thebobman Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 I was wondering why the forum didn't have a thread on KNO3-based star comps. I have a hard time getting chemicals and KNO3 is the only oxidizer I can get at the moment. It's cheap, easy-to-get and the comps are rarely harder to make than BP. I'll post some of my own once I figure out the ratios. KNO3/sugar/magnesium/dextrin wetted with pure alcohol and pumped into 1/4" diameter cylindrical stars gave me what I called "Kamikaze Strobes".Their really hard to make and need to be primed, but I put some in a 1" tube with some loose BP, and fired it out of a mortar and it looked pretty damn cool. I'll have the ratios in a week or two.
Mumbles Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 I move this for the time being. This section is more for established and tested compositions, not works in progress.
Jwilson Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 (edited) Like you I have a hard time acquiring other oxidizers so I have created a list of compositions I have found online for free from various sources. I have not tested any of these except for TT.KClO3_and_KClO4_free_compositions.rtf If anyone has more or changes for the ones I listed please respond. Edited January 21, 2009 by Jwilson
Brakkie Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 The Bobman just try taking a regular comp like C6 or TT and add about 10% of your metal of choice. It could be Magnalium, Aluminium, Titanium or Magnesium and pretty much any range of mesh will work. Keep an eye on using Magnesium in wetted comps though, coat it with linseedoil or potassiumdichromate (wouldn't recommend that personally) before use.
firetech Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 I have come up with a composition that creates a yellow flame. I have not yet tried making it into stars although it burns extremely slowly so it must be small and needs a black powder prime. The comp is 3/2/1 KNO3/ Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda)/ Sulfur. It needs to be very fine. Gives of a bit of slag so you might need to do some work with the ratios if you want to reduce that.
Yankie Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 I have come up with a composition that creates a yellow flame. I have not yet tried making it into stars although it burns extremely slowly so it must be small and needs a black powder prime. The comp is 3/2/1 KNO3/ Sodium Bicarbonate (baking soda)/ Sulfur. It needs to be very fine. Gives of a bit of slag so you might need to do some work with the ratios if you want to reduce that. Try upping the KNO3, adding some meal powder, or some charcoal. this will make it burn faster and with a bigger flame.I too have made some nice yellows, from a similar formula too, never bothered to record it though.Another KNO3 based star composition, sorry to blow my own horn, but Yankie's Flashing Stars, they are pretty good. http://www.pyroguide.com/index.php?title=Y..._Flashing_Stars Also theres D1 glitter, reeper silver ect.
firetech Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 I haven't really found the time to do such a test to find the stoichiometric ratio. Although, the stars are quite dim as it is and would barely be visable at such a great distance such as that from an aerial shell.
Weasel Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Also theres D1 glitter, reeper silver ect.I was wondering about Reeper silver...what's the comp?Wasn't it something like 95/5 Meal/Titanium?I have seen youtube videos of these stars and they look really nice.
Seymour Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 I've also seen "Reeper silver' with 20% Al added. Essentially, an(ex?) Australian Pyro - "Blindreeper" - was quite successful in getting his name attached to Black powder/Atomised Al streamers, which I very much doubt he was the first to make. I'm quite fond of the one with 15% Al, and quite like the more descriptive name "BP/Al streamer". I also replace the (inferior) Dextrin with Gum Arabic.
Mumbles Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Blindreeper used to be a prominent member here. If you can believe it, he was an even more epic poster than I am. He actually beat me to 1000 on the old forum. We were putting up like 40 posts a day in a race. We used to be good friends, but some things happened, and I haven't talked to him (unfortunately) in years. Yes, he attached his name to it, and I also doubt he was the first to make it. It's a nice star, but I hardly would be willing to name it.
Seymour Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Do you know what happened to him Mumbles? I got the impression that he was unfortunate enough to be forced to leave the hobby?? I only talked to him once, but it seemed that he managed to progress the hobby in Australia to an extent that few can rival...
Mumbles Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 I unfortunately do. It was probably partially my fault he left. There were some things going on at the time, and I may have had to change his password to hack into his account. He was obviously not happy about this, and wasn't around much longer. He was kind of getting out of things anyway, but we definitely accelerated the process. He got much more into spear fishing I heard.
Ralph Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) i have some nice recipies i have developed i have been doing this stuff for quite a while before discovering forums and stuff with compostions ralphs glitter i developed it quite some time ago and it looks great kno3 28charcoal 6sulfur 6200-400 mesh shperical al 4and than 2-4 dex or 6 if you are one of those people who insist on things adding up to 50 or 100 i normally use 3 but 2 works 4 does as whell 6 gives a realy realy hard star and still works quite well do not use other binders simple yellow 50 kno320 aluminium 200-400 mesh shperical or very greasy bright flake may be used but i woldnt recomend it24 sulfur 3 nacl3 binder dextrin redgum nc and gum arabic all work whell though red gum is the prefered binder as these are very slightly hydroscopic +2% boric acida very simple charcoal star i call the last minute stars becuse if you bind them with redgum you can put them in a shell with in the hour and even though the centers are still wet they will burn whell (i am sure these have been made by many people 60kno330 charcoal10 sulfur these are some easy to make kno3 stars Edited January 31, 2009 by Ralph
a_bab Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Mumbles, I never herd of him after that "info pool" story either... The funny thing is, pretty much all the involved books are everywhere now. This is an interesting thread because I talked to somebody who never had access to more then KNO3 as an oxydiser and we concluded that with a bit of an effort pretty much all the colors could be made with these BP based stars, not of the same quality as the KP-AP ones obviously. My guess is that nobody bothered to study this issue. White - easily obtainable with extra sulphur and/or metallic dust. (look for "white comet" compo)Yellow - already discussed; basically it could be either certain charcoals or a sodium salt. A variation could be the NaNO3 as an oxidiser.Red - in the literature certain charcoals are known to produce quite a "believable" red. *Maybe* strontium/calcium salts would worth to be explored, but giving the fact that chlorine is needed, maybe not.Green - simple to use as an "electric green" with "granite" or "zinc spreaders" type of stars. The latter needs potassium dichromate though.Blue - Zinc could be made to burn with a "blueish" hue in certain conditions. Actually, the zinc flame in air is more blue than green. I need to get the data from somebody who obtained blue with KNO3/Zn/don't know what else. I promise to get back with the formula; don't expect to be a "cop blue" though... I guess it's likely to be a washed out blue.
andyboy Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) .... This is like you say an interesting thread, both with regards to Blind and the stars I for one would love to explore the colours from KNO3 deal. Problem is that I'm not that smart and don't have access to a whole lot of chems (well some, like platinum oxide, but not for colours). Oxidizers are pretty hard to come by except for KNO3 so this would definatly be a revolution in the hobby, probably not the trade though. Edited February 3, 2009 by andyboy
Mumbles Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Yes, I believe Andyboy may have been around for this, maybe not a mod, but at least a member. A_bab, you've been around for what seems like forever, so you may have been present. For not being that old, I have plenty of stories. I have a lot of them written down. Perhaps one day it will turn into a good book. Considering what I have done in the past, there is no other fair way to distribute it besides free on the Internet. Sorta relating to the topic, if it's not Yellow, White, or a shitty orange, I doubt it can be made with KNO3 as the oxidiser.
Seymour Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Sorta relating to the topic, if it's not Yellow, White, or a shitty orange, I doubt it can be made with KNO3 as the oxidiser. Well... There are the REALLY old (pre-chlorates) reds and greens. With fine magnesium and a chlorine donor you can get unmistakable reds and greens. But they are not only unmistakably red or green, but also unmistakably inferior However by the time you have Barium nitrate, Magnesium and heavy metal chlorides to add to your Potassium nitrate, you are going to have a hard time explaining why you do not just use them (having replaced the Hg/Pb chloride with a nicer alternative)on their own... Also, Mumbles, you forget zinc.
andyboy Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Yes, I believe Andyboy may have been around for this, maybe not a mod, but at least a member. Sorta relating to the topic, if it's not Yellow, White, or a shitty orange, I doubt it can be made with KNO3 as the oxidiser. I became a Mod after blind was "fired" (pun) and was a member for maybe a year before that. OTWhat about KNO3 and metal carbonates such as Barium or Strontium Carbonate, with a chlorine doner/fuel/binder like Parlon or PVC. Is it possible at least in theory or am I just wasting space and time? Found something that I am not willing to try out: Blue star #8Source: rec.pyrotechnics. Posted by Tommy Hakomaki <tommy.hakomaki@mailbox.swipnet.seComments:Preparation: Potassium nitrate.................................40Sulfur............................................12Mealpowder........................................40Copper-ammonium nitrate...........................30Charcoal..........................................10Rosin.............................................5 The Copper Ammonium Nitrate (can I hear you say "Tetramine Copper Nitrate" Cu(NH3)4(NO3)2)) seems like a really bad idea more suited for another section of the board.
Pretty green flame Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 *Snip*What about KNO3 and metal carbonates such as Barium or Strontium Carbonate, with a chlorine doner/fuel/binder like Parlon or PVC. Is it possible at least in theory or am I just wasting space and time?*Snip* A red may be feasible if you go heavy on a metal fuel to bring up the temp, think Magnesium, the green will deffinately be shitty with KNO3 and Barium carbonate, no doubt there.
Seymour Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 the green will deffinately be shitty with KNO3 and Barium carbonate, no doubt there. However I a confident it would be a lovely white star
andyboy Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 (edited) Someone posted a spectrum/temperature chart that I would love to see again but I'm searching with the wrong words or something. Anybody remember where it is? Please post it here so I can DL it or point me in the right direction. Edit: BTW Seymour, that's not helping unless you specify why. Edited February 4, 2009 by andyboy
Mumbles Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 All the MgO, combined with the weak BaOH emitter in the flame, would almost without a doubt produce a white star. Potassium has a nasty habit of washing out green unless you go heavy on the metals and chlorine donors to give lots of MgCl(UV emitter) and BaCl(good green emitter). Check out the 3rd metallic green formula here. It may give some insite.http://www.privatedata.com/byb/pyro/pfp/st...Green%20organic I'd go with maybe 40 parts KNO3, and add a few parts charcoal to smooth the burn. I'd probably add some sulfur too. At least with chlorates and perchlorates, it makes the colors a bit better.
Seymour Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Edit: BTW Seymour, that's not helping unless you specify why. It was just a joke about Barium carbonate greens. I was not taking it seriously enough to get into the chemistry of it, and I assumed the mood of the post would be pretty clear. I'm sorry that it was not, or if it was too off topic. As for the chemistry, Mumbles summed it up nicely.
andyboy Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Thanks for the explanation Mumbles, great as always. Ok, so Barium Carbonate greens aren't that good, did not know that. No problem Seymour, I am just getting in to this and need a little more knowledge before I can understand those jokes. It's pretty much like this joke, you have to have a little knowledge of chemistry before getting it: -Why do white bears dissolve in water?-Because they're polar.
Recommended Posts