Nitro cellulose Lacquer

[Choscura]

this is an interesting cross section of knowledge. we have some people- like RUUUUUUN- who know nothing about the guns they're talking about but have shot several friends guns and so style themselves as experts (don't feel bad, i was this way once too), we have people (and thank you, you know who you are) who don't know and don't give a shit and are trying to keep us on topic- we have a few people who know a bit more than everybody else but are still stereotypical in the "AK sucks! m4 4 lyfe!!1" shit.

 

I could go into detail on this, but I won't. it's enough off topic already. suffice it to say, RUUUUN, you don't know enough so do your homework (any questions you have, feel free to ask, if I cant answer 'em, I can find somebody who can). trust me on this, this is part of my career (manufacturing various firearms). if I can't answer a question about this, I honestly need to know so that I can find the answer.

 

other than this, and besideds the 'fill a baloon with propane' and setting ping-pong balls on fire, how DO you mace nitrocellulose laquer?

 

I'm just going to throw this out there on just general knowledge about some plastics- is it possible to make this with polystyrene (styrafoam)? it seems like it would be, given that it's roughly the same chemical they use in ping pong balls (if not exactly, my memory is fuzzy on this count). and also, for dissolving, has anyone tried dissolving this with superglue and then using the resulting mix in any explosives? I remember quite distinctly that superglue melts polystyrene- but I never tried burning it or mixing it with any other chemicals, has anyone else done this?

[Swany]

Now its your turn to do homework, though I did enjoy the side-tangent regarding firearms.

 

Polystyrene and nitrocellulose are totally different. The only similarities I can think of is: 1) both are organic molecules 2) both are polymers.

 

Pingpong balls are a mixture of nitrocellulose and camphor. Styrafoam has no value in pyrotechics, although I read somewhere about it being a potential plastisizer in high explosives. It is not explosive. Anarchist Cookbook shit says napalm is styrafoam dissolved in gasoline, which is, bullshit. Superglue is cyanoacrylate, or something like that, and it would be a waste of money to use that to dissolve styrafoam when gasoline will do.

[RUUUUUN]

I make my Nitrocellulose by nitrating cotton. I don't know how other people do it...

 

Nitrocellulose and polystyrene are very different. Nitrocellulose is used in certain varnishes, Smokeless gun powder has Nitrocellulose in it at varying amounts depending upon the base. Polystyrene is rather useless in pyrotechnics, The napalm described upon "the anarchists crapbook" and other such places doesn't burn very well, is extremely messy, and is VERY VERY kewlish.

 

I do own rifles and have shot plenty of my own rifles, but I am more interested in the ballistics of the bullet... like approximately how much energy will a .22-250 180 grain varmint round moving at approximately 3650 FPS expend upon a human beings chest, at 500 yards (almost a sniper shot...)

 

 

Oh, and an 8" group at 200 yards is very, very, crappy.... try under 1 inch at 300 yards and you have a good rifle(effectively one hole with a 5 shot group, albiet a rather large hole).

[Choscura]

thanks for the input Swany, do you have a site where I can get more info on the attributes of different types of plastics like this?

 

also RUUUN- ballistics is best left to experts, or at least people legally old enough to own a rifle. I'd advise you give your dad his guns back and stop trying to be a gun expert because of your counterstrike experience.

[RUUUUUN]

I have never played counter strike, and I am old enough to legally own a rifle. How do you know I am not an expert? Such as doing running start in school (college classes in high school and taking physics), and taking physics classes hmmm???

[Choscura]

I have never played counter strike, and I am old enough to legally own a rifle. How do you know I am not an expert? Such as doing running start in school (college classes in high school and taking physics), and taking physics classes hmmm???

because of the information you've listed, and the credentials you're trying to pass off- in addition to your (lack of?) vocabulary and your constant desire to test everything I say on your bulshit-o-meter. up until a few months ago, I dealt with all the guns mentioned here on a near-daily basis. and by dealt with, I mean shot, disassembled, repaired, and in some cases modified. you, however, take pride in having been close to one gun (your dad's old g3) that you've never shot, and everything else is just hypothetical nonsense that I've got reason to believe you know nothing about.

 

anyway, back on topic. this is as close to a flame war as I like to come.

[RUUUUUN]

I got yelled at on the old forum because my vocular cogitations were to gargantuan, taking that into consideration I have been keeping my words small so people with very closed minds and extraneous vocabularies *COUGH* don't get confused.

 

What makes you think that I have never shot? I have been near several thousand guns, and taken a apart a few. Nothing I said was hypothetical nonsense, it makes perfect sense, and is a very real possibility in my life.

 

Anywho, I nitrated 10.5 grams of Cotton a few days ago, and in order to neutralize I had to submerge it under a Bicarb solution for about 2 days, My other batches didn't take nearly as long to neutralize, I just ran about 1 gallon of water through and then about 1 gallon of bicarb solution and then 1 more gallon of water, I did that to this one and it was still acidic, so I did it again, and it was still acidic, so I submerged it in 1 gallon of bicarb solution for 2 days, and now it is neutral. Anyone else had this happen? I believe I am going to coat some more fuse with some of this batch...

[Choscura]

Dude, unless you get real AK ammo the AK sucks, American AK ammo is only .223 and the bore of an AK is ~.226 so the bullet wobbles alot on the way out and the gun is HORRIBLY inaccurate. You either need to get Russian AK ammo(expensive) or ditch the whole AK thing. If you want to get a good submachine gun buy and MP5 PDW, HK, M-4, something that is available in your country and is reasonably accurate.

 

I am not saying that AK's aren't very nice LOOKING but they are pretty useless when it comes to practical application.

 

Filling a balloon with propane gas and shooting it isn't Pyro it is K3wlish. Want to impress your girlfriend? Get a decent rifle and show her how well you can group it(very hard, you will agree if you have ever shot a fully automatic weapon and tried to hold it onto something and didn't come from Spray and Pray school.) Don't just spray ammunition over the horizon, and it Isn't smart to mix booze and weapons.

But since alot of girls I know don't know a thing about rifles or grouping or anything of that sort its kind of a waste of time for me...

 

AK's are not acccurate, and their rate of fire is rather slow (400RPM), So the only reasons anyone would by them is cheap, and they like they way it looks.

 

7.62 is ~.308 in diameter, the relative size/weight of the actual bullet is not what was under discussion. An M16 shoots pretty much a .22 LR, in Diameter, round (.223 in, 5.56 mm) but at a much higher velocity and there for much more energy, it is also longer and heavier.

 

I got the HK 91A2 from me dad and he said it was a collector's Item, So I haven't put any rounds through it, there no accessories, and it has iron sights.

 

Oh, and an 8" group at 200 yards is very, very, crappy.... try under 1 inch at 300 yards and you have a good rifle(effectively one hole with a 5 shot group, albiet a rather large hole).

 

I have never played counter strike, and I am old enough to legally own a rifle. How do you know I am not an expert? Such as doing running start in school (college classes in high school and taking physics), and taking physics classes hmmm???

all of this points to a lack of knowledge- or knowledge gained since this stupid argument began. therefore, I call bullshit on you: all summary gun-fact responses will be ignored.

 

cheers on the NC laquer though.

[Mumbles]

You didn't get yelled at on the old forum for using big words. You got yelled at for being a stupid ass. You were trying to use big words, of which you more than likely used a thesaurus to find, to try to make other people look dumb. Everytime you got in an arguement, you would try to use big words, and just made yourself look stupid. You tried harder to use impressive words, than actually make a valid attempt at a logical counter arguement.

 

I hate to break this to you, but taking college classes in high school is not shit. It also CERTAINLY does not make you an expert in anything. Intro level courses, which you are taking if you are in HS, are no different than the high school courses. The only difference is they don't hold your hand through everything, nor make you do busy work. The topics are no more advanced than in high school.

 

If you had to use 4 gallons of liquid and it took you days to neutralise 10.5g of NC.....well I don't think I need to expound anymore on your claims of being some sort of super genius.

 

Anyway, keep this on topic of NC Lacquer. I am serious about this. I'm not going to dick around with all this off topic shit.

[mormanman]

Would this stuff work nitrocellulose lacquer for guitar

 

If that link doesn't work just put this into the address bar:

http://cgi.ebay.com/A-QUICK-NITROCELLULOSE...1QQcmdZViewItem

[deadman]

It is too hard to tell from the information that has (not) been given. They don't even offer a true picture of the product. Be careful of e-Bay. I am sure ping pong balls and acetone are going to work just fine for you. I actually am planning on using Hodgon H870 spherical smokeless powder for mine. Just to find a real use for it.

[hst45]

I do own rifles and have shot plenty of my own rifles, but I am more interested in the ballistics of the bullet... like approximately how much energy will a .22-250 180 grain varmint round

I hate to pile on, but there is no 180 grain .22 caliber bullet. The average is 50 to 55 grain. A 180 grain bullet would be about 1-1/2" long.

[Mumbles]

NC laquer is sold as a nitrate dope in RC airplanes. 10% is what is specifically sold by SIG. Not sure about other companies. Runs around $12 a quart, or $7 a pint.

[mormanman]

NC laquer is sold as a nitrate dope in RC airplanes. 10% is what is specifically sold by SIG. Not sure about other companies. Runs around $12 a quart, or $7 a pint.

So is that like the RC airplane fuel because NC laquer is a type of wood stainer (I thought)..correct me if I'm wrong or just don't reply if these answers are yes.

 

Thanks

[delta_echo]

I have tried using guitar lacquer with very poor results in dragon eggs. The eggs dry somewhat rubbery, but break apart rather easily. While they do snap like they should, you cannot use them for anything requiring a charge. Thus, mines, shells, and the like just seem to blow them apart.

 

 

On another note, has anyone successfully used NC ping-pong lacquer for dragon eggs? Mine pop just fine, dry harder than the guitar lacquer, but still break apart in shells and mines.

[Mumbles]

No, I don't believe it's a fuel. It would really gum up engines. For a fuel they use Nitromethane in methanol with castor oil I do believe.

 

The RC plane product is used as a coating on the wings and body and such.

[hst45]

The RC plane product is used as a coating on the wings and body and such.

i believe that's right. If it's what i think you're talking about, we used to call it "airplane dope." We painted it on a fabric called silkspan which was stretched and glued over a balsawood frame, and it dried to a hard, lightweight coating.

[TheSidewinder]

"Airplane Dope" is/was also called Butyrate Dope. I've used it in the past, and it's a right pain in the ass.

 

I've seen NC also called Butyrate (Firefox website), but *IS* this the same stuff? Is Butyrate Dope actually just NC? Or is it Cellulose Acetate, the stuff that newer ping pong balls are made out of?

 

Whatever it is, it *IS* highly inflammable, with a nicely toxic and carcinogenic VOC carrier besides.

 

Ah, the good old days where we could poison ourselves to our heart's content....

 

M

[Mumbles]

If it's flammable it's NC. Like I said, the stuff from SIG manufacturing is definatly NC. I know a guy who has a contact at SIG who checked specifically for him.

[h0lx]

Just noting, maybe someone might find this useful.

When I require NC laquer, I just mix approximately same volumes of H2SO4 and 58% HNO3, throw in a big amount of cotton, when the acids reach room temp and let the thing stay for 1-3 days, then wash. This makes OK Laquer, which burns rather shitty compared to high nitrated NC, but better than ping-pong balls.

[mormanman]

Well ok...and thats the stuff Nitrocellulose lacquer or is it Nitro cellulose that they use to make flashpaper or are that one in the same. This is just alittle hard to beleive; I read that Nitrocellulose is how that make flashpaper so don't get mad I'm just making sure, I don't like dieing and I don't like to waste money.

 

 

 

Thanks

[Xenodius]

Be careful with that stuff, I had a NC/Acetone mix ignite from a lightbulb, thankfully the vapor fireball didn't really do anything, and I got the lid back on the Laquer before the container melted... Do stuff with it outside, or with very good ventilation.

 

I was a sort of a moron on that point

[Frozentech]

Be careful with that stuff, I had a NC/Acetone mix ignite from a lightbulb, thankfully the vapor fireball didn't really do anything, and I got the lid back on the Laquer before the container melted... Do stuff with it outside, or with very good ventilation.

 

I was a sort of a moron on that point

You were exceedingly lucky. I've become somewhat of an acetone paranoic (sp?) I've heard a few stories of disasters and near disasters from pyro fires started by acetone fumes catching. A candle blown out 45 minutes prior, static, and now a light bulb have all flashed acetone vapors. I can only recommend it's use outdoors.

 

Imagine the result, if your NC/acetone mix was freshly dipped on the bottom of some crossettes to prime them with BP, when that "vapor fireball" happened ? ( actual case like that caused serious burns, 10,000 Euros damage to the room, and eviction of the pyro - luckily no criminal charges )

[TheSidewinder]

So, the SIG product is NC!?!?

 

I thought it was Cellulose Acetate. Huh.... learn something new every day, I guess. But, I should have figured it was since it burns as well once dry, as it does in solution.

 

Cellulose Acetate doesn't burn very well by itself, does it? Compared to NC, I mean. I have some CA powder, I'm just too lazy to go and try it.

 

M

[Pyro55]

I buy my NC lacquer at True Value hardware. It's only 10 bucks a qt. and a lot easier than messing with the ping pong balls.

The brand is Watco,

 

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u166/mortarfire/watco.jpg