failed fountain comp

[ewest]

I recently bought Tom Perigrin's book on Pyrotechnics and in it he gives some different compostions for fountains, I tried 4 of them and one of them just wouldn't light at all.

 

It's called Electric and the formula is:

Potassium Nitrate - 3

Charcoal - 1

Sulfur - 1

Antinomy Trisulfide - 9

Aluminum 12 micron - 1

Dextrin - 4

Meal D - 2

 

 

Now I bought all my chems from skylighter, I'm not making any of this stuff on my own, so the quality is good. The Meal D was ball milled for 4 hours or so. I know the meal D works because I used it in the other fountains successfully. I'm thinking maybe the formula is misprinted somehow or maybe I just plain screwed up when I was weighing everything out. Anyone ever used this comp before?

[FrankRizzo]

Try drilling into the composition slightly (~1/4") by twisting a drill between your fingers. Pack some of your meal powder into the recess and place your fuse.

 

Failing that, your potassium nitrate is not ground finely or mixed thoroughly enough with the rest of the composition.

[ewest]

Well I sort of actually tried that. When the first piece of visco fuse failed to light it, I took an ice pick (because I didn't have a drill bit on me at the time) and slowly pecked away at the fuse end so I could stick another piece of visco into the fluffed up composition a little farther into the tube. I still wouldn't light.

 

Then thinking I needed a hotter flame to get it going, I made a second fountain with an Iron #3 composition for the first half of the tube, then rammed the second half with the Electric comp I couldn't light. The first half did great, shooting sparks everywhere, scaring the dogs, then when it got to the Electric mix, it burned slightly and burned right through the side of the tube.

 

Maybe I do need to get the potassium finer, but I screened everything but the metals together 3 times, then dumped it all into a ziploc bag, added the metals and massaged the whole bag for 5-10 minutes. I would have thought that was adequate, but something’s obviously wrong. Maybe I should ball mill just the Pot. Nit./Charcoal/Sulfur together first then add the metals and Meal D after?

 

It just irritates me because it used quite a bit of Antinomy, which isn't cheap.

[Von Bass`]

When making those sort of compositions I grind the chemicals in a pestle and mortar (saving aluminium) to a flour like state. I'v never had a fountain fail.

[p_y_r_o]

How are you making your nozzels?

 

I used to use so much clay that the fuse never got to the composition.

[somebody]

That looks to be like shitloads overfueled..

Sure it's 3 parts and not 30 KNO3?

[Pyrohawk]

I'd have to agree with somebody.... That comp is way overfueled. Although fountain comps. usually are overfueled.....it does seem like it might be a bit much....

 

No gaurantees but I would consider trying to add a little more oxidizer and see if that helps.

[ewest]

For the nozzles, I'm using Tidy Cat, it works great. I have the 3/4" fountain kit from skylighter and use about 1 tsp of kitty litter for the nozzle. The fuse is getting into the comp because I made sure of that on the second try when I dug into it some more to get the second piece of visco in there. I was into the tube a good 1 1/2" past the clay.

 

I took the formula to be in parts, but I made each part 10grams, so for example I had 30grams KNO3 10grams Charcoal etc. But when I got to the Antinomy I was like 9 parts (90grams)? well ok. And then 4 parts Dextrin? I used 40 grams total. That just doesn't seem right to me. I'm not a Chemist or anything close, but it just looks wrong. Did I misinterpret the formula by assuming it was parts?

 

Anyway, I'm going outside now and fire off a 9 shot cake I made last night, wish me luck. (no fountains in this one)

[Frozentech]

For the nozzles, I'm using Tidy Cat, it works great.  I have the 3/4" fountain kit from skylighter and use about 1 tsp of kitty litter for the nozzle.  The fuse is getting into the comp because I made sure of that on the second try when I dug into it some more to get the second piece of visco in there.  I was into the tube a good 1 1/2" past the clay.

 

I took the formula to be in parts, but I made each part 10grams, so for example I had 30grams KNO3 10grams Charcoal etc.  But when I got to the Antinomy I was like 9 parts (90grams)?  well ok.  And then 4 parts Dextrin?  I used 40 grams total.  That just doesn't seem right to me.  I'm not a Chemist or anything close, but it just looks wrong.  Did I misinterpret the formula by assuming it was parts?

 

Anyway, I'm going outside now and fire off a 9 shot cake I made last night, wish me luck. (no fountains in this one)

As you may have aleady discovered, there are typo's in IPP by Tom Peregrin. It's a nice intro book, but it's easy to fall for certain omissions or typos. I would mentioned before but I missed seeing the dextrin and Antimony percentages you quoted. WAY overfueled / under oxidized. I wouldn't even mess with that comp, it irks me to use KNO3, C, S, *and* meal powder in a comp. Most formula seem to be either/or, or you can calculate substitution for the meal powder and up the ratios of those 3.

 

My favorite gerb/fountain comp : ( yes I know it's posted elsewhere on the forum )

 

Name: Gold Glitter fountain

Source: Lloyd Sponenburgh / rec.pyro

 

Potassium Nitrate---------------------------------54.8

Charcoal Airfloat----------------------------------11.0

Antimony Trisulfide, Dark Pyro, 325 mesh-----8.4

Sulfur------------------------------------------------7.3

Aluminum, atom, spher, 120-325 mesh--------7.3

Sodium Bicarbonate-------------------------------5.3

Dextrin----------------------------------------------5.3

Boric Acid-------------------------------------------0.5

 

Moisten with water to a stiff dough. Granulate through an 8-mesh screen

onto paper in a thin layer. Dry by airflow or breezy sunlight (avoid

direct, still wind, overhead sun).

 

This will produce a nice 8'-10' gold glittering gerb when choked to about

33% of the tube i.d.

 

 

PS watch out also for any purple comps in I.P.P. that call for Ammonium Perchlorate and MgAl !

They are not "introductory", as to safely make them requires treating the MgAl to protect from

reaction.

[ewest]

Thank you for confirming my suspicions, I was thinking it was a misprint in the formula or something like that. I mean really, 10 parts total fuel and only 3 parts KNO3 plus a little Meal D for oxidizer? Like I said earlier, I'm no chemist but I can tell that's just not right. But I figureed I should try the formula as written first before I started modifying it, I've been susprised before about comps that were questionably to me.

 

And thanks also for the tip on the gold glitter fountain, I've looked in the composition section for some fountain comps but hadn't picked one out to try yet, but I'll try this one as soon as I get my boric acid. Damn you parcel post why do you take so long....

[FrankRizzo]

If you get too tired of waiting, go to your local hardware store and look in the pesticide section. Pure boric acid is sold for killing roaches (~3.00/lb at Menards, IIRC).

[Ralph]

Yes way too much Antinomy.

It is a very hard thing to ignite.

LLL.

 

you brought up a 4 year old post and added nothing at all WTF is your problem

[Dr Boom]

once again worthy...

[dagabu]

[Megladon]

you brought up a 4 year old post and added nothing at all WTF is your problem

 

And now i see garbage posts that so many others were refering to that were filling up the forum.