Making Magnalium.

[xetap]

I used clay/kitty litter and noticed no ill effects with my material I rendered from the melt, although I wire brushed all I could of the kitty litter/slag off . I would love to read/learn about the effects of the sodium ion, any links available to read? I hate to use my charcoal but looks like I might if this is true.

One way around this is to get some lump wood BBQ charcoal made from mesquite for example.

 

Render this into a powder and use it as you would the kitty litter. The mesquite isn't all that good for BP, but works fine for insulating the magnalium.

[50AE]

My father gave me a metal bucket from a chimney or something, it has a hole at the bottom to intake air.

It works great for making charcoal and I think it could work for MgAl, but I have to make myself an air pump to make the fire hotter.

At normal air intake, the charcoal container becomes red hot at the bottom.

When I tried to pump some air using a hot air gun, the fire was so hot I couldn't stay near the bucket. Its whole bottom became red hot and the charcoal container was red as well. Finally I inserted aluminium and I succesfully melted a little of it.

But I can't pump air with the hot air gun all the time, so I have to build the pump.

Edited January 29, 2010 by 50AE

[gordohigh]

Be careful, you don't want the fire too hot or the magnesium will catch fire during the process. Melting the alu slowly is a good thing, and once you melt it the magnesium will melt faster than the aluminum did. If you get the vessle too hot and the Mg catches fire it could burn out of control, ruining the whole batch and possibly causing other problems, like maybe injuring yourself in a panic trying to put it out.

 

My father gave me a metal bucket from a chimney or something, it has a hole at the bottom to intake air.

It works great for making charcoal and I think it could work for MgAl, but I have to make myself an air pump to make the fire hotter.

At normal air intake, the charcoal container becomes red hot at the bottom.

When I tried to pump some air using a hot air gun, the fire was so hot I couldn't stay near the bucket. Its whole bottom became red hot and the charcoal container was red as well. Finally I inserted aluminium and I succesfully melted a little of it.

But I can't pump air with the hot air gun all the time, so I have to build the pump.

 

On another note, I ball milled some of my MgAl last night and using some of the fine grains rendered from breaking it up, I was able to mill a nice little batch of fine powder, 250~300 mesh in an hour and a half. I could have easily milled it further fairly fast it seemed but wanted to use this for some glitter comp and besides, I have a deep respect for this stuff and don't think I will ever mill it too fine. I used my new SS rod media that I just made recently and it did a wonderful job.

[FrankRizzo]

For those of you who learn better from watching rather than reading, this gentleman on YouTube illustrates the process. Note that bean tins are not the best crucible, as then tend to burn through if too much heat is applied before the aluminum begins melting.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4ZJcjpc0Dg

[50AE]

To avoid burning magnesium, one pyro smashes the top of the container to almost close it. He adds the magnesium and aluminium together, then he waits for them to melt. He shakes the container to mix the molten metals, then he lets them to cool. He finally breaks the container and takes out the ready MgAl.

[Bonny]

I used clay/kitty litter and noticed no ill effects with my material I rendered from the melt, although I wire brushed all I could of the kitty litter/slag off . I would love to read/learn about the effects of the sodium ion, any links available to read? I hate to use my charcoal but looks like I might if this is true.

 

 

Pretty late reply, but you should save all the slag you brush off...within reason (don't save the obvious clay crap)

It works great in fountains and even added to comets. Worst case, save it to toss into the campfire.

[rocket]

For those of you who learn better from watching rather than reading, this gentleman on YouTube illustrates the process. Note that bean tins are not the best crucible, as then tend to burn through if too much heat is applied before the aluminum begins melting.

 

I knew making that video would come in handy for someone. I had nothing but trouble with tin cans 9/10 but that was the time it worked, after a bit of trial and error you can get them to work. Would get a better crucible but haven’t made any since that melt.

[Ventsi]

What is the minimum for a batch of MgAl? I mean where most of it doesn't get oxidized and actually worth the effort? I'm really looking into making some and don't want to screw up with a big batch my first time.

So what is it, a pound, half a pound?

[andyboy]

First time I did a small batch of about 200 grams.

[Bonny]

What is the minimum for a batch of MgAl? I mean where most of it doesn't get oxidized and actually worth the effort? I'm really looking into making some and don't want to screw up with a big batch my first time.

So what is it, a pound, half a pound?

 

 

To be worth the effort, I'd say a few hundred grams at least. Once I get all set up, I usually do a few melts of 300-400g at a time. It depends what sort of set up you have. I do mine in a friend's gas forging oven and am limited due to the low height of the chamber.

[gordohigh]

I did a pound both times I made it and it was very managable. I was a little nervous after reading about the mag possibly catching fire but if you are well prepared there should be no problems. Once the alu has all melted, the mag melts quite quickly just inserting a piece at a time and as soon as the last piece is fully melted and stirred good it's time to sprinkle the charcoal or whatever you're using on, and remove from the heat. Both times I did this I lowered the bottom half of my SS container in water to cool quickly.

 

I had the following on hand.

 

Eye protection

welders gloves

bucket of dry sand

milled kitty litter

small bucket half filled with water, to cool when done

stainless steel stirring rod

stainless steel tapered milk shake style cup

shovel for the sand if needed

charcoal chimney and charcoal (keep a little extra charcoal to add as needed)

a lid for the ss can

a pair of large channel locks to remove the can

a weighed out amount of mag and alu with about 10% more mag

 

Just make sure to allow enough time to get it done, it took me about an hour and a half total and a good part of that was getting hot enough to melt the alu. Once the alu melts it goes pretty quick.

 

When I saw little micro fires burning on the surface I stirred the mix quickly and kept adding pieces of mag untilll it was all melted.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

This MgAl manufacture really caught my attention, but there´s one snag (unless you manage to get scrap Mg from next door): the high prize of pure Mg. I didn´t manage to find anything cheaper than 10Eur/kg, in case of those recycled Mg-ingots pressed from shavings.

 

So I decided to bore you with one question concerning popular Mg-alloys (which are a LOT cheaper by the way): will they work well, or will the added metals have a detrimental impact on the properties of the outcome e.g. making "not-brittle" MgAl?

 

These are:

 

Candidate #1: "AM50"

 

Magnesium Aluminum Alloy with <0,5% Manganese

Al content about 5%

 

Candidate #2: "AM60"

 

Magnesium Aluminum Alloy with <0,5% Manganese

Al content about 6%

 

Candidate #3: "AZ91" (probably the cheapest)

 

Magnesium Aluminum Alloy with about 1% zinc and traces of Mn

Al content about 9%

 

So will these work? Or will they harm the outcome too badly?

Edited April 20, 2010 by AdmiralDonSnider

[Weirdo]

I'm not sure, but if you want 50-50 Al Mg MgAL and you use "AM 50" than you can just weigh off 45% Al to melt en 55 Mg Alloy to put in the molten Al. Than you have your 50 50 again.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Yes, that´s plain. I just wasn´t sure if the zinc or manganese will present a problem concerning brittleness and star appearance. Ideas anyone? Edited April 21, 2010 by AdmiralDonSnider

[Weirdo]

No I'm sure that will be no problem at al, I'm a plumber and I did use as aluminiumsource Alu CV pipes. That conain like 1-2% manganese to. And I have perfect MgAl

 

[Bonny]

Yes, that´s plain. I just wasn´t sure if the zinc or manganese will present a problem concerning brittleness and star appearance. Ideas anyone?

 

Based on what many others are using as feedstock for MgAl (impure Mg and Al) I don't think you have anything to worry about .

[gordohigh]

A lot of concrete tools are made of magnesium, so if you or friends go to garage sales, keep a look out. Also, the guys at the scrap yard know which pieces are mag and keep them seperated from the alu. There seems to be little scrap value compared to the alu but they charged me the same price as alu.

 

One other thought, since all rental companies rent out bull floats, you might ask some of them to contact you when one of them is worn out, they weigh about 20lbs, and the float type blades for concrete finishing machines are also mag and wear out fairly quick.

[50AE]

There is an unique tool that is proven to be useful for making magnalium, the problem is it's "made in Bulgaria" only

It's a powerful eletric crucible which is dedicated to bake peppers. The baked peppers are delicious, with cheeze, salad, etc.

 

http://www.mikimak.com/images/products/B16.1002.jpg

 

This "pepper baker" reaches temperatures from 800 to 1000C and the inside becomes red hot.

These can be bought for cheap. I got one in my old flat, I'll bring it here to try it.

Edited April 23, 2010 by 50AE

[dagabu]

There is an unique tool that is proven to be useful for making magnalium, the problem is it's "made in Bulgaria" only

It's a powerful eletric crucible which is dedicated to bake peppers. The baked peppers are delicious, with cheeze, salad, etc.

 

http://www.mikimak.com/images/products/B16.1002.jpg

 

This "pepper baker" reaches temperatures from 800 to 1000C and the inside becomes red hot.

These can be bought for cheap. I got one in my old flat, I'll bring it here to try it.

 

That looks like 2000 cap plugs worth to me

[Ventsi]

There is an unique tool that is proven to be useful for making magnalium, the problem is it's "made in Bulgaria" only

It's a powerful eletric crucible which is dedicated to bake peppers. The baked peppers are delicious, with cheeze, salad, etc.

 

http://www.mikimak.com/images/products/B16.1002.jpg

 

This "pepper baker" reaches temperatures from 800 to 1000C and the inside becomes red hot.

These can be bought for cheap. I got one in my old flat, I'll bring it here to try it.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm just going to HAVE to get one of those when I stop by this summer. And yes, it makes some damn good pepper salad. =]

BTW, you're still in for those hemi's right?

[50AE]

I'm still No steps back.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Ok, time for a brief retrospect, summing up some practical findings.

 

Firstly thanks APC for getting me involved into MgAl manufacture - it already shows some definite signs of addictive behavior.

 

I found that:

 

- cheap Mg alloys such as the AZ91 decribed above work extremely well given you take the Al content into account when calculating the amounts needed of each metal

 

- don´t attempt to cut pieces off ingots made from Mg-shavings; chisel off pieces instead

 

- you don´t need a blow drier to get the temperature needed when using a charcoal starter

 

- you don´t need to use charcoal briquettes; ordinary charcoal works well, is cheaper, and won´t burn out too fast given no blow drier is used

 

There´s one abnormality I can´t explain: the resulting MgAl ingot shows many bubble-like enclosures in the half closer to the surface, and is solid without any bubbles in the lower half. I don´t know how to avoid enclosures, but I guess it has to do with the 1% oil contained in my Mg. Any ideas?

[Bonny]

 

 

There´s one abnormality I can´t explain: the resulting MgAl ingot shows many bubble-like enclosures in the half closer to the surface, and is solid without any bubbles in the lower half. I don´t know how to avoid enclosures, but I guess it has to do with the 1% oil contained in my Mg. Any ideas?

 

Did you give the melt a thorough stirring? Any oil should have burned off and stirring will help get the air to rise up and out of the melt.

[AdmiralDonSnider]

Did you give the melt a thorough stirring? Any oil should have burned off and stirring will help get the air to rise up and out of the melt.

 

 

Yes I did. I stirred really carefully. However I´m not sure conceptually if all oil burns off before the Mg gets covered by the alu melt, which could result in bubble formation in the liquid.

 

Could it have to do with temperature? I guess the hottest area is near the bottom of the shaker...

[Bonny]

Yes I did. I stirred really carefully. However I´m not sure conceptually if all oil burns off before the Mg gets covered by the alu melt, which could result in bubble formation in the liquid.

 

Could it have to do with temperature? I guess the hottest area is near the bottom of the shaker...

 

I think even if the Mg is covered before oil burn off, the temperature of the Al melt should easily finish the job. Most of the Mg I've used had oil and/or paint on it and I never had any issues, other than the very top layer being "crusty" with the melt slag. I stir mine quite vigorously, before removing from the heat and covering with charcoal.