kcnkickthecat Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 Hi all, I'm new on here so please be nice... lol. I have come up with a colour system and NightHawkInLight suggested that the members of the APC forum may be able to have some fun with it! The system is similar to Veline's (in that the spectral emitters can be blended to create composite colours) but has 5 colour points and a simple base mix that is the same for all colours. Have fun! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hejEEH3M64I This is the link to the vid of what they look like, the formulae are in a video linked to this one. Thank you, KCN.
GraafVaag Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 (edited) Hey, welcome on the APC forums! That colour system looks pretty cool! You made a very nice blue for a metallic fueled mix. I've only archieved those results with organic fueled compositions. On the other side it looks like your orange could still use some tuning, or is this a camera error? Why do you use both PVC and Parlon in these mixes? As fuel and chlorine donor? Ciao,Vaag Edited October 28, 2008 by GraafVaag
kcnkickthecat Posted October 28, 2008 Author Posted October 28, 2008 Thanks for the nice welcome, the orange in this vid was the 'pre-tweaked' version, with the Ca(NO3)2 it is much, much brighter. To start with I was trying to get colours out of the chems I had at the time, which included CaSO4, but when I realised they all worked well (other than the orange) it seemed silly not to use Ca(NO3)2 for the orange, to keep with the compatiblity that I was trying to achieve.
qwezxc12 Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 (edited) kcn, Very nice work. I too, am curious with the choice of both PVC and Parlon as fuel/chlorine donor...It is a very nice blue for a metal fueled, KClO4 formula...(I gave up on that route and went saran / NH4ClO4) - you must have access to good quality KClO4 not to 'white-out' the flame. I have to second GraafVaag's comment that the orange formula looked less luminous and had a smaller flame envelope than the rest. Did you dry the Calcium Nitrate before mixing? Calcium Nitrate is hygroscopic and is commonly obtained as the tetrahydrate. Perhaps this would account for the smaller flame envelope? Anyway...nice work! edit...You replied as I was typing my question...the Orange in the vid was Calcium Sulfate...got it. Edited October 28, 2008 by qwezxc12
kcnkickthecat Posted October 28, 2008 Author Posted October 28, 2008 I missed part of you post, PVC and parlon are there as fuels and donors.
kcnkickthecat Posted October 28, 2008 Author Posted October 28, 2008 you must have access to good quality KClO4 not to 'white-out' the flame. I'm not sure how this blue happened, I do try to use as pure chems as I can lay my hands on (and that I can afford!). Thank you for the good response. I too tried NH4ClO4 but couldn't get them to light reliably, priming them (well actually finding a compatible prime) was impossible.
Miech Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 Try the following prime: 74 Potassium Perchlorate12 Red Gum09 Charcoal05 Dextrin You could leave out the dextrin and bind with red gum in alcohol, but I found binding with dextrin way easier. Dust with meal to be absolutely sure of ignition. PS: You got a PM on youtube from me. I really like your color system, and for sure I'm going to see for myself how it looks in real life.
Pretty green flame Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 Could you share your formulas for these stars? Emm...like here... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=j33ZiY50-5c
tentacles Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 I missed part of you post, PVC and parlon are there as fuels and donors......I'm not sure how this blue happened, I do try to use as pure chems as I can lay my hands on (and that I can afford!). Thank you for the good response. I too tried NH4ClO4 but couldn't get them to light reliably, priming them (well actually finding a compatible prime) was impossible. I've been experimenting off and on with converting the AP/Cu Benz blue to KP, and I tried several chlorine donors - but oddly, I have a mix that I was just jacking around with and added two different donors to (in ultimately quite large proportions) and the blue from that is MUCH better than from similar amounts of donor of one or the other type. Further experimentation is needed, and unfortunately I do not own any parlon. I have PVC, Saran and Dechlorane.
The-T Posted October 28, 2008 Posted October 28, 2008 (edited) The colors look great, I may try these once I get some more chems. Edited October 28, 2008 by The-T
kcnkickthecat Posted October 28, 2008 Author Posted October 28, 2008 I've been experimenting off and on with converting the AP/Cu Benz blue to KP, and I tried several chlorine donors - but oddly, I have a mix that I was just jacking around with and added two different donors to (in ultimately quite large proportions) and the blue from that is MUCH better than from similar amounts of donor of one or the other type. Further experimentation is needed, and unfortunately I do not own any parlon. I have PVC, Saran and Dechlorane. Strange that... I couldn't believe the difference adding chlorine donors together could have, with only one donor or the other these stars were nowhere near what they are now.
kcnkickthecat Posted October 28, 2008 Author Posted October 28, 2008 The colors look great, I may try these once I get some more chems. Thanks mate.
tentacles Posted October 29, 2008 Posted October 29, 2008 (edited) Since trying to extract meaningful information from yuhtube is frustrating at best... Here's the formulas from the video: Base mix (parts/100)MgAl: 10 (what mesh size?)Parlon 8PVC 5Willow C 3Red gum 4 Blue:KP 60CuO 10 YellowKP 45KNO3 15NaNO3 10 OrangeKP 50Ca(NO3)2 20 (Dry or hydrate?) RedKP 45Sr(NO3)2 25 GreenKP 50Ba(NO3)2 20 Bind with NC (Have you tried binding with the red gum or other binder?) Interesting idea to use benzolift as prime - it would light very easy and the whistle component would make for a hot burn. I've considered trying whistle as prime. Those are some great looking colors for a compatible color system, even the blue keeps up. Edited October 29, 2008 by tentacles
FrankRizzo Posted October 29, 2008 Posted October 29, 2008 Every single one of them looks washed out in that photo. Would you happen to have shell footage using these stars?
psyco_1322 Posted October 29, 2008 Posted October 29, 2008 Frank, his first post has a link to a star mine video.
kcnkickthecat Posted October 29, 2008 Author Posted October 29, 2008 Since trying to extract meaningful information from yuhtube is frustrating at best... Here's the formulas from the video: Base mix (parts/100)MgAl: 10 (what mesh size?)Parlon 8PVC 5Willow C 3Red gum 4 Blue:KP 60CuO 10 YellowKP 45KNO3 15NaNO3 10 OrangeKP 50Ca(NO3)2 20 (Dry or hydrate?) RedKP 45Sr(NO3)2 25 GreenKP 50Ba(NO3)2 20 Bind with NC (Have you tried binding with the red gum or other binder?) Interesting idea to use benzolift as prime - it would light very easy and the whistle component would make for a hot burn. I've considered trying whistle as prime. Those are some great looking colors for a compatible color system, even the blue keeps up. Hi, sorry for my vagueness mate... The MgAl is 250-400#, the Ca(NO3)2 is the hydrate (it saves you/me from having to dry it) as is the Sr(NO3)2. If it doesn't work with what I have (hydrates) I don't use it because I'm far too lazy to dry chems. Using NC lacquer as the solvent/binder was to try and negate some of the problems that can occur with the hygroscopic nature of some of the chems used in my system, I know what a pain NaNO3 can be to keep dry in comps and I thought as NC is so impervious to water it seemed like a reasonable choice. Benzolift works quite adequately as a prime, which is handy as I have it lying around anyway (no ball mill yet, you see), It even seems to be a fairly vigorous prime. I prime them so that the stars look like a freshly tarred and gravelled road.
kcnkickthecat Posted October 29, 2008 Author Posted October 29, 2008 Every single one of them looks washed out in that photo. Would you happen to have shell footage using these stars? Hi, Sorry I don't have any shell footage of these. My garden is about 30'x30' and surrounded on all sides by houses and I don't want to p*ss my neighbours off too much... I have to keep it fairly small, but as the 5th of Nov is rapidly approaching and it's pretty much a free for all (pyro-wise) so hopefully I'll have some more vids of headers and shells with them in.
Richtee Posted October 29, 2008 Posted October 29, 2008 Hi, Sorry I don't have any shell footage of these. My garden is about 30'x30' and surrounded on all sides by houses and I don't want to p*ss my neighbours off too much... I have made 3 of the five, no PVC so went with all parlon, and bound with poly glue/acetone with one batch, NC with the other. Both not bad at all. What's neat is I made a 100 G amount of the base, and 10 G colors...to play with. So far, so good!
NightHawkInLight Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 Way to go kcn. If I had the chemicals needed I would certainly be using your color system often. Very well done.
kcnkickthecat Posted October 30, 2008 Author Posted October 30, 2008 I have made 3 of the five, no PVC so went with all parlon, and bound with poly glue/acetone with one batch, NC with the other. Both not bad at all. What's neat is I made a 100 G amount of the base, and 10 G colors...to play with. So far, so good! I'm happy that you like them, which 3 did you try? Way to go kcn. If I had the chemicals needed I would certainly be using your color system often. Very well done. Thanks mate.
Richtee Posted October 30, 2008 Posted October 30, 2008 I'm happy that you like them, which 3 did you try? Red, Blue and Green. The blue is a bit pale, but I dunno if that's because of the lack of PVC, or the poly binder, or both. I did not do the blue with NC.. that will narrow it down. Used a bit of Chinese needle Ti in one batch for fun. I love that effect. Thank YOU... I'll keep playing around!
Miech Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Woudn't it be a better idea to use sodium chloride instead of sodium nitrate in the orange formula? I believe it is slightly less hygroscopic, and as it is supplying its own chlorine it should make a very bright orange. You might need to alter the ratio between the potassium nitrate and potassium perchlorate though, to keep the oxygen balance right.
Mumbles Posted October 31, 2008 Posted October 31, 2008 Chlorine plays absolutely no role in yellow production. The emitter is atomic sodium, not the chloride as is common with the other colorants. The hygroscopicity does give reason to substitute it out though. I'd personally prefer sodium (bi)carbonate or sodium oxalate, though they bring basicity into play. If anything is usable, cryolite is best. With how hydrated the sodium nitrate probably is, there would likely be little noticable change in burn speed, it may actually increase. You may also want to look into calcium carbonate as the orange donor. Extremely cheap, but will require some more oxygen. With how hydrated the nitrate is, burning speed probably wouldn't be affected as with the sodium.
Richtee Posted November 13, 2008 Posted November 13, 2008 Hi all, I'm new on here so please be nice... lol. I ran a 3" up last night using the red and blue from this system... not bad. My camera sux for this tho! Also, I am still having a hard time with symmerty. I am coming to the conclusion that it's almost impossible to get anything perfect with plastic hemi's sigh. Anyway... here:
Recommended Posts