Black Powder Rockets

[optimus]

You mean to say you can't find a drill-bit? You don't necesssarily need a drill to drill a core - it's quite easy to do it manually with a drill-bit and some gloves. What country are you in?

[ewest]

You can make your own ball mill, search this forum for them, there's plenty of them. Or if you want to buy one like I did, look for rock tumblers, they're basically the same thing.

 

Then for grinding media get lead fishing weights or just use coins (pocket change) as long as it's non sparking.

 

The great thing about pyro is you can make all the equipment and manufacture almost every chemical you'll need (within reason of course) If you can't buy something, learn how to fabricate it yourself.

[Boomer]

"The apparatus for making the hole only got through the 1m long tube halfway and I couldn't force more down."

 

Surely you did not mean *one meter* long tube?

 

Also, it sounds like you try to *press* the tool in like a nail, forcing the propellant to the sides. This will crumble the grain and give you a CATO. You have to *drill* the core out, hell even a screwdriver turned by hand will do that, it only takes much more time. And surely you can get a drill bit, this makes it a five-minutes-job even by hand.

[FrKoNaLeaSh1010]

I would never use a power drill in any of my fountains or rockets. I drill it out manually using a drill bit...doesn't take too long and I trust that better than a power drill.

[rocket]

I find when I use a drill press I can’t get it to be straight. By drilling it by hand I find I have more control and it greatly reduces the chance of the rocket igniting.

[brainfever]

IMHO, a power tool is okay when you:

 

- keep speeds very low (not more then 2 rotations per second!)

- drill a few mm, pull back and clean the drill bit, drill a few more mm, pull back again, ...

- don't put too much downward force on the drill.

- don't drill in heat or friction sensitive mixtures. (containing metals, (per-)chlorates, friction enhancers like sand of ground glass, ...)

- use common sense

[rocket]

Just a quick question about the nozzle is it essential that you drill the nozzle straight, I made a couple of rockets and some went sideways, made the sticks the right length so I’m pretty sure they weren’t the problem.

[maximusg]

It is important that you drill the nozzle straight. You have to remember that the force that pushes the rocket up, is due to the forcec pushing down from the gases escaping the nozzle. If the nozzle does not point straight down, the rocket is going to fly in the opposite direction.... Making for a very eratic flight path

[brainfever]

General thrust will still be pointed down though.

 

I think this can easily be solved by vector mechanics to calculate what the vertical force and the horizontal force will be.

 

F² = V² + H²

cos(a) x F = V

sin(a) x F = H

 

Or something ... not quite sure ... damn that's been a long time

 

Anyway, as long as you don't make it an angle greater then 10°, your general flight pattern will be hardly affected.

[al93535]

Alright,

 

I received my 1lb rocket tooling today, and I made three rockets. Two to test, and one for a header.

 

Here is the first test, the engine and a stick, No weight or header.

 

http://www.apcforum.net/files/1lbrockettest.wmv

 

Here is the second rocket with a dummy load of 228 grams. This rocket weighed 338 grams total.

 

http://www.apcforum.net/files/1lbrocketweighted.wmv

 

And here is my header rocket ready to go:

 

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v242/al9...t=1lbrocket.jpg

 

This is a two break rocket (very close in time from eachother, maybe .2 seconds.). The can shell has 6 Ti whistles with Ti reports. The ball shell is ruby red with win 20 pistil.

[Mephistos Minion]

1lb is 3/4" right? Where is the tooling from? I assume that is a core burner?

[FrankRizzo]

Very nice Al. What type of charcoal, and what BP ratio did you use for the fuel?

[al93535]

Cowboy brand mixed hardwood charcoal for the airfloat.

 

60% KNO3, 10% sulfur, 15% airfloat, 10% 60-100 mesh cowboy, and 5% 40-60 mesh pine.

[ActionTekJackson]

3/4" ID x 3 1/2" BP Rocket

 

Video of a 3/4" ID x 3 1/2" long Black Powder Rocket. The initial lifting thrust is actually from an amount of filler BP used to ignite all of the core at once, it unexpectedly lifted the rocket about 15' off the ground. As you can see in the vid, there is a short stop in burn when the actual core ignites and the engine takes off extremely fast. Albeit a mistake, it makes for a cool effect. This was just a test, the ones I use on the 4th will be 6" long with the same ID.

[_DB_]

Today I got inspired to make a BP rocket since it has been like a year since I made one ( ). I made it like I used to, that is ramming it with a hammer and a piece of dowel rod, and then drilling a core. I'm always afraid that I'm going to screw the whole thing up by drilling the core too long or something but I try to be as careful as possible. I then proceeded to hotglue it to stick, making sure that the whole thing balanced like it's supposed to. When it became dark out I proceeded outside to shoot it. The rocket was absolutely perfect! It flew straightly and didn't blow a plug or anything. This has convinced me to get back into BP rocketry, as I never got around to doing somethings I wanted to last time. Such as making shell headers. Overall I think that rockets are my favorite pyrotechnic device anyways.

[d4j0n]

Cowboy brand mixed hardwood charcoal for the airfloat.

 

60% KNO3, 10% sulfur, 15% airfloat, 10% 60-100 mesh cowboy, and 5% 40-60 mesh pine.

Wait, that doesn't add to 100, is that the right composition?

 

Is it bad for performance to just slow the composition when the nozzle is too small? I'd hate to make another rocket tooling set as mine was very hand made (epoxy, nail, etc)

[somebody]

60% KNO3

10% S

15% C(airfloat)

10% C(60-100mesh)

5% C(pine)

 

=100%

[Silverturk]

Today I finally gave myself some time to make a BP-rocket. I've made probably 30 or even more, and only two of them left the ground, and that was my first rockets. Then I made some more... first they CATO:ed, then they didnt lift, then they CATO:ed again... so now I made a paper tube with 12 mm ID and 10 mm wall thickness ( ! ), so it would be impossible for it to CATO.

 

I put it on a stump, so I would see how much thrust it would make and I wouldnt have to lose another rocket stick. Light the fuse and run away. But the motor didnt stay, it flew between two trees and got stuck between them. And what a sound! The rocket burned for about 2 sec, then it said "BOOM". When i looked what happened, I first realised that I couldnt get it unstuck. I had to use branch and hit it really hard to make it let go. Then I saw that it didnt spit the nozzle out, it was the last plug that couldnt hold the pressure (maybe because I made it really thin and didnt ramm it particulary hard).

I will make some more rockets to test tomorrow.

[Bug_X]

Now I getting realy pisst off, I can´t make the rocket fly and I can´t understand WHY!?!?

 

Help me!!!

 

I`m making endburners the measurement is this

 

Length is 90 mm

The diamter of the tube is 13 mm and the walls are 4 mm thick and very hard

The plugs is made in cat clay and very hard.

 

I have tryd very many combinations and this is some of them.

 

The weight of a complete rocket is 60 g and the fuel (Bp) weight 10g.

 

Slow BP

Nozzel 3mm 2,5mm core flyd slowly tp 0,7 m upp and then then the thrust was to low to continve and i fell back

Nozzel 2,5 mm, core 2,5 mm CATO

 

Fast BP

Nozzel 5mm, core 4mm, fly 5m and then lost all thrust

Nozzel 4,5mm, core 4, a really big bang.

 

What in hell is wrong???

 

/ Bug

[ActionTekJackson]

Now I getting realy pisst off, I can´t make the rocket fly and I can´t understand WHY!?!?

 

Help me!!!

 

I`m making endburners the measurement is this

 

Length is 90 mm

The diamter of the tube is 13 mm and the walls are 4 mm thick and very hard

The plugs is made in cat clay and very hard.

 

I have tryd very many combinations and this is some of them.

 

The weight of a complete rocket is 60 g and the fuel (Bp) weight 10g.

 

Slow BP

Nozzel 3mm 2,5mm core flyd slowly tp 0,7 m upp and then then the thrust was to low to continve and i fell back

Nozzel 2,5 mm, core 2,5 mm CATO

 

Fast BP

Nozzel 5mm, core 4mm, fly 5m and then lost all thrust

Nozzel 4,5mm, core 4, a really big bang.

 

What in hell is wrong???

 

/ Bug

Couple questions first, are they cored, or end burners? You start off saying they are end burners, but then go one in the examples and they all have cores. Either way, it sounds like your nozzle size is too small. I had the problem to start with. A nozzle too small will not give the rocket enough thrust, causing a slow take off and in some cases it gets pissed and just CATO's. If you haven't already, try a larger nozzle and see if that works.

[blaster_man]

I guess I don't understand this facination with glueing BP class engines, or even Estes, to a stick. It works, but it's crude, and somewhat unstable. With a propelled rocket, CG (senter of gravity) needs to be forward of CP (center of dynamic pressure) or instability will result. Using a long stick is a brute force way to make the formula work as per any bottle rocket. My many experiements with multi staged BP Estes rockets and neighboors diving for cover will prove the math out :-)

 

While I haven't got into engine building as much as I want to, I simply buy bulk 2" tubes and nose cones, and fire them with a metal rod and launch lug. Rocket has more stability this way and hence can carry more payload. In this respect too much altitude is a problem since I've put double staged E-engines up probably close to a mile and through clouds. I simply grind out the clay cap on the first stage and make sure the first stage is more snug than usual. Never had a problem with the second stage igniting

 

Otherwise, using D-12 O's for carrying pyrotechnics were my first really good experience at pyrotechnics. To add a little 'kick' to the ejection charge and insure everything in the rocket payload ignited, I'd use a half teaspoon of Pyrodex along with about a dozen matchheads sitting inside the top of the engine casing. That produces a relatively slow burning fire charge that clears the rocket payload, and ignites it everything in it.

 

For payloads, I've used a variety of dimestore fireworks. Clusters of morning glory sparklers cut from their sticks will float down from the sky in a cloud that lasts nearly as high as you shoot the rocket. I've also loaded my rockets with more than a dozen strobe pots and watched them fall from 900'. Haven't tried it, but a thick bundle of 'effects' fuse like flying fish or crackling fuse would be neat as well. These are cool effects that are interesting in their own right.

[ActionTekJackson]

So wait... you just put a nose cone on em? I would assume without a stick you'd have to have stabilizer fins correct? which to me are kind of a pain. However, I'll admit, probly more efficient, I too have had my fair share of ducking neighbors due to an imbalanced rocket.

[blaster_man]

Well, I admit trying it several times (rocket engines on sticks)

 

If you really want a cheap and fairly reliable rocket payload, mount the engine to a stick, and mount a toilet paper tube in front of it. Put your item of choice in the toilet paper tube, and have fun. Those kiddie jumping jacks make a rather cool show a few hunder feet up if you have enough of them.

 

I've found though that D-class engines are somewhat unstable when laucnhed this way because of their high thrust. C engines fare much better. I've no idea how much thrust the smaller DIY engines have, but I'm not assuming much more than a C class Estes. Also note a D class Estes has shorter thrust time than an E, but can push harder.

 

I gave up on the dual stage E class because I coulnd't get a consistent design where both stages were stable. Several times the first stage would go erratic several feet off the ground and do loops while everybody took cover, then when the second stage kidked in the rocket was stable, and it took off like a bat out of hell. I'm telling you, if you want to see something move quick, you should see an E-class rocket in a 1" rocket body fired horizontally. All you see is the smoke trail vanish over the horizon because it's too fast to track visually.

[Bug_X]

Now I getting realy pisst off, I can´t make the rocket fly and I can´t understand WHY!?!?

 

Help me!!!

 

I`m making endburners the measurement is this

 

Length is 90 mm

The diamter of the tube is 13 mm and the walls are 4 mm thick and very hard

The plugs is made in cat clay and very hard.

 

I have tryd very many combinations and this is some of them.

 

The weight of a complete rocket is 60 g and the fuel (Bp) weight 10g.

 

Slow BP

Nozzel 3mm 2,5mm core flyd slowly tp 0,7 m upp and then then the thrust was to low to continve and i fell back

Nozzel 2,5 mm, core 2,5 mm CATO

 

Fast BP

Nozzel 5mm, core 4mm, fly 5m and then lost all thrust

Nozzel 4,5mm, core 4, a really big bang.

 

What in hell is wrong???

 

/ Bug

Couple questions first, are they cored, or end burners? You start off saying they are end burners, but then go one in the examples and they all have cores. Either way, it sounds like your nozzle size is too small. I had the problem to start with. A nozzle too small will not give the rocket enough thrust, causing a slow take off and in some cases it gets pissed and just CATO's. If you haven't already, try a larger nozzle and see if that works.

The core is very short to have a place to put the fuse, is this wrong?

 

Smaller nozzel means more thurs, or is I´m wrong?

 

I mean that smaller nozzel will make more pressuer inside the motor and more pressuer make the BP to burn faster = more thrus

 

Big nozzel = less perssuer = less thrust.

 

And like you see in my post I have test the nozzel where the motor is on the limet to brake / cato.

 

/ Bug

[Karl]

Blaster Man :

 

I can see why you think the initial thrust spike of a D12 is enough to make the rocket go unstable. But with the added weight of a payload, It shouldn't do much more than a little weather-cock!

 

The E9 engines aren't really suited for carrying heavy payloads, but would look rather neat as a firework! With an almost 4 second burn time, I can imagine it going down well!

 

But you do know, all of this 'Rocket motors on stick' talk, breaks the NAR safety code