andyboy Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 Fire starters are generally made of an iron-cerium alloy, not of magnesium. Alloying it with aluminium and trying to grind it down will almost certainly result in a metal fire, because cerium is one of the metals that become pyrophoric when ground off. It's the same stuff lighter flints are made of. Just to clarify:Some firestarters you scrape of some magnesium from a pure Mg bar and light the magnesium with the Cerium/Iron alloy.
Bonny Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 It's the same stuff lighter flints are made of. I was under the impression that lighters actually used a pc of flint(stone)...interesting.
gordohigh Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 The one I posted about from harbour freight is pure magnesium, (well as pure as you need). If anyone was interested, and went to harbourfreight dot com they would see the Mag one. There is so much magnesium around that I don't see anyone buying raw mag anyway. Even some power tools are shrouded in magnesiium, like my router and the guides on my table saw. Bottom line is, If you don't know how to properly test for magnesium, you surely should not be melting it.
Bonny Posted January 12, 2010 Posted January 12, 2010 The one I posted about from harbour freight is pure magnesium, (well as pure as you need). If anyone was interested, and went to harbourfreight dot com they would see the Mag one. There is so much magnesium around that I don't see anyone buying raw mag anyway. Even some power tools are shrouded in magnesiium, like my router and the guides on my table saw. Bottom line is, If you don't know how to properly test for magnesium, you surely should not be melting it. So, in regards to the "bottom line" what is your thought on the best way to test for Mg? Many on here are just learning, actually everyone on here is STILL learning. So, rather than warning them to stay away for lack of knowledge, why not share yours? It can be a benefit to all.
Twotails Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 I heard Vinigar is what you need to check, it'll bubble and fizz, and that is supposidly magnisium. What i want to know, Is grinding it in a Meat grinder a good idea?
dagabu Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 I heard Vinigar is what you need to check, it'll bubble and fizz, and that is supposidly magnisium. What i want to know, Is grinding it in a Meat grinder a good idea? The problem is that a Mg alloy will bubble too. It is best to have a known sample at your disposal to compare the voracity at which it reacts. I think the meat grinder is for Mg/Al, not straight Mg or say bye bye to the meat grinder.
Mumbles Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 If it bubbles vigoriously it is going to be a high Mg alloy anyway. It would hard to discern 100% Mg from 95% Mg by bubbling alone.
EEguy Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 Wow, I didn't think about Harbor Freight as a source. I made some Magnalium (MgAl) a few years ago, in 2005 and 2006. I sure would have appreciated this thread back then! Since Mg is harder to find, I often made 40/60 Mg/Al. I got my Magnesium for free from an old VW bug engine case. It was such a messy PITA to disassemble it and cut it up with a saws-all. In the end I got both Mg and Al from it (Al pistons). I later bought about 20lb from a local metal recycling place for $4-$6 per pound; well worth it. I can tell Mg from Al by the way it shaves with a knife. The freshly shaved Mg is more shiny than Al, and it is easier to shave. To know what I mean, you just gotta shave both of them side by side. You can always hit a small chunk with a propane torch to be sure. Some quick things I learned; for the beginner MgAl smiths: Use smaller diameter, deeper crucibles and casts to limit the surface area of the melt in contact with the air. Melt the Al first, then add the Mg. Sprinkle a little sulfur over the molten MgAl when in the crucible and cast. This makes a layer of sulfur dioxide that protects the melt from the oxygen in the air. Be up-wind when you do this. Don't breath it! Doing this will limit the black crusties and increase the efficiency. Also cover the melt whenever possible with a steel plate. I used a homemade 3.6kW electric foundry because I didn't like the idea of flames around molten magnesium. In the end, the Mg caught fire anyway, but I'd like to think it was still better than gas. Here is a 3-4lb ingot sample:http://www.simonclemens.com/MgAl/MgAl%20Ingot.jpg I wrote a tech note on this: Making Magnalium Powder More Pictures:50/50 Magnalium Ingot Pieces50/50 Crushed Magnalium 70/30 Magnalium Ingot and pieces70/30 Crushed Magnalium70/30 Magnalium Powder (24 hours milled)
Richtee Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 What i want to know, Is grinding it in a Meat grinder a good idea?VERY bad idea... in MY meat grinder anyway
andyboy Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 I am using my blender for the magnalium. I crush the ingot to smaller pieces and put it in a blender, sieve it in different meshes and I'm done.
Bonny Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 I wrote a tech note on this: Making Magnalium Powder If you had read back a few pages, there is also a link to a great tutorial. Here is the link:http://www.pyrobin.com/files/home%20made%20magnalium.pdf Most guys don't bother with sulfur. Charcoal works very well as a covering layer.
dagabu Posted January 13, 2010 Posted January 13, 2010 VERY bad idea... in MY meat grinder anyway MMMMMM, what is that special 'crunchy' flavor I am tasting?
Twotails Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 I tried a meat grinder, Damn, you'll have to be superman to grind it! it seems realy hard(in the grinder) I might try a blender as mentioned above, I'm guessing you run it dry?
andyboy Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 Yupp, but make sure you use a beat up old blender. It will scratch the hell out of the blenders walls.
EEguy Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 If you had read back a few pages, there is also a link to a great tutorial. Here is the link:http://www.pyrobin.com/files/home%20made%20magnalium.pdf Most guys don't bother with sulfur. Charcoal works very well as a covering layer. I did read that tutorial the other day and liked it. Charcoal huh? Never thought of that. I will give that a try next time. I would like to avoid the SO2 if I can. Thanks.
andyboy Posted January 14, 2010 Posted January 14, 2010 As I mentioned earlier, powdered bentonite clay is also great for protecting the Mg/Al.
Pyro09 Posted January 15, 2010 Posted January 15, 2010 As I mentioned earlier, powdered bentonite clay is also great for protecting the Mg/Al. So you just pour some bentonite over the melted MgAl?
gordohigh Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 The vinegar test is one way of telling, also you can take a torch and burn a hole through the mag and it will crackle and catch fire with bright white edges where alu will just burn a hole thru it. Also, If you shave a few little slices off the mag and light it it will flare up a bright white light when it catches on fire, (you only need a little bit, 3 or 4 shavings). I'm sure there are other ways too but telling the difference between a hard flint like substance and a soft magnesium should be easy as was stated above.
gordohigh Posted January 16, 2010 Posted January 16, 2010 I hit paydirt today as far as magnesium goes. I went out to my dads and was asking if he had any laying around, (lawnmower housings, et.), and he says, Ya, I have a 16 foot mag screed you can have. It is about 2 in. by 4 in. and the wall thickness is about 3/16ths. I'm guessing it to weigh about 15-18 lbs so I won't be needing any more for a long, long time. I also got a bunch of alu diamond plate strips he had too so I am set. I did 2 runs this week of about a pound each of finished product and really enjoyed doing it. For those that have not tried it yet it is fairly easy and quite rewarding...
Ralph Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 I tried a meat grinder, Damn, you'll have to be superman to grind it! it seems realy hard(in the grinder) I might try a blender as mentioned above, I'm guessing you run it dry? either my mgal is much more brittle than yours or your piss weak because im no super man and i run it through a manual meat grinder with ease
Twotails Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 well, what setting? i have mine on fine, so the stuff comming out is no bigger than maby 80 mesh at the biggest. Also its an older grinder, and is finiky. and dosent have blades like a new grinder, but more like two flat bars sliding across each other.
Bonny Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 (edited) well, what setting? i have mine on fine, so the stuff comming out is no bigger than maby 80 mesh at the biggest. Also its an older grinder, and is finiky. and dosent have blades like a new grinder, but more like two flat bars sliding across each other. BUT, did you eat your Wheaties beforehand? Edited January 20, 2010 by Bonny
Ralph Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 the date of manufacture stamped on mine is 1955 its old some parts are rusted and the thing that fixes it to the base cant be properly tightened so it wobbles a bit its far from a well oiled machine and neither am I ( i only do weights once a week) the stuff coming out is nice and fine
Mumbles Posted January 20, 2010 Posted January 20, 2010 Have you tried to do an initial pass on a coarser setting before running it through on a finer setting. It should save a lot of arm power. Alternatively, you could get on the juice and become a homerun hitting MgAl grinding machine. You know, only to help you recover faster and make you feel normal.
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