Ammonium Perchlorate and Mg

[Richtee]

I'm going to have to start trying that poly glue thing as well...Seems I hear a lot of praise for it here.

Give it a shot... I can't believe more have not tried it. And priming...EASY! While "damp", coarse BP will stick like the dickens! And as a riser. just mush some about the base of the shell. Truly a versatile concoction.

[NightHawkInLight]

Can anyone let me in on this whole poly glue thing? I browsed through the thread stating its use as a fuel, but is it also now being used as simply a binder? For example, could it be used in many old star formulas as a replacement for SGRS, red gum, NC etc?

[flying fish]

The stars I was trying to bind with Red gum were a copper metal blue; I bound them with 5% RG and quite excessive amounts of methanol. They were cut stars, and I gave them what should have been plenty of time to dry (two weeks). I should also make this correction: the stars didn't actually fall apart on their own, they just were relatively easy (way too easy) to crush between the fingers. I also had gotten the "Chunky style" red gum and briefly mortar and pestled it into powder before adding it to the comp. Perhaps I didn't have the particle size fine enough for proper binding?

 

I know I've heard LOTS of people say that red gum works great for them, and so of course I do believe it. I just haven't felt like trouble-shooting the situation yet.

 

Edit: Here's also a thread on the poly glue:

http://www.apcforum.net/forums/index.php?s...mp;hl=poly+glue

Edited October 20, 2008 by flying fish

[Richtee]

Can anyone let me in on this whole poly glue thing? I browsed through the thread stating its use as a fuel, but is it also now being used as simply a binder? For example, could it be used in many old star formulas as a replacement for SGRS, red gum, NC etc?

 

I have used it 1-1 for red gum, acetone solvent. Has worked well. Also have used it as a prime, 70-30 with kperc. Sticks REAL well. And the star formulas become great rising comets...and they stick themselves to the shell! Look around page 78 or so for a couple posts I did on the comet app...and the stars too.

 

oops on edit in the A. shell thread.

Edited October 20, 2008 by Richtee

[NightHawkInLight]

Thanks guys.

[Richtee]

Thanks guys.

 

Sorry I was lazy last night....

3" White poly riser

and

Red poly riser

[tentacles]

I know I've heard LOTS of people say that red gum works great for them, and so of course I do believe it. I just haven't felt like trouble-shooting the situation yet.

 

 

The only successess I've had with it involved pre-dissolving it in alcohol, and using that as my wetting solution.. Keep in mind that the common red gum sold by FF and SL (and others) is about 30% crap - as in, not red gum. Predissolving means you leave that junk at the bottom of the RG solution container.. I rolled some RG bound stars at FrankRizzo's place that are hard as rocks. I think we used a 5% solution?

[flying fish]

Thanks for the info! I had heard of pre-dissolving with shellac, but I didn't know that red gum also required it.

[optimus]

Thanks for the info! I had heard of pre-dissolving with shellac, but I didn't know that red gum also required it.

 

You can always just sieve out the crap, I used to do this before I found some which is actually devoid of random twigs and stuff.

[Mumbles]

Around 60 mesh will separate the good from the bad. You can still use the coarser stuff to mix into polverone, or as a roughener in primes or similar types of applications where composition is not critical. Probably should also be noted that it is in fact a natural product. Even if I went to Australia/New Zealand and picked the purest nugget of the resin from the tree, scraped off all the crap by hand, etc. I'm still willing to bet that not all of it is soluble, despite what people seem to think on passfire.

[Seymour]

Mumbles, I thought that the resin currently sold as red gum was Yacca gum, exclusively harvested on Kangaroo Island, South Australia.I have also heard that previously "Red Gum" has been extracted from the sawdust at timber mills which had been processing certain Eucalyptus species. I am not aware of any red gum production in New Zealand, though it may have occurred. Kauri gum was a major export at one stage and I believe it did find use in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century in Pyrotechnics. I have collected a few kilo's of Kauri Gum, and it burns relatively well with perchlorates, but severely hinders the burning of emerald green type nitrate magnalium stars.

 

 

Flying fish, If your red gum is causing you trouble as a binder, why do you not use Parlon as a binder, or are these AP/other Cl donor than Parlon stars? My Parlon is a stronger binder than my Red Gum.

[Mumbles]

I just put both Australia and New Zealand in because I wasn't sure which location it actually came from, though the tree is probably capable of growing in both.. Now that you mention Kangaroo island it comes back to me now as the current sole commercial source. I'd wonder how the extracted stuff would fair against the harvested resin. I'd think it'd be extracted by a solvent or super critical CO2 or something like that, so that would indicate to me that it would have a high level of solubility. Despite not being a "true" red gum, it might still serve it's purpose well.

[Skai]

I'm not so good with aerials, haven't really tried making stars yet, so I don't know, but would there be anything that wrong with using ordinary clay mixed with some type of flammable powder? Obviously the clay wouldn't burn on its own, but if it were mixed with something that does, would it work? Wax would probably be stupid since it melts...

[NightHawkInLight]

I'm not so good with aerials, haven't really tried making stars yet, so I don't know, but would there be anything that wrong with using ordinary clay mixed with some type of flammable powder? Obviously the clay wouldn't burn on its own, but if it were mixed with something that does, would it work? Wax would probably be stupid since it melts...

No that will not work. You need an oxidizer and a fuel. Atmospheric O2 is not enough on its own for fireworks.

[Richtee]

I'm not so good with aerials, haven't really tried making stars yet, so I don't know, but would there be anything that wrong with using ordinary clay mixed with some type of flammable powder? Obviously the clay wouldn't burn on its own, but if it were mixed with something that does, would it work? Wax would probably be stupid since it melts...

Might want to peruse the "Newbie' section. And the others before posting such posts. Seriously.

[Skai]

I've lurked for awhile before posting, it was a simple question. No need to shoot me down, just tell me it's not a good idea. Yeesh, I hope that's not an indicator of the general board atmosphere. I've been working with ground fireworks because I don't quite trust myself making propellants yet. I use an open cylinder of clay to control the width of tubes for firecrackers sometimes, just making a suggestion (albeit apparently a bad one =P).

[tentacles]

No need to shoot me down, just tell me it's not a good idea.

 

Since you asked, please let me be the first to tell you "It's not a good idea". That said, I'm not sure what you're trying to convey here. By ground fireworks, I assume you mean salutes? We frown on ground salutes 'round here. There are plenty of things you can make that are not salutes, after all. Fountains, spinners, shells, lift... Hell, you can spend days just playing around with a bag of lift and a dummy shell, pyro catch style.

 

The only guys we "shoot down" here are mormons (j/k MM) and k3wls.

 

Also, I'm not sure why you posted this here (in this thread).

Edited October 24, 2008 by tentacles

[Richtee]

I've lurked for awhile before posting, it was a simple question. No need to shoot me down, just tell me it's not a good idea. Yeesh, I hope that's not an indicator of the general board atmosphere. I've been working with ground fireworks because I don't quite trust myself making propellants yet. I use an open cylinder of clay to control the width of tubes for firecrackers sometimes, just making a suggestion (albeit apparently a bad one =P).

 

I did not "shoot you down". I said to seriously do some more reading. And post questions like the one above in the "Newbie" forum. Obviously, that's where it belongs. I apologize for any implied or imagined "shooting". Normally I don't have to do that... I'm a good shot. Be safe and read up!

[Seymour]

Skai, Clay is not used as a binder in stars because, despite being a very poor binder it will hinder the urning severely. While Wax may seem to be a more logical choice, it is still not a very good binder, and its low melting temperature will hinder the burning, if not stop it. However, you are on the right track. Commonly used binders, such as Dextrin, Red Gum, Shellac and Parlon are fuels as well as binders, and in the case of Parlon, it can act as a Fuel, Chlorine donor and a binder.

 

The reason Richtee suggested posting in the Newbies section is that this is an unrelated thread to the topic you were asking about, and the newbie section has been created for such posts.

 

Tentacles, I think Skai has shown that he/she are not interested in ground salutes, and I trust that the ground fireworks are fountains, wheels ect.

[Skai]

Yeah, I realize a clay binding wouldn't work under normal circumstances, which is why I thought of mixing with a quantity of BP or slower-burning fuel. I suppose that wouldn't work either, though? Ah well. I was only making the suggestion because the OP stated that standard binders weren't working and I thought slowing the burn rate would be an acceptable tradeoff for lessening the danger of a spontaneous reaction. But if it won't work at all, no point. >_> I know most of the common binders, never heard of Parlon before, sounds like it might be worth trying out, thanks for the info there.

 

And yeah, most of what I've been making so far are fountains and colored multi-burst firecrackers (I hope that doesn't come too close to ground salutes for this board, if so I'll refrain from discussing them). I'd like to learn to make Roman candles, they're hard to find around here and they're great fun. ^^

[FrKoNaLeaSh1010]

Ground fireworks can include fountains, strobes, gerbs, lances, spinning colored devices like jumping jacks and a bunch more not just salutes. Also to whoever said parlon was a fuel I always thought it was a fire retardant if anything. It is a binder and chlorine donor but I always thought it was a fire retardant.

[mormanman]

The only guys we "shoot down" here are mormons (j/k MM) and k3wls.

Thanks Tentacles. Really thanks. Jerk. LOL.

[Seymour]

While Parlon is a very poor fuel, it does burn (just) with Potassium perchlorate. When Compositions are created, it is calculate in for both it's Chlorine, and Fuel values, otherwise you will end up with more Carbon than you intended.