Resurrection of the Info Pool?

[nesler]

To a lot of you guys, I'm a stranger, but the folks that have been around for a while know me from the old forum, where I was an admin, once upon a time.

 

Anyways, long ago I kick started a little thing called the Info Pool, which was sort of a book club for fireworks enthusiasts. Essentially, somebody who wanted to be a member scanned and OCRed (OCR = Optical Character Recognition--look it up) a book or collection of articles, or created their own article about some particular facet of fireworks construction / technique.

 

The applying member turned in their contribution, and when judged up to snuff, they were granted access to the collection of stuff contributed by other members. Surprisingly, it worked out quite nicely, until folks started causing trouble. But aside from this, it worked out pretty well, and the collection that was created was quite impressive (OCRed versions of Ellern, Shimizu, Lancaster, Peregrin, the AFN series, several AFN newsletters, and a lot of other stuff I can't remember). Past members could provide more details.

 

Anyways, what I want to ask is, are people interested in starting this up again?

[BigBang]

Nice to see you again nesler

 

The answer would have to be.....YES! I voiced my opinion at the old forum and it hasn't changed. The info pool really should be restarted. I have a few goodies just waiting to be provided.

 

Before we go gung ho like I am, coul;d we discuss what went wrong in the first place? Maybe we could work out the bugs, so the same thing doesn't happen. Also, if eserected, would it be something of another section of the forum, like the mods section?

 

Also, check your mailbox

[justanotherpyro]

I think info pool would be a good idea. All though I don't know exactly what I could contribute. As I recall Blindreaper shared information from it when he wasn't supposed to.

[asilentbob]

If i had more pyrotechnic literature i would be more inclined to contribute, as it is right now i just have "Indroductory Practicle Pyrotechnics by Tom Perigrin" in print. I have a few ebooks, but im sure they would already be in the pool.

[Rooster]

The problem was partly Blindreeper, who shared books he shouldn't have shared without asking. Some other members threatened to release the whole shabang if they would not get to stay inside.

 

Actually we have been thinking about this, and there is already made a setion for it.

 

These are the BOOKS that were/will be in the pool:

 

Best of AFN 2

Best of AFN 3

Black Powder Manufacturing, Testing & Optimizing

Blackbook Companion

Blasters Training Manual

Complete Art of Fireworks Making

Donner's Impact Firecrackers

Ellern's Military & Civilial Pyrotechnics (OCRed)

HE's and propellants

John Bate's Second Booke

Lancaster's Fireworks Principles and Practice

Orange Book 2000

Professional's Guide to Pyrotechnics

Round Stars and Shells

The complete book of explosives

The Complete Kitchen Series

Uncle Fester's home workshop explosives

 

Also there is a computer program made for pyrotechnics lots of articles, and an exclusive DVD I made while visiting Malta, which I will burn and send to anyone in the pool.

 

For anyone to get in, members before or not, we should have to do something new to get in.

 

Good to see you again Nesler!

[Draco_Aster]

In that case I have much to offer (unlike on the old forum) and hope it starts up again. What 'other things' where you thinking about to get in? Swear on the bible? Binding contract? I was starting to wonder where all the 'greats' of the old forum have gone but now they are slowly coming back....

[Rooster]

Its just that everyone should scan or make something new to get in, as there will be new books. We may have to take a vote on that though. If you want to swear on the bible too, then thats fine by me.

[nesler]

Its just that everyone should scan or make something new to get in, as there will be new books. We may have to take a vote on that though. If you want to swear on the bible too, then thats fine by me.

People would have to submit something new to get in. That's how it's worked in the past. Everyone has to re-up.

[Kiddo]

Wouldn't that casue problems after while? For example after the first 20 people submitted their information, the info pool would become more and more tricky to get into.

I don't mean to insult the idea, as it must have worked before (although I never saw it) but its just a thought...

Regards

[Mumbles]

Wouldn't that casue problems after while? For example after the first 20 people submitted their information, the info pool would become more and more tricky to get into.

I don't mean to insult the idea, as it must have worked before (although I never saw it) but its just a thought...

Regards

Yes, after a while books we don't have become hard to come by. The cheap books are also taken first usually too. Anyway, this is why we allow the option of writing your own tutorials and such. It does have to be quality work. We're not afraid to just outright say "No, that is just a pile of crap." I believe we said before to shoot for 10-15 pages on the tutorial. We're pretty open on the subjects as long as it is good.

[nesler]

Also, what about establishing an ftp like MSDB and E&W? It would be easy to make a general file pool for everyone (eliminates questions etc...) and also one can create a folder that is accesible to pool members (password etc) which contains stuff that is awarded based on merit.

 

Personally I am for the spread of information rather than keeping it locked up, but if this if the files are asked to stay locked up by their creators so be it. In any case... would an FTP or something of that type be possible?

As far as a general ftp goes, I'm a little uncomfortable with that, as a general access area quickly turns into a shithole. Just look at E&W's ftp for proof of that. And this forum would be liable for whatever retarded crap might wind up there. As far as using a private ftp for the info pool, it has been mulled over in the past.

 

As far as the "spread of information" versus "keeping it locked up," I definitely understand that, but I believe that we have to walk a middle ground. What I am slowly starting to do is to try and make some of the older stuff available to the public. Just a day or two ago, I started e-mailing copies of my OCRed copy of Ellern's book out to people on the rec.pyro newgroup that wanted it. Anybody who has taken a look at that thing knows that it took a long time to do. I probably spent a hundred hours on the damn thing.

 

Once you start freely giving away projects that you spent so much time on (to say nothing of the months that these authors spent on their works), then you can start talking about the free and clear spread of information.

 

I do want to respect copyright, and I do want to respect these tiny little publishing companies that print these books for little or no profit. This isn't music, this isn't video games. It's not a huge market, and these guys do need every penny they can get. So when it comes to the newer stuff, I believe there has to be some restrictions.

 

However, I do think sharing is justified when it can be contained to a small group of people that encourages/forces people to contribute.

 

1) It encourages people to buy books to contribute, so these companies make sales they might not make otherwise.

 

2) Other people, in order to get access to the pool, will put together really nice, comprehensive articles on specialized topics in fireworks. These articles would not be written if it weren't for the restricted nature of the pool. The collective knowledge of the pyrotechnics community (at least those that are a member of the pool) grows. If it's just free and open, what makes people share? While some will, many won't, but many will share if there's a carrot held out in front of them (all the books and stuff that they don't have).

 

3) For the sake of safety, and for the sake of the continuation of fireworks as a hobby, I think it's important to get this information out to the young, and the not-so-young. There isn't a lot of good information out there that's easily availabe (just look at totse). BUT, if a person is too lazy to take the time to contribute to a project like this, when instead, they just want the world handed to them, then I must postulate that that person doesn't have the mentality to be involved in fireworks. If you don't have that patience, that desire to contribute to something larger, to share, then you really, really shouldn't be fucking with fireworks.

 

Trust me, the question of ethics that the pool presents is one that I've mulled over quite a bit in the past. So...that's where it stands.

 

Also, I do think the materials in the pool need to be examined, and some of them tossed out. There's a fair amount of explosives and chemistry shit in there, and I think the folks in charge of the pool need to decide where the line is as far as material like that goes, and determine what material crosses that line. I reallly don't want to see the pool turn into E&W's crap pile. Personally, I'd like to see it focused solely on fireworks, but that's my personal bias speaking. But I know some of the material is outdated, and some of it is just too...general, too unprofessional to be in the pool.

 

Anyways, fire away guys.

[Kiddo]

How much information went into the old info pool?

People could end up spending hours working on a long, detailed peice of information, only to find that there is no real benefit because nobody else can 'be bothered'.

For you to even consider re-introducing this idea, I am sure it is worthwhile but I just want some conformation.

Regards

[nesler]

How much information went into the old info pool?

People could end up spending hours working on a long, detailed peice of information, only to find that there is no real benefit because nobody else can 'be bothered'.

For you to even consider re-introducing this idea, I am sure it is worthwhile but I just want some conformation.

Regards

You have to understand, you would be coming into a library that is already quite large. And anyone joining or rejoining will be adding to it.

 

I have 400 MB or so of books and documents from the pool:

 

A Professional's Guide to Pyrotechnics by John Donner

AFN newsletters

American Pyrotechnist newsletter excerpts

Best of AFN II

Best of AFN III

Blackbook Companion

Black Powder Manufacturing, Testing and Optimizing by Ian von Maltitz

Candy and Composite Motor Kit Manual by Woody Stanford

Chemistry of Pyrotechnics by John Conkling

Chemistry of Pyrotechnics and Explosives by Tenney Davis

Collection of Pyrotechnic Compositions (put together by Lil_Guppy)

Complete Art of Firework-Making by Thomas Kentish

Complete Book of Flash Powder by Paul Moran

Complete Skylighter Bulletins

Explosives, 5th Ed by Kohler and Meyer

Explosives, Propellants and Pyrotechnics (Brassey's World Military Technology)

Fireworks: Principles and Practices by Lancaster

Glitter, the Chemistry and Techniques by Oglesby

High Explosives and Propellants by Fordham

How to Design, Build and Test Small Liquid-Fuel Rocket Engines, by Leroy Krzycki

Military and Civilian Pyrotechnics by Herbert Ellern

Round Stars and Shells by Davis Bleser

---------

 

There's also a crapload of shorter texts that I need to sort through, and I may have lost some stuff along the way. Anyways, there's plenty there, trust me.

 

Also, I plan on contributing Shimizu's FAST (which I don't believe I ever submitted), and I may start scanning my collection of PGI and AFN bulletins.

[nesler]

I don't think that would be a problem, it is not hard to make the ftp read-only. The files that are uploaded to it can be judged for quality. Organize nicely, and it becomes like an online library .

 

I agree with you on this but, we should have both fireworks and chemistry because ultimately fireworks are still founded on chemistry. Aside from this, it encourages people to get involved in chemistry which is not a bad thing IMHO .

I was only concerned about the creation of a public ftp. I really don't feel like spending large quanitities of time filtering through all the crap people are submitting to it, and having to go through all that stuff sort of kills the convenience of a public ftp.

 

And yeah, I know what you mean about chemistry.

[nesler]

How are books typically uploaded... scanner?

Usually we require that a book be scanned and then OCRed, using a program such as Finereader (which both scans and OCRs--really streamlines the process). And we require people to do a good job on the OCRing...spellchecking and the whole bit.

[Mumbles]

I am fine with the general chemistry things. I feel it is important for people in pyrotechnics to have a decent handle on chemistry. I feel it works to prevent potential accidents, and helps to get a deeper understanding of what you are doing. It is also helpful at times to solve problems faster.

 

As far as explosives, I think it will have to be on a case by case basis. We must remember that pyrotechnics are still explosives. For instance, I would not turn away COPAE. While it does have some high explosive parts, it also has pyrotechnic parts. It also discusses the chemistry side of things which I also feel is important. If you feel you have a HE text that people need to see, post it in the HE section, or distribute it privately if we don't accept it in.

 

I also feel it is important in the development of younger pyros that they get some good information early to help lead them down the right path. After I got past the ACB and such, and even then I was leary about it's credibility, I got a few books. COPAE, Vogel, Mann, and a few others. They definatly helped me out. They are all excellent books, and I suggest that everyone take a look at them. Vogel and Mann definatly greatly contributed to my chemistry knowledge. After a while you stop just seeing how a certain thing is made, and you start learning the reactions and being able to figure stuff out without a step by step synthesis to guide you. You learn the nature of materials, which is extremely helpful in the pyro world.

 

As much as I dislike breaking copywrite laws, I feel this is doing more help than harm. I still like having a print copy around for my uses. It's much easier to use. Like I said before, it is important to get valid worthwhile in the hands of people. The restriction just helps to weed out the people who arn't serious about the hobby. Throughout my experience in the "real" pyro community, they are not young. I use the world real more in a sense of face to face type of things. If we want to keep the hobby alive(assuming the CPSC lets u), we definatly need a younger generation coming up. If there is no one there to learn from experience, all the great info contained within the veterans, dies with them.

[nesler]

Mumbles--

 

As far as HE stuff, I'm way more lenient than I think you're taking me. COPAE and all of that is great. My concerns are with the KIPE/KIFE stuff and the Uncle Fester's Home Workshop stuff. It may be accurate, but I'm a little wary of HE-related stuff with "kitchen" in the title.

 

And yes, it's definitely a good idea to have a good background in Chemistry.

[Kilo_G]

I've been hearing feet dragging for months. Seems to be getting louder.

[Schwartzy]

I am really determined to become a pyro/chemnist. Yet I have just started reading (which I pick up that info fast) but I have nothing to contribute that almost anyone who has a computer can. And yes, I may be a newbie to most people but I shall learn fast.

 

For people like me who are determined to learn and help there should be a list of things people want in the info pool that is not yet in there. And also ideas that have not been carfully studied.(ex: the homemade visco machine)

 

Well I got to go so this may not be thought out as well as it should be.

[nesler]

For people like me who are determined to learn and help there should be a list of things people want in the info pool that is not yet in there. And also ideas that have not been carfully studied.(ex: the homemade visco machine)

You know, we've had a list of what was in the info pool, but I don't recall if we've had a wishlist type thing before. I know we've done that sort of thing informally ("anybody got xxx?"), but not in any organized fashion. Not a bad idea. As far as learning the basics, keep reading the forums, search the internet (rec.pyrotechnics is a great source), and you'll do fine.

 

And Kilo_G, no kidding. Sigh.

[Boomer]

"My concerns are with the KIPE/KIFE and Uncle Fester's stuff. It may be accurate, but I'm a little wary of HE-related stuff with "kitchen" in the title."

 

May be accurate? Fester yes, though he gives cooking recipes only, and his detonators cross the border to insanity (NI3). But the kitchen shit is full of screaming errors. Like the "dealy red gas nitrogen trioxide", or NG and EGDN both being trinitro compounds...

 

Throw 'em out, they are all over the net anyway. Keep Davis, Fordham and K+M as a HE reference for pyros.

[ActionTekJackson]

I will see what I can else I can do but I have little experiance with online hosting etc...

I'm sure there are plenty of us that can help with that area, myself included.

[nesler]

"My concerns are with the KIPE/KIFE and Uncle Fester's stuff. It may be accurate, but I'm a little wary of HE-related stuff with "kitchen" in the title."

 

May be accurate? Fester yes, though he gives cooking recipes only, and his detonators cross the border to insanity (NI3). But the kitchen shit is full of screaming errors. Like the "dealy red gas nitrogen trioxide", or NG and EGDN both being trinitro compounds...

 

Throw 'em out, they are all over the net anyway. Keep Davis, Fordham and K+M as a HE reference for pyros.

Thanks for the info, as I've never bothered reading the damn things. I just always figured that Blindreeper was smart enough to not contribute something that retarded to the pool. Guess I was wrong. What a dumbass.

[Mumbles]

I think his big thing was to have all 4 of the kitchen books together. I gave him KIFE, which is usually the elusive one, and he basically copied and pasted them together. I think it was mostly for E&W anyway.

 

I have a new book I am planning to contribute. Incomplete Book of Girandolas anyone?

[Rooster]

I'm looking forward to that, Mumbles, even though girandola building is mnot one of my first projects. We need someone to scan the latest AFN. That one, I REALLY want. I plan on contributing Hardts book.