Nitro cellulose Lacquer

[Caleb51]

Hello. I ran across this site http://petelin.gozdis.si/~jakal/E-matches.htm and saw that if you soak 2 ping pong balls in acetone, they will dissolve, making nitro cellulose. I thought NC was what is on flash paper, and flash cotton. Does this work? How much acetone is in paint thinner? Thanks Edited April 17, 2006 by Mumbles

[Pretty green flame]

Ping Pong balls are nitro cellulose but they aren't highly nitrated so they just burn instead of going poof. And ping pong balls disolved in acetone maked a crude NC lacquer which is used as a binder.

[Frozentech]

Hello. I ran across this site http://petelin.gozdis.si/~jakal/E-matches.htm and saw that if you soak 2 ping pong balls in acetone, they will dissolve, making nitro cellulose. I thought NC was what is on flash paper, and flash cotton. Does this work? How much acetone is in paint thinner? Thanks

Like PGF says, the NC in pingpong balls is not nitrated enough to be highly flammable, but it does make a good binder for certain compositions.

 

There may be no acetone at all in paint thinner. There are many different formulations of paint thinner. However, most hardware stores sell acetone in the same row as the paint thinner.

[RUUUUUN]

Are you Sure it isn't Highly Nitrated? Ping Pong balls are Celluloid which is Nitrocellulose and Camphor at 60/40 I believe. Isn't the Camphor in it to slow down the burn rate? Incase some moron lit one of them and the whole thing went POP, he might get burned or, God Forbid, it might EXPLODE sending deadly chunks of AIR in ALL directions!!!! He may sue the company. Bloody soccer moms and democrats.

 

In the paint thinner section ot the hardware store there should be several paint thinners and one should be 100% acetone.

[Rogue Chemist]

It is about 10.5% N for the NC in ping pong balls. Really good NC is about 14% N, but that requires conditions like 99% HNO3/Acetic anhydride. Best with mixed acids is about 13.5%N

[Caleb51]

Wow, you guys talking like that just shows me how truly un experienced I really am. Lighting ping pong balls is so cool though. It makes a big flame. Edited April 17, 2006 by Caleb51

[Choscura]

.........Lighting ping pong balls is so cool though. It makes a big flame........

I'm going to share with you one of my favorite things to do for a 'big flame'.

 

you take a bunch of baloons. you fill half of them up with helium.

 

you fill the other half of them up with propane.

 

go to a gun store, ask if they have an tracer ammo. when i lived in the states, they usually did, or if they didn't, they could get it relatively cheap.

 

anyway, get your gun (you do have one, right? if not, buy one. I recommend an AK if you've never used a gun before, it's stupid-proof), get your tracer ammo, and take both out to the middle of nowhere with your propane filled baloons. string them around a field or something (best time of day is about sundown), and then start unloading at the baloons. it's like watching exploding flowers when a tracer round goes through one of those babies, and it's very beautiful. if you're the romantic sort, bring a girlfriend. if you're not the romantic sort, bring a girlfriend anyway, it's good for you.

 

nothing says "I'm a redneck" quite like leaning back against the pickup with an AK in hand and smiling at her with both teeth and saying "this ones for you, baby" before you unload in the general direction of the baloons with one and and sip your beer with the other.

[joe609]

It's a liitle bit excesive going out and buying a rifle to make some fireballs.

[Givat]

you take a bunch of baloons. you fill half of them up with helium.

 

you fill the other half of them up with propane.

Why use helium? you depart your ballon to fly high and only then shot them?

[weknowpyro]

The whole idea is stupid anyway. i would think most people would be past the age of playing with ping pong balls and balloons.

[Choscura]

i never thought I'd see the day when setting things on fire was discouraged. and the buying the gun bit is just recommended, they're damn good fun and thats where I first smelled the smoke, if you will. regular shooter slang for going out and shooting random objects (not hunting, not target practice, just shooting) is to go 'burn some powder'.

 

speaking of which, tracer ammo is fun, generally legal, and with the knowledge I've seen on this site, easy to make. I'm not saying do anything illegal- hell no I'm not- I'm just saying this is an aspect of pyrotechnics a lot of you seem to be overlooking.

[joe609]

Filling a balloon with helium and propane and then shooting it, fun as it may be is hardly pyrotechnics.

[RUUUUUN]

Dude, unless you get real AK ammo the AK sucks, American AK ammo is only .223 and the bore of an AK is ~.226 so the bullet wobbles alot on the way out and the gun is HORRIBLY inaccurate. You either need to get Russian AK ammo(expensive) or ditch the whole AK thing. If you want to get a good submachine gun buy and MP5 PDW, HK, M-4, something that is available in your country and is reasonably accurate.

 

I am not saying that AK's aren't very nice LOOKING but they are pretty useless when it comes to practical application.

 

Filling a balloon with propane gas and shooting it isn't Pyro it is K3wlish. Want to impress your girlfriend? Get a decent rifle and show her how well you can group it(very hard, you will agree if you have ever shot a fully automatic weapon and tried to hold it onto something and didn't come from Spray and Pray school.) Don't just spray ammunition over the horizon, and it Isn't smart to mix booze and weapons.

But since alot of girls I know don't know a thing about rifles or grouping or anything of that sort its kind of a waste of time for me...

 

Moving onto the NC laquer part:

 

One thing I dont like about NC laquer coating on fuse is that sometimes it will catch fire and burn on the outside and the fuse won't actually ignite, although it is nice to have water-proof fuse.

[FrankRizzo]

Dude, unless you get real AK ammo the AK sucks, American AK ammo is only .223 and the bore of an AK is ~.226 so the bullet wobbles alot on the way out and the gun is HORRIBLY inaccurate. You either need to get Russian AK ammo(expensive) or ditch the whole AK thing. If you want to get a good submachine gun buy and MP5 PDW, HK, M-4, something that is available in your country and is reasonably accurate.

 

I believe he's referring to the AK-47, which is usually chambered in 7.62x39. The rarer AK-74 is chambered in 5.54x39 which is indeed close to Winchester .223. Both 7.62 and 5.54 NATO rounds are available at any decent sporting goods store here in the US.

[Choscura]

Dude, unless you get real AK ammo the AK sucks, American AK ammo is only .223 and the bore of an AK is ~.226 so the bullet wobbles alot on the way out and the gun is HORRIBLY inaccurate. You either need to get Russian AK ammo(expensive) or ditch the whole AK thing. If you want to get a good submachine gun buy and MP5 PDW, HK, M-4, something that is available in your country and is reasonably accurate.

 

I am not saying that AK's aren't very nice LOOKING but they are pretty useless when it comes to practical application.

 

Filling a balloon with propane gas and shooting it isn't Pyro it is K3wlish. Want to impress your girlfriend? Get a decent rifle and show her how well you can group it(very hard, you will agree if you have ever shot a fully automatic weapon and tried to hold it onto something and didn't come from Spray and Pray school.) Don't just spray ammunition over the horizon, and it Isn't smart to mix booze and weapons.

But since alot of girls I know don't know a thing about rifles or grouping or anything of that sort its kind of a waste of time for me...

 

Moving onto the NC laquer part:

 

One thing I dont like about NC laquer coating on fuse is that sometimes it will catch fire and burn on the outside and the fuse won't actually ignite, although it is nice to have water-proof fuse.

I have never laughed so hard as when I read this.

 

the bore of an ak (in 7.62x39 russian) is .3 inches, almost exactly. as opposed to .226- which is the bore diameter on some of the less- than-perfectly made AR-15's, which shoot, btw, .223 ammunition.

 

russian ammo is among the cheapest in the world, because instedad of using brass (expensive), they use steel cases and steel core bullets (usually)- much cheaper to make. it's shipped everywhere, even here. there is no shortage of it. there is no restrictions for a properly licensed importer and dealer to import as much as he likes to his store.

 

I also... oh god, this is so funny... I also can't help but laugh when you say I should get an mp5 pdw- the least successful MP5 variant, how you suggest I should get an HK gun (HK is a company. they make such well known guns as the g-3, the g-36, the mp-5, and the psg-1) or an m-4- which is a piece of shit tolerated only because of the light weight and small size it has, which is useful for situations such as going through a door you've just breached. so there you go- you've suggested that I buy one of two bad guns, or that I buy a gun COMPANY.

 

another good one- I like how you compliment the AK, one of the ugliest guns ever made, for how 'nice looking' it is.

 

the filling a baloon with propane isn't supposed to be pyro- it's supposed to be fun.

 

I have 2 ex girlfriends who would probably kick your ass for saying that they don't know anything about guns. they could, too.

 

last but not least, I love how you make the assertion that anybody can go out and buy any of the weapons you mentioned without having a CLASS 2 OR A CLASS 3 FUCKING LICENSE WHICH IN MOST STATES YOU MUST BE OVER 25, CCW CERTIFIED, BACKGROUND CHECKED and SEVERELY hassled by the ATF to buy- if you can afford the 5,000 minimum price tag to start with! automatic weapons are banned from being imported or made in the USA since 1986!!!!!

 

 

now: everything you say has been disregarded and you have been shown to be an irresponsible retard when it comes to one dangerous aspect of life. why the hell should we pay any attention to anything else you have to say?

[joker5]

you got some good points there. i like to shoot guns as well as mortars. by the way, most pros call their mortars GUNS. oh, i use the ping pong prime on my chinese 1/8 inch fuse for all my aerial shells delay and never had a dud.

[RUUUUUN]

I am sorry I had my info mixed up, It is a .308 round.

 

I know H&K is a company, and I know they make decently accurate and reliable weaponry. (I have an HK 91-A2)

 

AK's are not acccurate, and their rate of fire is rather slow (400RPM), So the only reasons anyone would by them is cheap, and they like they way it looks.

 

Launching helium balloons with propane balloons strapped to em 500 feet or so up and then shooting .308 rounds at them is extremely unsafe, stupid, and kewlish it has nothing to do with pyrotechnics, and its only fun if you are an idiot who doesn't have safety in mind. .308 rounds go over 2 lateral miles if launched at a 45degree angle and there is nothing to impede its trajectory, and you DON'T know whats going to be over the horizon.

[Boomer]

I dont know shit about guns, but what does .308 have to do with 7.62 (or 30-06 for that matter)?

 

How fast is it coming down after two miles? 10% muzzle speed? 1% kinetic energy? And over the horizon there is likely desert or else you could not do it there.

[Choscura]

::mutters:: un-fucking-believable.

 

southpark reference: I feel like stan explaining reality to cartman after cartman has made some assertion that he pulled out of his ass.

 

a 7.62x39 russian cartridge is NOT a .308 round (do your homework if you want to sound like an expert). the case alone for the .308 (winchester) round is nearly twice as long as the case for a 7.62 russian cartridge- to say nothing of the length with the bullet in.

 

ak's are as accurate as you need them to be - thats about 8-inch groups at 200 yards. exactly what you need for combat, and about as good as most soldiers are capable of shooting at that range under stress (key part- under stress) anyway. an AR-variant (such as the m-16) is more accurate (not the m-4, which is, again, a piece of shit), but it has no stopping power until the second or third bullet. the first shot you hit somebody with an ak with (not an opening to another of your brainless attacks on accuracy, dipshit!), they go down- usually permanently. also the ak is reliable- so reliable, in fact, that after ten years out in the middle of nowhere, buried in the ground, you can dig it up, run some oil through the barrel and over the bolt, and the gun will still fire.

 

try that with an AR variant and you'll be selling an expensive piece of scrap steel and aluminum to the junkyard.

 

just out of curiousity, how and where did you purchase an hk-91 (with the added monicker of A2), since you're obviously a civilian and quite probably still in high school? how much did it cost, what kind of ammo does it shoot (theres hundreds of types to change your mind about, but for the sake of argument, pick one and stick with it), what modifications have you done to it, do you have any optics systems on it, etc.

[mr.pyro]

Horribly off topic... Just a random NC question, Would it be possible to dissolve the ping pong balls in acetone and crash to water to obtain the NC and then nitrate it again to get a better quality of NC?

Then again if you have the acid bath why not just make normal NC? Im just wondering if the method I said is possible.

[Douchermann]

I would assume it is possible. No reason not to try.

[RUUUUUN]

7.62 is ~.308 in diameter, the relative size/weight of the actual bullet is not what was under discussion. An M16 shoots pretty much a .22 LR, in Diameter, round (.223 in, 5.56 mm) but at a much higher velocity and there for much more energy, it is also longer and heavier.

 

Boomer: If you drop a 200 grain (~13 gram) steel ball bearing off of the Empire State building will it or will it not do severe damage to a persons head, if it hits perpendicular to the head? A bullet will still be moving pretty fast after traveling over one vertical mile it would do quite a number to your Head/stomache/any-other-vital-area.

 

I got the HK 91A2 from me dad and he said it was a collector's Item, So I haven't put any rounds through it, there no accessories, and it has iron sights.

 

I zeroed me buds .22 LR today that was fun, got to waste his ammo at a target just to sight it in

[PyroJoe]

Sorry this is getting off topic but I just watched a mythbusters episode on the falling bullet myth. If the bullet is shot at an angle it can still easily kill someone several miles away. It has happened on a few accounts, but if you shoot a bullet straight up into the air it will fall to earth at its terminal velocity. A 9mm bullet will hit terminal velocity at around 400 feet of falling, so once past 400 feet it does not matter how much further it will fall. It will NOT kill you.

 

I do agree that it would probably leave a good bruise on your head or a welt on your arm if it did hit you, but it won't kill you or do "severe" damage to your head. Another thing is the bullet is spinning all over the place so it won't have a point to easily puncture skin. Mythbusters figured the terminal velocity of a 9mm bullet was 100mph though, which is around 148 feet per second, which is pretty close to the speed of a .228 round as well.

[Caleb51]

I also saw that episode. This is so off topic now. Mumbles, lock this.

[Kilo_G]

If I remember correctly a H&K 91 A-2 is a 7.62x51 (aka .308), semi automatic also. It is not as accurate as a PSG-1 (nor worth nearly the same amount of money). The gun itself is worth between $2,000 and $3,000 depending on accessories, optics and condition. Real H&K rifles are hard to come by, since certain models (such as 90's series rifles) have been banned for import, can't member if they still are but I think they still are.

 

Personally, overall I think H&K's a junk. They are made from stamped sheet metal. Springfield makes an H&K knock off gun called a SAR 8, it has a milled receiver. Other than the big thud from the .308 it's eh (the SAR 8's are made on H&K in this country by springfield).

 

And by the way, if I was in the battlefield, I'd rather have an M-4 with a Trijicon, Aimpoint Comp M3/thermal sight or just plain iron sights than an AK with iron sights. M-4 is not a junk gun and AK's will shoot longer than you will live.