Rolling Stars

[swervedriver]

Hi guys. My first attempt at rolling stars is with D1 glitter and I'm having some success. The charcoal used in the comp has been tried two ways- first 6% airfloat and 5% ~60 mesh, and second all 11% airfloat, with same results. The comp is ball milled sans aluminum for 30 minutes with 4% dextrin in the mix. I'm using 75/25 water alcohol with boric acid solution atomized directly on the stars while rolling, and I have some questions maybe someone has some advice for.

 

The first problem I'm having is this, as I roll, I size the stars every so often to 3/8", but new "cores" keep starting all by themselves and it's like a never ending run. It seems I'll never finish due to new cores starting throughout the process, creating new small star cores continuously. I've been through about 500 grams of comp and still have the same batch size I started with of varying sized stars even after removing a couple of hundred 3/8 inch stars. I don't see any excess powdered comp rolling around while building them up, it all sticks to the stars or the roller itself. Which brings me to my problem number two... probably 15 to 20 percent of my comp is sticking to the stainless steel barrel instead of the stars themselves. I keep the spray directly on the stars and avoid the barrel as much as possible with both spray and comp. Any suggestions? Thanks

 

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8733/stars2am5.jpg http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/107/stars1cv3.jpg

Edited December 9, 2008 by swervedriver

[Miech]

It seems you need to use more solvent to wet your stars. They need to be so wet they are just below the point they will stick together. Then, add a little bit of dry composition by sprinkling it over the stars, not dumping it in your roller all at once. Using as much solvent as still goes well, and adding small amounts of dry composition should give you a nearly clean rolling bowl, nice uniform round stars and a good feeling about the result.

 

Ricing the composition before rolling it may make it easier to roll with, just dampen with denatured alcohol, granulate through a 20~40 mesh screen and let it dry for some hours.

[swervedriver]

hey thanks for the tip Miech. I started to do just that at the end of my last roll. Next round I Will add more solvent so they just start to stick together like you say.

 

On a side note, I just lit my first 3" shell about 5 minutes ago. I can't believe it worked so well, perfect big round break with chrys 6 cut stars. SUCCESS! hehehe, I'm fired up man, that was awesome! I used plastic hemis and 4 staggered equatorial wraps of 1/2" strapping tape 3 layers thick, no kraft pasting at all. Just like the 4" plastic shell tutorial on skylighter's site describes. I used balsa BP on grass seed with whistle booster. I just wanted to shoot one, it worked great! I love this stuff!

[swervedriver]

Oh one more thing, should I use a shaker of some sort for the comp, like a big salt or spice shaker? I've been slowlng sprinkling the comp in using a plastic spoon, slowly.

[tentacles]

You don't need a shaker or any kind of special device to put the comp on the stars in the roller, just try and spread it around a bit as you put it in. Something that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread is that charcoal heavy stars - especially when that charcoal is airfloat - can be a whore to roll and not get all different sizes.

 

Congrats on the successful shell!

[Miech]

Ricing helps a lot in getting your charcoal stars nice and round. It prevents the formation of dry spots in your stars, and it doesn't make so much dust. I've never really had a problem with rolling such things since I rice such compositions, while before I did I found it nearly impossible to roll it.

[swervedriver]

OK, I'm going to rice the composition next round of rolling. I always wondered what people meant by "ricing", you've made it clear now. Thanks for the help guys. peace

[swervedriver]

Just a follow-up post. That was the problem, I wasn't using quite enough solvent and not spraying them frequently enough. Now the stars are all building more evenly and nicely round. No more little cores popping out of nowhere.

 

Keeping the barrel clean is still a challenge though, maybe ricing it will help out with that. Thanks again.

[Mumbles]

You may want to reconsider your sprayer. The standard spray bottles that cleaners and such come in usually produce too wide of a spray to be useful. You end up wetting the barrel inadvertently. You don't give a star roller size, so I can not be sure, but it is something to consider. People have had success with starting cores and smaller mills using very small spray bottles that sample or travel sized bug spray, cologne, body spray, etc come in. You might want to talk to a mom/girlfriend/sister to see if they have any that are running low. Your stars may smell like melon madness for a little while, but some washing will clear most of it out.

[swervedriver]

lol at "melon madness".

 

I'm using a little travel size pump "atomizer", not one of those adjustable screw down nozzle cleaner-type sprayers. I was actually considering using one of the adjustable larger sprayers after the stars get to1/8" or so, but have not done so yet. It takes about 200 finger presses to empty one of those little 2 oz travel sized bottles.

 

It's an 8 liter/2 gallon round bottomed stainless mixing bowl for a barrel. I avoid the barrel as much as possible when spraying the cores, and it stays clean for about 100 grams or so, but once a thin layer gets started on the bowl, it just goes. I have a feeling the airfloat is the culprit.

Edited December 10, 2008 by swervedriver

[tentacles]

If you have a ball mill, you could try your hand at a tire roller - I've found that the standard type of cleaner sprayer works great with them.. When I'm done rolling, I scrape the bottom of the tire (with stars still inside) and then wet the stars and most of the comp will stick to them.. After I've finished rolling for the day, I scrape again (more thoroughly) and make stars out of the scrapings.

 

A tire roller is just a tire with no wheel on a ball mill type assembly, though you may want to spind it a bit faster or slower depending on the tire and your mill. I made a couple of three step pulleys for my mill so I can adjust the speed, it's quite helpful when rolling stars... not so much when milling.

[swervedriver]

That's what I've been doing, scraping the still wet stuck-on comp after rolling the stars and pressing comets with it.

 

I'd love to see a picture or three of that ball mill/tire/pulley setup.

[tentacles]

I think there are a couple pictures of my mill somewheres. It's nothing special, a piece of MDF with two strips of wood that the pillow blocks sit on and the motor at one end. I made the pulleys out of MDF and aluminum (screws holding discs of MDF to the aluminum which is used to connect it to the motor shaft). I turned the pulleys on my lathe. For belting I am currently using a polyurethane type round belt material that you heat up and moosh together to form belts of any size.

[swervedriver]

Sounds good. I'll keep that in mind when I build a new ball mill.

 

All done with the star rolling. The smaller ones built up fine. All said and done, I have about 4 pounds of 3/8" stars from only around 100 tiny cores I began with. lol, well, I'm more than happy with the results. Not bad for throwing the roller together with some old stuff lying around the house, but a 2 gallon bowl is a bit small. I force dried a star earlier today and lit it tonight. The D1 glitter looks great. Next round I'll try my luck with two comps. I want to try out some pistol primer or dragon egg cores maybe.

 

Thanks a bunch, it's been a great learning experience. Not hard to do, it just took me a lot longer than cutting them up. I guess I'll be a little quicker as I get some experience under my belt.

[Bonny]

Not hard to do, it just took me a lot longer than cutting them up. I guess I'll be a little quicker as I get some experience under my belt.

 

It should go a bit faster, but making cut stars is the quickest method, unless of course you have a production line of star rolling machines running.

[firetech]

I've been trying to roll some stars lately by hand. They look like raspberries...

I'm just rolling them in a stainless steel wok. Since it's just to try and not to produce and real large quantities of rolled stars, I have been using steel airgun bb's as cores. Anyone got any advice on rolling stars by hand?

[al93535]

The stars are spiking, Add more alcohol to the water. Try starting at about 30/70 alc/water but you can go to 50/50. Get the stars as wet as possible, roll them hard then add dry comp slowly until no more comp will be picked up. Keep rolling. The moisture will move to the surface and you can add more dry comp. This time you can add more water/alcohol and begin the process again.

[TrueBluePyro]

Here is a photo of my star roller, I thought it would be best here, to save making another thread.

 

This is the star roller based on passfire's design.

Tell me what you think?

 

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww347/TrueBluePyro/img_1994.jpg

[FrankRizzo]

That frame is pretty hardcore! You will want to shield that motor though. As you're rolling stars, excess comp may sometimes find its way outside of the tire. If it were to get into the motor, it could be ignited.

[swervedriver]

Very nice TBP, that thing is a beast! I just got a new welder, time to make some toys

[TrueBluePyro]

Thanks , I know a bit of comp might find its way to the motor but I guess that will be bad luck, cause I am not going to put a cover on it, just means more work, and if it does ignight it wont be much cause most of it is wet, only a very small amount will be in the air, but you are right that I should put on there. Its my choice I guess, but I always accept advice, cheers

[FrankRizzo]

Thanks , I know a bit of comp might find its way to the motor but I guess that will be bad luck, cause I am not going to put a cover on it, just means more work, and if it does ignight it wont be much cause most of it is wet, only a very small amount will be in the air, but you are right that I should put on there. Its my choice I guess, but I always accept advice, cheers

 

 

It would be extremely FOOLHARDY for you not to shield the motor. The fireball would easily reach back to the load of stars you had rolling in the tire, and I doubt you'd outrun the fireball.

 

Here's a video that was posted on Passfire yesterday. It's a pile of stars, thoroughly soaked with water. http://www.pyrobin.com/files/pile%20of%20stars.avi

 

If I were a mod, you'd be very close to losing your account for posting about how you compromised your safety for laziness . We've all worked very hard to keep this forum and it's members safe.

[TheSidewinder]

TrueBlue, don't even think about it. Take the time and shield it.

 

(The only exception to that rule would be if it were an explosion-proof motor, but I can see from the picture that it isn't.)

 

Frank's correct, in that an ignition in the motor could easily result in a nasty fire. One that you, or another, may or may not live to regret.

 

You'd likely get away with it for the short term, but in the long run you're taking unnecessary chances.

[50AE]

Wait, isn't the motor brushless ? If it is, how it will ignite a composition, when there will be no sparks inside ?

If it isn't or you're insure, make a shield, it's not hard to do.

 

I also have a suggestion - because the tire is black, do you clearly see how the stars do, especially black colored ones ? You could install a LED lamp pointing to the bottom of the tire. It will light up your stars and you will easily see their rolling progress.

[FrankRizzo]

Ideally, you're rolling stars outdoors. All the light you need is provided by the big fusion reactor in the sky.