Random Thread #1

[tentacles]

Just thought this was funny:

"Celsius scale, -10° to +400°C, 3405mm long, 76mm immersion depth, 2°C subdivisions, White back, Permanently fused markings; Contains mercury"

 

A 3 meter long thermometer, that's serious equipment! "Yeah we had to get in a vaulted ceiling just to use it". BTW: Obviously a typo, but a funny one.

[oskarchem]

-10°C to 400°C=3405mm long?! -20°C to 380°C is 60cm long...

[frogy]

This seems like a logical question to me... So I ask it, trying to avoid all noobiness

 

Can you simply sand PVC pipe\stock to make PVC powder?

 

I know PVC pipe is impure, (especially the foam cored DWV pipe?), but for pyrotechnics, I highly doubt anything +90% would fail... and I must say that I believe it is more towards 98%

[jlmemt]

I have not tried it, but the logical problem that I have heard discussed is that you will likely end up with some material in your PVC. I suppose a metal file would not have that problem, but what a pain. The fine PVC will have a static charge and stick to everything. And I still don't think that it would be as fine as the normal stuff.

 

Jason

[Frozentech]

I know PVC pipe is impure, (especially the foam cored DWV pipe?), but for pyrotechnics, I highly doubt anything +90% would fail...

It only takes a percentage point or two of impurity in pyrotechnic chemicals to wreck a color effect. Since pure colors are the goal of using a chlorine donor in the first place, I think the answer here is obvious.

 

No, PVC pipe isn't suitable. It contains everything from clay, to dyes, to flame retardants ( great for pyro? ) It's far easier, more reliable, and you'll have more repeatable results by just purchasing some commercial pvc powder.

 

This topic is endlessly brought up, a little searching would show.

[mormanman]

Why can't I melt Al?

I made a crucipal out of a pot and # 10 can. I put it on my propane camping stove for a good 45 minutes. Nothing happened at all.

Any suggestions?

 

And I know this is very random but does anyone know where I could get a Thompson M1?

[frogy]

This topic is endlessly brought up, a little searching would show.

How about you give me what you searched for that brought up an article on using PVC pipe for a chlorine donor? Don't just assume I didn't search... And this is the random thread, you don't have to go crazy about it...

 

Mormanman, If I were you, I would invest in a digital laser thermometer.

 

The crucible needs to be about 660°C on the inside to melt Aluminum... I think Magnesium is about 650°C if you plan on making MgAl in the future... Sorry for the random knowledge

 

I can't say where you can get a Thompson M1A1 in your area, but I've say a few at gun auctions around my area in Ohio.

[mormanman]

Mormanman, If I were you, I would invest in a digital laser thermometer.

 

The crucible needs to be about 660°C on the inside to melt Aluminum... I think Magnesium is about 650°C if you plan on making MgAl in the future... Sorry for the random knowledge

 

I can't say where you can get a Thompson M1A1 in your area, but I've say a few at gun auctions around my area in Ohio.

Thanks Frogy. I asked my mom for one and she said they were/are stupid.

 

And Frogy, how much do they run a the auctions. I have found some places on GOOGLE (yeah thats right I was using google ) and they were atleast 2 grand.

 

I need a job.

[Mumbles]

Might be because those propane camping stoves wont generate enough heat. They may put out enough to boil water and cook meat, but probably nowhere near enough to melt metals. Might want to consider a charcoal chimney starter that FrankRizzo and Tentacles advocate in their MgAl production. It would also make a difference what kind of Al you are using. Using Al foil or chips will cause it to take significantly longer to melt due to the high surface area. Using an ingot would make it melt significantly faster as less heat is lost to the environment.

 

As far as the PVC pipe thing, there is at least one thread here

http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?s...=20entry30045

I used the terms "chlorine donor PVC pipe" in google to get that as a first page hit. Anyway, this thread is for random questions, and it fits. I think frozentech was just stating that the information is around. I know where to get it simply because I know where it is. Google searches on this matter are often clouded with irrelevant hits as they often use the term "chlorine donor" in reference to it leaching chlorinated compounds into drinking water, and into the air during incineration.

[mormanman]

I'm not sure what ingot is but its ok. But I was use Al coupons I was angry b/c I thought they might work and they didn't. I have look and Frank and Tentacle's method but I haven't enough money. I'm broke.

Thanks mumbles.

 

EDIT

Looked up ingot and I think that that is similar to my coupons.

[asilentbob]

On the MgAl note, I just got 15.5lbs of Magnesium in ingot form for essentially only $20 out of my pocket (love gift cards). So about $1.30/lb.

:D :D :D

Just need to find enough scrap aluminum now :C... Trip to the junk yard is in order.

 

I'm considering putting more time into thinking about tattoos... Considering getting a UV reactive pyro/chem related one of some kind. I would obviously test it somewhere else on my body first to make sure im not allergic and all that jazz. This probably wont happen till I'm 21 and have my type 20

 

Also ordered some Bhut Jolokia pepper seeds... We'll see... We'll see...

[tentacles]

mormonman: Those chimney charcoal starters are only like $10 - even up here in Canada. Charcoal is cheap, too. The generic stuff worked fine for FrankRizzo and I when we last made MgAl.

[justanotherpyro]

I got mine from home depot for $7. Surprisingly the bag of their cheapest briquettes was of almost equal price but its a big bag and will make many batches of MgAl or steak

 

On a side note seeing as how this is the random thread, I hate going into Home Depot or at least my wallet does. I always go in for something or other and end up walking out with bags of stuff and a $30 receipt.

[mormanman]

mormonman: Those chimney charcoal starters are only like $10 - even up here in Canada. Charcoal is cheap, too. The generic stuff worked fine for FrankRizzo and I when we last made MgAl.

I still don't have that kind of money. I need a job like I said.

[crazyboy25]

I just got a skylighter newsletter, they now have spherical titanium. Start stocking up!

[qwezxc12]

Cool shirt idea?

http://dyo.customink.com/temp/saveproofs/qwezxc12@verizon.net/1dot3front.jpghttp://dyo.customink.com/temp/saveproofs/qwezxc12@verizon.net/1dot3back.jpg

I think I'll make a few...should turn a few heads

[Mumbles]

The "caution, shoots flaming balls" one is always nice too.

 

Send one my way if you make one.

 

 

 

Completely unrelated to flaming balls, I got an idea as I was replying to one of the threads on pressing BP. It got me thinking about density, and an accurate way to measure it. It's a pretty common general science experiment in high school to place objects into special containers containing liquid. The amount of liquid displaced corresponds to the volume of the object, and a scale is used to find the mass obviously. I was thinking that a similar thing could be done with BP grains. Obviously water is not the ideal liquid choice. I was thinking denatured alcohol, acetone, cold toluene, etc. I actually think that mineral oil might be a better choice. There is no chance of it dissolving anything, and it's not very volatile so it wont evaporate. Might be too viscous though. With a graduated cylinder with 1mL increments you should be able to accurately measure 10g of granulated BP to within abut 3%.

[FrankRizzo]

On a side note seeing as how this is the random thread, I hate going into Home Depot or at least my wallet does. I always go in for something or other and end up walking out with bags of stuff and a $30 receipt. 

We share the same affliction. I literally go in there to buy one little $2 compression fitting, and come to the counter with a $45 armload of misc useful crap that I pick-up on my way. I should realistically just pick-up one of those hand basket things at the door every time I go in, but that would be admitting defeat to the hardware store gods. I mean..not having a basket/cart is supposed to keep me from buying misc shit, but I somehow manage to stack and carry just about the same capacity in my arms.

[KinneticEnergy]

I think all resourceful pyros have trouble with this issue, I know I do . The dollar store is a big thing for me. I go in to buy lighters and Tupperware products(Such a good deal, lighters are 5 for a dollar, and the 16oz Tupperware containers are 4/$1) And I come out with everything from aluminum foil to zebra striped paper cups!

In hope depot, I go in for a couple various things, and I mysteriously come out of the store with $45 or more missing from my wallet... Due to my low budget, I subsequently attempt to avoid home depot as much as possible, for obvious reasons.

[oskarchem]

Could anyone check if this KeteN page works with their Firefox?

 

http://www.keten.org.pl/odczynniki.html

 

For me it only works with IE, but w/ Firefox it just shows a ton of weired characters...

 

Thanks

[InRainbows]

Oskar, it doesn't work for me on Firefox either, I checked just for you.

 

Also, rant.

 

I've been thinking about the industrial process for making sulfuric acid, since battery acid sucks. All that a pyro would need to get is the catalyst, vanadium pentoxide. Under the definition of catalyst, You'd only need like 4 oz. and you'd be set, if you didn't physically lose any. Really, it'd be more than useful to have your own sulfuric acid still. Sulfur is readily available, only problems I can think of are that of are that paper filters being ignited by SO3, and that vanadium pentoxide is toxic. Anyone have any thoughts/ comments? United nuclear has vanadium, although expensive, a more than worthy investment if I'm well informed.

[Mumbles]

V2O5 can be obtained from ceramic suppliers at a much lower price.

 

Making one's own sulfuric acid is far from a safe operation. First of all, sulfuric acid has really no place at all in pyrotechnics. It takes a good amount of scientific and engineering skill to pull off the proper design. I would trust only a handful of the people I know to do it, you not being one of them.

 

I think the biggest misconception about this is that you can just bubble the SO3 into water. This is an EXTREMELY exothermic reaction. It will boil and spray acid everywhere. The only feasible way to do it is to bubble it into sulfuric acid to make oleum and then dilute down, so you need a starting amount of strong sulfuric acid anyway. I am also curious where paper filters come in to play here.

[InRainbows]

My bad about the SO3 into water. I've read that SO3 ignites wood somewhere, I think roguescience, and since wood and paper are pretty similar, it led me to believe paper filters would catch fire too. The paper comes into play since I wanted to burn the sulfur, and lead fumes into a resistant pipe with a paper filter topped with V2O5. Well, anyway, doesn't matter, I wasn't aware that SO3 + water is that violent, thought it just misted up sulfuric acid. But if I had just a little bit of concentrated sulfuric acid, could pretty much multiply the amount I have by having the same plot, except leading SO3 into sulfuric acid instead and then diluting?

[Mumbles]

Not quite that simple. The way you describe will yield no more SO3 than what is produced from the burning sulfur itself.

 

I believe the more or less standard way is to pump the SO2 combined with dry air through a heated pipe packed with V2O5 on glass wool, asbestos, or deposited on charcoal. For optimal conversion you need plenty of surface are and plenty of heat. I believe the easiest way would be to pump in air over a sulfur fire, and absolutely maintain positive pressure. Pump the output through several "washings" of concentrated sulfuric acid, and then through several basic scrubbers.

[asilentbob]

Yeah pretty much.

 

Hellfire (from totse) and I tossed around many ideas for making SO3 through email and forum posts for a few months last year ish. A VERY good repository of knowledge and ideas is on SMDB. We were going to either use a vacuum driven system or forced air system. We would have a sulfur burner made out of fiberglass cloth or similar high-heat resistant somewhat inert material with a high surface area in a tin can or something metal and heat resistant. You would add the sulfur and cap the unit. To ingite the sulfur you would get it molten via hotplate and it would wick up into the glass fiber and reach its auto ignition point assuming enough oxygen was present and constantly being fed to it. There would be 2 holes. One for either forced air in or with a needle valve that air could be sucked through via vacuum, then another hole leading the vapor through a copper or steel pipe going into a bed of coals and snaking around somewhat for a high residence time since the system would be close to atmospheric pressure and normal temp instead of high pressure AND temp as done in industrial settings... We were thinking around manganese oxide and rust like catalysts on clay granules and such. Just because they use V2O5 in industry doesn't mean it is optimum for a small scale DIYer. Anywho... after the catalyst bed the fumes would be lead through some sort of very big air radiator + fan... actually probably several radiators... THEN a high surface area copper condenser cooled with hose temp water to quickly drop the temperature down so that 350+ Celcius SO3/SO2 fumes arn't quickly heating up every scrubber vessel and their seals to the melting point, if not outright cracking them from the thermal shock. Sure pyrex is good, but its not necessarily THAT good. Also gases dissolve better at low temps into fluids with low temps. The first 4 or so vessels would be pyrex erylenmeyer flasks with 98% boiled H2SO4. Then several dilute sodium carbonate scrubber bottles, probably just 3L PET jugs. All of these containers would be weighted down with weights in a plastic trough with cold water that is slowly cycled to keep all the containers cool.

 

But that was just preliminary plans...

 

Thermal decomposition of pyrosulfates is a good lab scale prep for small quantities of SO3. I have not tried it yet however.