of funny. I has some other stuff thats pretty cool. Like the history, and the stuff like that.

 

BTW, I know some one has mentioned it but it was along time ago.

Where would I be able to find a KNO3 Fertilizer dealer in Arlington, TX?

[Swede]

Chemistry problem/quiz - a certain process deposits a very sticky and difficult to remove coating of encrusting metallic lead on some stainless steel components. The components are inaccessible to all except liquid reagents or cleaners... no mechanical scraping, etc.

 

A mixture of dilute acetic acid and H2O2 will dissolve the lead (it takes days) creating a solution with Lead Acetate, a highly toxic and dangerous lead compound. It is desirable to treat the lead acetate solution so as to precipitate the lead into a sulfate, oxalate, chloride, any of the insoluble or nearly insoluble lead salts, for filtering, collection, and ecologically sound disposal.

 

It should be simple. I have an idea on how to do it, but I'd like to poll the chemical wizardry of this group and see what you guys might suggest. The "winning" process gets my sincere thanks and the satisfaction of knowing they are keeping Pb out of the groundwater, as despite many exhortations, I know the people involved with this are mostly sneaking out back and just dumping it.

[oskarchem]

I'm thinking mix the lead acetate with sulfuric acid which should make lead sulfate. But don't do this without confermation of one of the chemistry guys.

 

Anyway, on a sidenote, I should be attndig my private pilot's theoretical exam in september, towmorrow I'm going to pick up last years questions to be able to study.

[Swede]

Thanks oskarchem, and good luck with the private pilot stuff. I've been flying for 30 years now. The last time I flew for fun was about 15 years ago. Unfortunately now it's mostly just work, but I do know the magic feeling of lifting off the runway; it never gets old.

 

Aviation and fireworks are much alike. You have to respect the dangers involved, and there's no room for immaturity, at all. But when done correctly, it's both fun AND safe.

[asilentbob]

Well... ok now I pretty much have a star roller... except for the drive shaft to bucket mounting flange... I have some ideas on that... might look into PVC today... BUT yeah assuming I can find something that will work... I'll have a working star roller by tonight... Its just temporary though... I'll take it apart and weld together a more permanent ball mill / star roller when I get enough weldable steel. Man I have so many awesome ideas for this thing. If I complete it ill really try to get it up to PGI, you guys are going to love it.

[jacob]

About making a good non-hazardous green, I've found a Barium sulfate formula that I think is quite good, check out the thread I made on it, I just added a video although it doesn't show the color very well.

[oskarchem]

Thanks oskarchem, and good luck with the private pilot stuff.  I've been flying for 30 years now.  The last time I flew for fun was about 15 years ago.  Unfortunately now it's mostly just work, but I do know the magic feeling of lifting off the runway; it never gets old.

 

Aviation and fireworks are much alike.  You have to respect the dangers involved, and there's no room for immaturity, at all.  But when done correctly, it's both fun AND safe. 

That's true, but if I get caught doing pyrotechnics, getting charged for:

"Illigal making of explosives" (Yes this is the accusation here in France, BP is considered as an explosive). Then I could have some trouble getting my commercial pilot's lisence.

 

My 14/07 getting close I should go and pump some comets.

 

BTW: Any chance of getting that 20% warn off of me? Thanks

[Swede]

Ah, I didn't know you were in France. Bonne chance, mon ami. Simple answer - don't get caught doing pyro! Sometimes that is easier said than done.

 

Unrelated note - I was checking eBay for electrodes and such relating to perchlorate cell use, and discovered that they have yanked KClO4. I'm not sure when they did this, but I remember distinctly just a couple of weeks ago, being able to buy KClO4 with ease. The pressure just gets heavier, and heavier...

[jacob]

They prohibited KCLO4 sales long ago, but some people still make listings for it, usually they're quickly removed.

[mormanman]

I know this is really random but I was just wonder if what would happen of you made AN bp? I know that AN is very hydroscopic so it may not ever get passed the milling process.

Its not a boomer question! AN is so expensive that KNO3 is much cheaper and what not.

 

BTW, who has heard of Kim Cushman of Melrose Pyrotechnics?

[Mumbles]

BTW, I know some one has mentioned it but it was along time ago.

Where would I be able to find a KNO3 Fertilizer dealer in Arlington, TX?

The phone book.

 

 

I think precipitating the lead with sulfuric acid would be a waste. I'd go with sodium chloride personally. Sodium acetate is more or less benign.

[mormanman]

The phone book.

Do you really think I haven't looked?

Not trying to be rude but really. I've looked until my fingers bled.

[_DB_]

I'm ready for the new Norma Jean to drop...

[Mumbles]

Mormanman, given your history here, nothing would surprise me anymore.

 

Anyway, Arlington seems to be a fairly urban place. It's unlikely you will find suppliers in town. Feed stores seem like popular places to possibly get it.

[Gottagotomoz]

Quick question:

 

While I was at ACE Hardware today, I bought a bottle of HCl, being that it was only $3, so I figured what the hell. Anyway, it says it's 31.45% HCl, 68.55% inert ingredients. Any idea what these inerts may be? If it's just water, why wouldn't they list it as so. Would they affect any reactions, etc? I realize this is probably coming off as stupid but, I'd rather know exactly what I'm working with here. I hope that is understood.

 

Thanks

[WarezWally]

It would have to be water, try googling for a MSDS, you may get a more descriptive composition.

 

A week ago I purchased 5L of HCl and it was pure rubbish, was the color of urine. I'm guessing they added some sort of metal salt to it as it turns yellow when poured on concrete.