List Of Chemicals

[PyroMedia]

Can i please have a list of chemicals that a fairly new pyro should get?

I already Have

- Kno3

- Al, dark and bright

- Sulpher

- Charcoal

- Some rocket tooling.

[tentacles]

First, I'm pretty sure there is at least one thread covering this subject.

 

Now, second, we don't even know what you like/want to make. There are many here who would suggest (rightly so) that NO new pyro needs dark aluminum. The ones that don't suggest it are just keeping the thread tidy.

 

Many pyro chemicals are very application specific. What's the point in having sodium oxalate if you don't make glitters? Or having a bunch of salicylate when you make big ball shells (even for whistle burst, potassium benzoate is cheaper). Even Antimony Trisulfide has little use outside glitter comps, although it can be useful for dark relay and dark reports. If you don't make dragon eggs, why buy lead tetraoxide, or bismuth subcarbonate?

 

Have I successfully delivered the point that your question is FAR too vague, and also probably something that only you can answer?

Edited August 27, 2008 by tentacles

[psyco_1322]

Im going to contradict your statement tentacles. I think its just fine for a new pyro to have dark Al. He doesnt have that "other" chemical so it looks to being used correctly. He might need to make slow flash for boosting shells. I would hate to use bright Al for that, or anything else cause the stuffs just a mess. It could be used to make some glitter, D1 with german dark looks great. Radiant green 2 stars use german dark in place of magnalium.

 

I do agree your question is a little to wide. Tell us what you would like to make and/or what you plan on getting into and we can help out a bit. I see you have rocket tooling. What kind, size?

[PyroMedia]

Well, when i started this i wanted to see some recomendations for things to get for newbie stuff (rockets, gerbs, ect.)

 

But im just mainly looking for what to get in general. like common chemicals used in various comps.

 

also im not that new, maybe 4 months? but ive mainly just been reading so i dont end up without a hand and about the dark al, i ordered it when i was just starting (maybe a week in) and saw all these people doing cool stuff with Flash on YouTube, so im like cool ill go grab some al.

 

Then i stumble across this little bugger

 

 

http://members.shaw.ca/gryphon223/consequences.html

 

witch scared the shit out of me about flash, then i stumble upon totse, laugh and think their all retarded and finally land upon APC which further educates me not to make flash for another year or so

 

And thats my story.

 

I was also using the dark al in small ammounts in bp rockets

Edited August 27, 2008 by PyroMedia

[tentacles]

The problem is, the only common chemicals are oxidizers, fuels, chlorine donors, and binders. And which ones vary by composition. So in that line, getting some binders - I'd suggest getting some dextrin, SGRS, red gum, maybe CMC. Oxidizers, potassium nitrate, always best to have lots of that, and the perchlorates can be very useful, but not so much unless you're doing whistle or strobe rockets, or making shells or headers with stars.

 

If you want to make colored things (stars, or rocket delay, etc) then you will need strontium nitrate (red) barium nitrate (green) and some copper salts for blue. Barium nitrate is hard to ship legally. Most color star comps also call for some potassium perchlorate, and blues usually do best with ammonium perchlorate.

 

Fuels? Hexamine, red gum(in some cases a fuel), charcoal (Cowboy brand), metals, possibly some lactose, a benzoate for whistles, or salicylate, silicon... There is a long list of just different metals, mesh sizes, particle type. A bag, or a few briquettes of sticks and bear turds (aka Kingsford) will give your rockets great charcoal tails. (60-30-10 where the 30 is 50/50 kingsford/willow)

 

Chlorine donors. If you want one size fits all, probably Parlon. There's also PVC (not pipe), Saran (not the wrap), Dechlorane, Chlorowax, HCB (if you can find it!).

 

I'm sure it's all clear as mud now...

 

Just curious, did the dark al speed up the rocket much? I wouldn't expect it to give a tail, though it probably made the fire brighter/whiter. Dark Al + KNO3 + S is a formula for "slow" flash - not something I'd want to be ramming into a rocket casing, even in the wrong ratio.

Edited August 27, 2008 by tentacles

[PyroMedia]

The problem is, the only common chemicals are oxidizers, fuels, chlorine donors, and binders. And which ones vary by composition. So in that line, getting some binders - I'd suggest getting some dextrin, SGRS, red gum, maybe CMC. Oxidizers, potassium nitrate, always best to have lots of that, and the perchlorates can be very useful, but not so much unless you're doing whistle or strobe rockets, or making shells or headers with stars.

 

If you want to make colored things (stars, or rocket delay, etc) then you will need strontium nitrate (red) barium nitrate (green) and some copper salts for blue. Barium nitrate is hard to ship legally. Most color star comps also call for some potassium perchlorate, and blues usually do best with ammonium perchlorate.

 

Fuels? Hexamine, red gum(in some cases a fuel), charcoal (Cowboy brand), metals, possibly some lactose, a benzoate for whistles, or salicylate, silicon... There is a long list of just different metals, mesh sizes, particle type. A bag, or a few briquettes of sticks and bear turds (aka Kingsford) will give your rockets great charcoal tails. (60-30-10 where the 30 is 50/50 kingsford/willow)

 

Chlorine donors. If you want one size fits all, probably Parlon. There's also PVC (not pipe), Saran (not the wrap), Dechlorane, Chlorowax, HCB (if you can find it!).

 

I'm sure it's all clear as mud now...

 

Just curious, did the dark al speed up the rocket much? I wouldn't expect it to give a tail, though it probably made the fire brighter/whiter. Dark Al + KNO3 + S is a formula for "slow" flash - not something I'd want to be ramming into a rocket casing, even in the wrong ratio.

 

 

there was around 5% and yes, it did give a performance boost, (atleast it looked like it did) and the al was added right before it was pressed with my ghetto ass car jack press.

 

And that was just the kind of list i was looking for.

[Mumbles]

I'd believe it about the Al boosting the power of the rocket. You can even dust BP burst in just Dark Al and improve the power of the break.

 

Anyway, as it seems you are aware, BP chems are really the first things you need to get. From those three (four if you count dextrin), you can make most any device. After those I'd get some sort of atomised aluminum, and maybe some BaCO3 for glitters. After that you really need to decide where your interests lie.

 

If you're into rockets, some Ti, granular charcoals, whistle chemicals, and maybe some strobe chemicals may be in order.

 

For gerbes, fountains, and drivers the rocket chems will do sans the strobe. Additionally some color chemicals like Sr(NO3)2, SrCO3 Perchlorate, a chlorine donor, red gum, and MgAl will serve you well.

 

If you're into shells, chemicals for colors would be helpful. Perhaps the whistle chemicals too in order to help dial in breaks. Glitters are still one of my favorite effects, as well as being relatively easy and cheap to produce.

 

Red stars are fairly easy to produce, even with organic fuels. It may not be the richest darkest red possible, but it certainly gets the job done.

[PyroMedia]

Ok, well i jsut ordered a bunch of tubes and shells, anything else i should get?

 

1 1 Qty=50 3/4" ID x 3-1/2" long x 3/32" THICK Wall Tubes SILVER

3/4 X 3-1/2 silver 7.75 $ 7.75

 

1 1 Qty=12 3" plastic ball shells1/8" fuse

2-5/8" ball 4.95 $ 4.95

 

1 1 Qty=25 1" plastic ball shells 1/8" fuse

7/8" ball 3.95 $ 3.95

 

1 1 Qty=12 # 5 2" plastic can W/ 1/8" fuse lid

plastic can 4.75 $ 4.75

 

1 1 Qty=1 2" Moratr

2" mortar 3.99 $ 3.99

 

1 1 Qty=1 2" Moratr

2" mortar 3.99 $ 3.99

 

1 1 Qty=1 1" mortar

1" mortar 1.69 $ 1.69

 

1 1 Qty=1 1" mortar

1" mortar 1.69 $ 1.69

 

1 1 Qty=50 5/8" ID X 1-1/2" Long X 1/16" wall Red

5/8" X 1-1/2 Red 3.45 $ 3.45

 

1 1 Qty=50 1/4" ID x 2" long x 1/16" Wall Tubes RED

1/4" X 2" Red 2.95 $ 2.95

 

1 1 Qty=100 1/4" Paper plugs

1/4" plug 3.00 $ 3.00

 

1 1 Qty=100 5/8" Paper plugs

5/8" plug 3.00 $ 3.00

 

1 1 Qty=100 3/4" Paper plugs

3/4" Plug 3.25 $ 3.25

[oskarchem]

No I think you got it all, but if this was ordered from pyrocreations, keep in mind that the OD of the can shells is 2" and the ID of the 2" mortar is 2" so you will not be able to fire these shells from that mortar. you would probably need a 2-1/2" mortar for those shells

[PyroMedia]

oh. dang. ill find something though im sure.

[Mumbles]

The plastic can shells are 1 15/16" OD by the way. They should fit, but it will be snug, and you'll have to bottom fuse. The mortar will also have to be kept very clean.

 

You will have some serious troubles getting decent breaks out of plastic canisters without very hard breaks.

[PyroMedia]

their just cardboard mortars, ill just discard them when they get dirty.

[oskarchem]

The plastic can shells are 1 15/16" OD by the way. They should fit, but it will be snug, and you'll have to bottom fuse. The mortar will also have to be kept very clean.

 

You will have some serious troubles getting decent breaks out of plastic canisters without very hard breaks.

 

What gives?! I ordered some of those shells and mortars, and I cant get them in!

[mormanman]

Red stars are fairly easy to produce, even with organic fuels. It may not be the richest darkest red possible, but it certainly gets the job done.

Now I know all of you hate when I talk about this but don't flame me.

The is a red star comp that I found like just messing around and I use to use it as fountains. It is also the only comp I know of that is by Volume.

Road Flare 4

Dark Al 1

 

It makes a nice red and its easy to mix, no ball milling involve just throw them together and stir. I don't know a binder for it but I haven't tried any either.

[psyco_1322]

$4 for a single paper mortar is pretty expensive. An HDPE or plastic would be cheaper. I would suggest finding someone on the 4th that shoots a lot of shell and ask them If you can have the extra tubes. Since most people will only shoot out a few mortars there are amples of new one laying around. Get a few HDPE tubes and make a rack. They also have new fiberglass ones that are nice. Or go to pyrogear.net and they have good prices on HDPE mortars. If you want a 2" gun make sure you get them from the 1.3g link. They have some that they call 2" but are not quite 2" ID for smaller consumer shells.

 

I personally thought that order came from cannonfuse.com < they have really nice prices in bulk. If you want the cheapest plastic ball shells go to pyrocasings.com I know that cannonfuse tubes are spiral wound and if the ones you got are the same then they will not be very good for rockets but will work well for inserts.

 

For chems I would say try out firefox-fx.com get what you can from them, it may be limited but what you get should be rather fair priced. Then skylighter.com has a large selection of chems at a higher price. I wouldnt order much more than chemicals from them. If you plan to solvent weld the shells together they have a little solvent appplicator that is a god buy, it holds up to acetone and practically has a needle for a tip. If you plan to fiberglass tape your shells or need any paper for shells www.emgepaper.com has the best prices for tapes you can get. The 100lb fiberglass tape is good for shells, the 300lb is nice and thick and works good for salutes. If you want to press rockets then you should get New England Paper Tubes (NEPT) from http://hobbyhorse.com/pyro_tubes.shtml <best high quality paper tubes there is on the planet, they will outperform anything else you find. To go with them tubes Rich Wolter makes some very nice, quality tools and paper end disks, wolterpyrotools.com

[psyco_1322]

Now I know all of you hate when I talk about this but don't flame me.

The is a red star comp that I found like just messing around and I use to use it as fountains. It is also the only comp I know of that is by Volume.

Road Flare 4

Dark Al 1

 

It makes a nice red and its easy to mix, no ball milling involve just throw them together and stir. I don't know a binder for it but I haven't tried any either.

 

Lol, I also have a volumetric road flare red I found messing around back in the day. It used seived flare comp, to get the sawdust out. Makes chunky stars but they have nice and big red flames, would work better for a cheap red comet comp.

 

Flare comp - 1

Meal Powder - 1

Smokeless Powder - 3

Dextrin - 1/2

[mormanman]

But where do you get Smokeless Powder?

I can't buy smokeless my mom won't let me. Still its a cheap red.

[Mumbles]

Well good thing you guys are staying on topic otherwise I'd be getting unhappy.

[mormanman]

Well good thing you guys are staying on topic otherwise I'd be getting unhappy.

Are you being sarcastic or are you happy that we're not talking about flash?

It is Mumbles you know.

[PyroMedia]

Yes, talk of Where can i get smokeless powder? lets post comps! And im sure the admins don't mind flash discussion aslong as its not in a retarded manner. (AKA Salutes)

[oskarchem]

Humm.. I don't live in the US, but try a gun range or a hunting shop for smokeless. But be warned that this stuff is useless if you want to lift shells. You should get some Goex 2Fg.

[TheSidewinder]

Smokeless powder AS-IS has no uses in pyro, though it can be used to make decent NC lacquer.

 

Using commercial muzzleloading BP (Fg powders) for pyro lift and break gets real expensive real fast. If you only make a few small shells per month, though, it's perfectly good AND gives you consistency you might not get with homemade powder.

 

And for the OP's benefit: The "g" in Fg means glazed (or graphite). The powder is coated with graphite to make it free-flowing for use in muzzleloading weapons (Cannons, Rifles, Shotguns, Pistols, etc). When substituted for Fa powders, it's not a "number for number" ratio.

(IIRC, 2Fg is equivalent to 4Fa. Or have I got that backwards?)

 

Anyway, it looks like you have a good start on your chemical inventory. Find some decent formulas, then make a few fountains or rockets. Once you get good performance (and color if applicable), move on to small shells.

[PyroMedia]

Is this worth buying? i think their lieing about the 4200 mesh

 

http://cgi.ebay.ca/1-lb-Aluminum-Powder-42...1QQcmdZViewItem

[oskarchem]

It's impossible that it is really 4200MESH. 1000 mesh=1µ that would mean that this guy is offering aluminium for 10$ wich is at: +- 0.25µ. Maybe it's a typo, and he really means 420mesh?

[PyroMedia]

1000 mesh=1µ ? are you sure about that? i thought it was around 4500 mesh for 1µ