Views on Ground Salutes

[oskarchem]

The meaning of my post was just like Flying Fish understood it, it's not the lighting that I'm sceared of, because you can put a 10cm peice of visco before the QM, and have largley enough time to escape. I'm more afraid of the making, but I guess that this makes me be abit more careful.

[tentacles]

The problem I see with grounding straps is that you are effectively tying yourself to the table full of pyro. In a situation where you need to haul ass out, it could easily prove a fatal slowdown.

[Mumbles]

I actually know a couple of the guys in those pictures. The one with the severe hand burn, and the juvenile with the COB assisted leg piercing. That tends to really drive the point home. I know others who have had accidents as well.

 

I wont sit and preach, but do what you feel is safe. I tend to frown upon ground salutes. They bring undue attention and take no art or skill. Aerial salutes are only slightly better. Only when they are incorporated into shells as inserts and bottom shots do I really start to truely enjoy them.

 

I've said this before too, but only make as much flash as you need for one operation. That is how I feel the safest. I only have to make it once a day, and I never will have any left over. I still don't really feel newbies should be using flash anyway. Not that they're too inexperienced to make it or handle it, but that they're too inexperienced to respect it.

[Richtee]

I still don't really feel newbies should be using flash anyway. Not that they're too inexperienced to make it or handle it, but that they're too inexperienced to respect it.

 

Amen. A few grams here and there... next thing ya know it's 15 grams...then... As i'm not an HE user/producer I'm sure I really don't understand the potential of HE's, even if some who make them do. But I tell you what. I have NO DOUBT an ounce of flash within a yard or so will kill someone. Or at least make them wish they died.

 

All thrill seeking/adrenline producing concussions aside... This stuff is FAST and DANGEROUS. For some reason, I am more careful now than ever with it ;{)

 

The problem I see with grounding straps is that you are effectively tying yourself to the table full of pyro. In a situation where you need to haul ass out, it could easily prove a fatal slowdown.

I suggest THIN gauge wire? ;{)

[FrankRizzo]

Compliments of Donald J. Haarmann:

 

 

Safety Evaluation Tests of Personal Protective Equipment for Ordnance Operations

Glen Prichard August 1978

NWC TP 6008

ADA 058 987

 

[scanned and you know that that means!]

 

DISCUSSION

 

100% Cotton (Thin) Socks. Thin socks of 100% cotton registered the most

satisfactory readings. This occurred not only immediately after personnel put on the

socks, but for the entire 2-hour evaluation period. The requirement for socks of high

cotton content in ordnance operations with potential electrostatic hazards is validated

by the results of this test. Cotton is hygroscopic, and as such will readily absorb

moisture from the atmosphere or from the feet of personnel. Moisture Collected on the

feet of personnel is absorbed and transmitted through the sock to the inner sole of the

conductive shoe: The shoe then provides a path to ground to bleed off electrostatic

charge buildup.

 

Internal body resistance and built-in shoe resistance keep readings from reaching

unacceptably low values. Current NAVSEA explosive safety requirements allow a

minimum shoe reading of 25K ohms. Several 40K-, 50K-, and 60K-ohm readings were

registered during the cotton sock test; however, none approached minimum

acceptability.

 

One somewhat disturbing aspect associated with the 100% cotton (thin) socks was

the fact that 107o of the readings registered above the IM-ohm maximum immediately

after the socks were put on. For operations where the generation of' static would create

a hazard, regulations require socks of" high cotton content. No time element ;s

involved, yet the test data indicate that perhaps as long as 15 minutes may be needed

before maximum safety, through acceptable conductivity readings, can be achieved.

 

75-857. Cotton/25-15%, Nylon Socks. All-cotton socks have become increasingly

difficult to procure. Cotton socks typically have a reinforced heel and toe made of nylon.

The small percentage of nylon has generally not affected the hygroscopicity of the

cotton, and the test results in this report would appear to valid-ate this. After 15

minutes, all reading-, registered 0 to 500K ohms. The only difference between the

all-cotton (thin) socks and the cotton/nylon socks appeared to be in the readings

immediately after the socks were put on. Twenty-three percent of the personnel wearing

the cotton/nylon socks had readings greater than IM, as opposed to 10% for cotton

(thin) socks. Based upon the test results, 15 minutes would appear to be needed to

achieve maximum acceptable conductivity.

 

100% Cotton (Thick) Socks. Thick socks of 100% cotton revealed some

surprisingly unsatisfactory readings. In fact, 71%, of the personnel wearing this sock

type registered over IM ohms immediately upon donning them. Only 29% fell into the

acceptable range. It should be understood that the requirement for socks with high

cotton content is applicable to those of thin construction only. As stated before, cotton is

hygroscopic. However, permeation of moisture through thick socks takes longer than

through thin socks. As a consequence, acceptable conductivity readings take longer to

achieve. The test data seem to substantiate this. After 15 minutes, 71% of the readings

were in the 0- to 500K-ohm range and 297c were in the >500K-<1M range Fifteen

minutes appears to be the minimurn time to achieve acceptable conductivity. Thirty

minutes seems most appropriate.

 

100% Nylon and 75% Orlon/25% Nylon Socks. Both types of synthetic socks worn

by personnel registered entirely unsatisfactory readings. After 2 hours. 25%. of' the

personnel wearing 100% nylon socks registered above IM, ohms. Fifty percent of the

personnel wearing 75% Orlon/25'% nylon socks registered above IM ohms after the

2-hour test period, Synthetics do not absorb moisture readily. In addition, they provide

good insulative effects. Both of these aspects contribute to their ability to maintain an

electrical charge for extended time periods before bleed-off occurs. This could be

catastrophic in those operations where electrostatic discharge may initiate loose

explosives or pyrotechnic powder, or vapor-air mixtures within ignitable limits.

 

VARIABLES AFFECTING CONDUCTIVITY

 

Several of the sock types proved to be effective for the hazardous conditions found

in ordnance operations. However, many variables were found that affect the adequacy

of conductivity afforded by the various types of socks. Variables that merit consideration

are listed below under the general headings of shoe tester, weather conditions, shoe

conditions, work conditions, and individual differences. These variable-should not be

considered all-inclusive.

 

Shoe Tester. The shoe tester used in this particular test. the Safe-T-Ohm, has a

scale range of 0 to I M ohms. This range is highlighted green to indicate acceptability.

Above 1M ohms it is highlighted red to indicate unacceptability. However, in the red

region there is no scale and, as a consequence, there is no satisfactory method to

determine whether the sock readings are just slightly above acceptable conductivity or

infinitely above. It is only known that the reading is unacceptable, not the extent of the

unacceptability. There is. probably enough machine-error variability to make the shoe

tester readings near the red-green borderline region a concern.

 

Weather Conditions. Relative humidity must be controlled to obtain reliable

conductivity measurements over time. A high humidity may cause enough moisture on

the socks and feet of personnel to cause most, if not all, readings regardless of sock

content, to he within acceptable limits. A low humidity keep even thin cotton socks at

unacceptable conductivity levels. Hygroscopicity is the ability to absorb moisture. If

there is little moisture in '!w air, such as may be found in the desert winter months.

hygroscropic socks will experience difficulty in moisture absorption. Consequently,

readings may stay elevated for extended time periods.

 

In summary, cold versus warm weather conditions coupled with wet versus dry

cliniatic conditions are variables that must be considered and controlled when

,evaluations of this nature are performed. This is why daily checks are important in high

hazard areas (e.g., primary explosive and pyrotechnic operations), per NAVSEA

explosive regulations.

 

Shoe Conditions. Ideally, the conductivity of shoes should be determined before

socks are tested so that a baseline of data can be established. Shoes in good

condition may initially show a conductivity reading as low as 25K ohms. Likewise,

shoes in bad condition may lead to greater than 1M-ohm readings, even with 100%

(thin) cotton socks.

 

Dirt, grime, grease, and wax are just a few of the materials that may provide

sufficient insulative effects to prevent reliable and accurate conductivity readings,

unless they are removed from the soles of the conductive shoes.

 

WORK Conditions. Pedestrian traffic may be a crucial variable in evaluating sock

conductivity. Field work that involves a great deal of activity on the part of personnel

should lead to copious amounts of perspiration, and as such. adequate conductivity

measurements. Likewise, office work involving a good deal of sedentary activity, and

only !sporadic field work, may preclude perspiration buildup and thus raise most

readings; above acceptability, regardless of sock content.

 

Individual Differences. Some personnel may naturally perspire regardless of their

activity, while others who do active work may not perspire at all. Blood circulation plays

a major part, and of course, varies with different people. Test results would seem to

verify this; the same personnel generally showed higher readings on all types of

socks-especially in initial readings. In summary, individuals must know their

peculiarities to truly derive maximum safety through the use of socks and shoes.

 

SUMMARY OF SOCK TESTS

 

This section has described conductivity tests made to determine the relative

conductivity of various sock types that may be worn in ordnance operations and to

indicate to personnel the acceptability or unacceptability of such socks. Observations of

sock conductivity as a result of the tests, and conformance to current NAVSEA

explosives safety regulations indicate the following:

 

1. When conductive shoes are required to be worn, only lightweight socks of high

cotton content should be worn.

2. Even after donning lightweight (thin) socks of 100% cotton content, perhaps as

long as 15 minutes may be needed before adequate conductivity readings can be

achieved.

3. Seventy-five to 85 cotton socks, with some nylon reinforcement still meet the

requirement of high cotton content and appear to provide acceptable conductivity

readings after a 15-minute waiting period.

4. Thick 100% cotton socks do not appear to meet current NAVSEA conductivity

requirements, and test results seem to support this. Thirty minutes may be an

appropriate waiting period, after donning heavy cotton socks, before hazardous

operations should commence. This long waiting period would be economically

impractical.

5. Synthetic socks do not meet current conductivity requirements, and this is

reinforced by the data. They do not belong in ordnance operations where electrostatic

discharge is a concern.

6. Many variables, such as measuring equipment variability, weather, shoe

condition, work conditions, and individual body differences, affect sock conductivity. To

gain reliable information on actual sock conductivity, these variables need to be

controlled.

[Richtee]

100% Cotton (Thin) Socks.

Nothing like good sox!

[mormanman]

What about wool? Will that make static or no? I think it might but I love wool.

[flying fish]

Wool is probably a very bad idea. It will instantly tribocharge everything to hell and create conditions for electrostatic discharge, or just randomly start throwing lightning bolts out at your compositions (might be a *slight* exaggeration, but have you even crawled under a wool blanket in the dark during the dry season? Everything lights the hell up with static sparks). There is a reason why cotton (in certain forms more than others) is used exclusively in ESD sensitive situations (as stated above in the OCR'd document that FrankRizzo Posted...). Edited August 26, 2008 by flying fish

[Frozentech]

Wool is probably a very bad idea. It will instantly tribocharge everything to hell and create conditions for electrostatic discharge, or just randomly start throwing lightning bolts out at your compositions (might be a *slight* exaggeration, but have you even crawled under a wool blanket in the dark during the dry season? Everything lights the hell up with static sparks). There is a reason why cotton (in certain forms more than others) is used exclusively in ESD sensitive situations (as stated above in the OCR'd document that FrankRizzo Posted...).

 

Have you never heard the rule "COTTON ONLY" with regard to pyro fashions ?

 

I posted Bill Ofca's essay on flash safety in the Safety topic, take a look.

[Mumbles]

Living in Wisconsin, I do have a few pair of wool clothing. Seeing as how my dad has a set of Green Bay Packer tickets, I get one game a year, generally around christmas/new years. Yes, the tickets are that old. Whenever I put them on, I instantly start zapping everything. Static builds up so fast. Being in Texas, I see no need at all for wool though. Oh shit, not 60 degrees, freeeeeeeeezing.

 

I don't wear anything but cotton for firework making,

[mormanman]

Have you never heard the rule "COTTON ONLY" with regard to pyro fashions ?

 

I posted Bill Ofca's essay on flash safety in the Safety topic, take a look.

I read that on Pyrotechs website. I just for got about Cotton only.

Mumbles the wool keeps you feet dry and its not that hot. Since wool is tubular, unlike cotton, so it will change temperatures according to whats around it. My feet freeze but sweat like a fat girls ass reading a love note.

Thats why you don't weld with wool only cotton. Thats my two cents.

[TheSidewinder]

"My feet freeze but sweat like a fat girls ass reading a love note."

 

Ewww...... The visual of that is...... disturbing.

[Richtee]

"My feet freeze but sweat like a fat girls ass reading a love note."

 

Ewww...... The visual of that is...... disturbing.

Hence cotton panties. NOT wool!

[mormanman]

TSW, Wow. I laughed a lot at that. LOL. My friend said that once when we were skateboarding in South Carolina. Wow.

[Arqwat]

As noted in my intro a couple of months ago, I'm not really a pyro as much as a rocketeer.

But I do know about using grounding straps from working with various aircraft avionics components.

(ESD can damage chips on a board, even if the charge is so small you can't see a spark or feel a "zap").

As well I've had past experience loading military ordinance. (remember the Forestall incident off the coast of "Nam")?

 

Grounding straps (wrist straps) are anchored to the body on one end.

The other end is connected to the bench (or work area) with a clamp (about like one on a battery charger).

The connection points on the bench (where the clamp attaches) are usually copper tabs for maximum conductivity.

 

In short - if you walk (or run) away, the clamp will be pulled off of the bench with minimal resistance.

A strap should absolutely not "hard connect" you to a solid object - this could be hazardous in itself.

 

If you feel the need for a grounding strap, the use of thin guage wire could actually defeat the purpose.

The idea of a grounding strap is to provide the path of least resistance for a charge to follow.

The thinner the gauge = the more resistance. Too much resistance & the charge may follow a point of contact from the body.

 

The standard for grounding straps I've used is copper ribbon - usually about 1/4" - 1/2" wide.

Usually, the copper ribbon is used as a contact point for the wrist (attached with an elastic strap).

The ribbon connects to a braided copper wire (maybe 12 ga.) that clamps to the bench.

 

In the case of any emergency, all one has to do is walk away (or run like hell) as the situation calls for.

 

Cheers

[Richtee]

If you feel the need for a grounding strap, the use of thin guage wire could actually defeat the purpose.

The idea of a grounding strap is to provide the path of least resistance for a charge to follow.

The thinner the gauge = the more resistance. Too much resistance & the charge may follow a point of contact from the body.

Cheers

 

Yes, the clamp is the best way.. but as far as gauge size, the strap is not really for a huge current, obviously, but a bleeding off of any charge continuiously. Even conductive carbon fiber - as used in some anti-stat mats and chip holders... is of sufficient conductivity to effectivly drain static potentials to ground over a short run.

 

No need to ground yourself with jumper cables ;{)

[bogey1]

WOW. after seeing those pics i think im done with flash. its not worth it (to me) anyway. but i dont think i will be giving up making shells, i'll just be a little more careful and a lot more respectful.

[ST1DinOH]

ok so everyone is clear, noobs shouldn't make flash, but ground salutes can be great.

 

now that thats out of the way, what's it called when you hang flash in a bag from a hangmans gallows. i know there is a term for it but i can't for the life of me remember or find it in any of my books.

 

i attended a show a few years back where the guy did this and it was quite the attention getter.

 

i wasn't right there when they made it, but i was close enough to watch them and get the idea (they forced us all way back). they diapered the flash on newspaper, then simply folded the corners in to gather it in the middle. then they added a length of QM and created a ball of the flash inside the newspaper. the guy then just put that in a paper bag and hung it from a gallows looking contraption. an e-match was then added to the QM and when they hit that cue in the show i felt the concussion wave. highlight of the show TBH.

 

i think if done safely, and done for reasons other than blowing up toilets, ground salutes are a great effect.

 

definitely something i'd like to do one day in a show.

[Mumbles]

Gabe de morte.

[optimus]

"Game Mort" seems to be the most commonly used term, useful if you want to google it...

 

Supposed to mean 'dead head' in Italian.

[ST1DinOH]

thanks, that one has been bothering me. i kept thinking gerb something but that didn't make sense at all, it's clearly not a gerb of any kind.

[Richtee]

now that thats out of the way, what's it called when you hang flash in a bag from a hangmans gallows. i know there is a term for it but i can't for the life of me remember or find it in any of my books.

 

 

If interested, I can instruct you on how to tie an authentic "hangman's knot" ;{)

[ST1DinOH]

If interested, I can instruct you on how to tie an authentic "hangman's knot" ;{)

 

no need, boy scout here with his knot badge, thanks anyway.

[Richtee]

no need, boy scout here with his knot badge, thanks anyway.

That is the ONLY knot not taught in Boy scouts, sir. LOL!

[FrankRizzo]

Haha. Back in my Scouting days, a buddy and I were screwing around and made a noose once during a camp out. The scout leader saw it, and proceeded to chew us out not for making the knot, but instead for making it incorrectly. We didn't use the correct number of coils IIRC.