Aluminium powder

[Niter]

You should try to be careful I usually prefer to put my comp in large Tupperware containers and shake it rather then screen it together.

 

 

With many compositions you can, though shaking it in a paper cup with a piece of smooth cardboard as a lid is to be preferred over any kind of plastic.

 

I wouldn't treat flash that way though, such sensitive compositions diapering is best, I myself prefer the pouring it back and forth between two paper cups method over the sheet of paper for that.

[Swede]

What I heard of Buddy Ebsen is that the makeup people would take a powder-poof thing and literally blob the aluminum all over his face. There he is, breathing through the nose, with a flowing poof right there... I'm not surprised that he got hurt, bad. I believe he suffered from respiratory problems the rest of his life from that.

 

Al through the skin - don't think it's a problem. If you use deodorant (we ALL do, right? ) you are probably rolling on aluminum salts in heavy concentrations, every day. Some people have given up aluminum deodorants because of the alzheimer's scare, but I think that's overreaction... plus, now they smell bad.

 

If the comp with aluminum has other chems that can be first mixed with the Al powder, like sulfur, the sulfur can be used to consolidate or trap the fine Al and keep it from getting airborne. It would seem the best idea is to handle the pure Al carefully, gently mix it with the correct proportion of PVC, S, whatever, at which point it appears to be much less messy to handle.

[jacob]

thanks for the replies everyone, I think I'll just use my respirator for larger amounts of dusty Al.

 

Niter, what a great idea thank you, I've always thought diapering on a sheet of paper was a bit of a pain, never thought of useing paper cups.

[Bonny]

Some people have given up aluminum deodorants because of the alzheimer's scare, but I think that's overreaction... plus, now they smell bad.

Yeah, a lot of hippies especially. I guess the smell is OK becuase it's natural...

[hst45]

I would be more worried about it as a particulate than I would about it's potential alzheimer's implications.

As a lung irritant I'd assume that the concern was valid, but let's face it, in this hobby you're more likely to suffer bodily harm from Aluminum powders reactive nature when combined with oxidizers than long term health risks. More people will likely be rushed to the emergency room with a thumb on ice in a cooler than with a nagging cough.

 

I remember 10 or 15 years ago hearing that the aluminum compound in antiperspirants thought to be an Alheizemers hazard was aluminum chlorhydrate if I remember correctly.

[flying fish]

According the wikipedia article and its links/ references, one study showed a statistical correlation between Aluminum ions in drinking water and alsheimers. Wouldn't inhaled elemental aluminum also produce Aluminum ions once your body dissolves it? Not that I'm assuming there to be any real danger from what we do, but it is just a thought.

 

In any case...I work with bright and atomized aluminums, but not on a regular basis (I only mix up about 4 or 5 star batches a year that contain aluminum). I have not invested in a resperator yet...but now I am tempted to. I came in from the workshop...after working with a comp that contains a particularily high percentage of aluminum. And when I blew my nose...it was kind of an aluminum-y color! I figure that can't be too healthy no matter which way you look at!

 

One encouraging thing was that Buddy Ebsen did not die from alsheimers. However, he did have lung problems which he thought were related to the bright Al inhalation.

Edited August 3, 2008 by flying fish

[Arthur]

Aluminium does accumulate in the brain when there is the alzheimers condition. However there is little if any valid evidence that Aluminium is the cause of alzheimers. If there was, the aluminium drinks can and the aluminium cooking pan would be rapidly going the way of asbestos.

 

HOWEVER There is NO reason to put your body at risk, this is life not a dress rehearsal, and you have one body and need it all in working order. If your handkerchief shows chemical traces you are exposing yourself to contamination that you were not designed for! However the chems may not be toxic in proportion to their messiness! Assume that you will inhale and ingest the chems so protect yourself. ANY fine powder should be met with a face mask to suit! They are YOUR ONLY lungs and life as you know it ends with the lungs getting clogged. Likewise face, eyes amd ears fingers etc.

 

 

In the Rubber industry carbon black is used at about 30% of product volume/weight so that means a tyre may contain 3 - 5 kilos of carbon. There are other compounds used as tiny traces which are much more hazardous but the usual "white crystaline powder" of organic chemistry. The workers think the masks are to keep them clean from the black but actually the masks are to protect from the hazardous organics not the dirty carbon blacks!

[Swede]

I recently received two half-kilos of lead salts, PbO2 and Pb(NO3)2, for anode research, and I haven't even opened the containers yet. They scare me. When I do, I am going to wear gloves, a respirator, goggles, and since I don't have a hood, I am thinking about rigging up a HEPA filter unit with the suction right next to the work area. The HEPA filter should trap any dusts that get airborne. It may sound very paranoid, but I look at cumulative poisons and carcinogens very much differently than voltailes like MEK and such. If you inhale too much ether, you cop a buzz; your body will metabolize and rid itself of it. But stuff like chromium compounds, lead compounds, mercury, they all accumulate and can cause no end of health problems.

 

Look up beryllium poisoning for a real scare. The problem with beryllium is that it is often alloyed with copper, and unknowing people grind or sand this material, and if the beryllium dust get in your skin or lungs, look out.

[TYRONEEZEKIEL]

About how much, and where would I go to get one of these particle reduction masks?

 

Safety is easily my main concern!

[Swede]

It depends upon where you live. These units can be found in most big-box hardware stores, or you can order them online:

 

http://www.uline.com/BL_992/Reusable-Respirators--Supplies

 

http://www.uline.com/images/product/Group/HD_992_G.JPG

 

The half-face respirator is fine unless you want to protect your eyes.

Edited October 4, 2008 by Swede

[kenT]

About how much, and where would I go to get one of these particle reduction masks?

 

Safety is easily my main concern!

 

[Pyro55]

I bought my last one at Harbor Freight. I think it was on sale for $29.00. They also have the refill cartridges.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=34796

[bret]

Aluminium does accumulate in the brain when there is the alzheimers condition. However there is little if any valid evidence that Aluminium is the cause of alzheimers. If there was, the aluminium drinks can and the aluminium cooking pan would be rapidly going the way of asbestos.

 

HOWEVER There is NO reason to put your body at risk, this is life not a dress rehearsal, and you have one body and need it all in working order. If your handkerchief shows chemical traces you are exposing yourself to contamination that you were not designed for! However the chems may not be toxic in proportion to their messiness! Assume that you will inhale and ingest the chems so protect yourself. ANY fine powder should be met with a face mask to suit! They are YOUR ONLY lungs and life as you know it ends with the lungs getting clogged. Likewise face, eyes amd ears fingers etc.

 

 

In the Rubber industry carbon black is used at about 30% of product volume/weight so that means a tyre may contain 3 - 5 kilos of carbon. There are other compounds used as tiny traces which are much more hazardous but the usual "white crystaline powder" of organic chemistry. The workers think the masks are to keep them clean from the black but actually the masks are to protect from the hazardous organics not the dirty carbon blacks!

 

Aluminum drink cans, especially beer cans are lined, they are sprayed with a liner to keep the beverage from contacting the aluminum, if you were to put beer in an unlined aluminum can, it would go flat very quickly.

 

The lawyers will eventually try and turn aluminum into the next asbestos, that way they will have a large Class Action Lawsuit.

 

The part in bold is very good advice.

[propyro]

Really? I thought that "Al causes Alzheimers" myth was pretty well de-bunked. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I thought the current research showed.

I used to believe the same thing,but I've heard otherwise since.I doubt it causes any serious harm unless of course you are inhaling excessive quantities regularly.Every time I am using 2 or 1.5 micron AL I always breath some even though I try to not to stir it up it is so fine theres always a small amount that stays in the air.The inside of my nose turns black but I just don't worry about it,too much of just about anything can cause health problems.

[propyro]

thanks for the replies everyone, I think I'll just use my respirator for larger amounts of dusty Al.

 

Niter, what a great idea thank you, I've always thought diapering on a sheet of paper was a bit of a pain, never thought of useing paper cups.

Also consider a glass mason jar/w lid that's what I've been using to mix FP for a long time.

[nater]

A glass jar is NOT the right way to mix flash!!!!! Or any other pyrotechnic mixture. How stupid can you be??

 

Also consider a glass mason jar/w lid that's what I've been using to mix FP for a long time.

Edited January 17, 2013 by nater

[MrB]

Honestly. Anyone working with fine insoluble powders should use a breathing protection. Anyone working with them should also wear sealing eye protection. Do i cheat? You bet... *sigh* Stupidity will be my downfall in the end, i swear. Sure i got the stuff, and i use it when i'm doing work with significant amounts, but really, one should always use protection. Charcoal alone can cause chronic breathing issues, and cause you to be pulling an oxygen tank around for the rest of your life in extreme cases...

B!

[AirCowPeacock]

I always wear some form of respertor and eye protecion when working with any fine insoluble powder. I dont want to see the silver lungs of someone who doesn't wear breathing protection when working with bright Al.

[dan999ification]

glass jar.... holy cow it will end bad, confining it in any way before you build the device is a very bad idea especially with glass.

 

Do you know what could happen?

 

Dan.

[propyro]

A glass jar is NOT the right way to mix flash!!!!! Or any other pyrotechnic mixture. How stupid can you be??

Tell us all how and why a glass container is so CRAZY!!!!!Tell us all what the safest container should be considering the fact that glass carries little to no static charge potential,and if I was careless enough to drop and break the container do you really think a KCLO4/AL mixture would do anything other than make a mess.You apparently don't have much experience with this mix.I've set up salutes that I've made and shot 45 cal slugs at them one bullet ripped the bottom end plug off,no explosion,I shot at a blockbuster several times knocking it off the tree leaving tears on the sides of it.In both cases it took a direct hit in the center for an explosion to occur and it took a 320 grain bullet travelling at about 850 feet per second.So if you think mixing flash in a glass jar is stupid in light of what I've just said explain why,and then give us all of your sage advice on the "right" way to mix and store.

[Mumbles]

You should probably lose the attitude. I happen to agree with everyone else here. It's not a matter of static charge potential or potential impact sensitivity. It's a matter of general safety and proper precautions. There is no sense at all in using a glass container. A container that will provide quite sufficient containment for flash to reach full effect and shrapnel in a worst case scenario. It is idiotic to put any explosive composition inside a container which can yield shrapnel. Just because it probably wont happen is no reason to undertake unnecessary risks.

 

Is there really any sense in using glass at all really? Cardboard would certainly allow for the same applications. This is all besides the fact that shaking or rolling any composition in a sealed container yields inferior mixing anyway. This might be why you observed the sensitivities that you did.

 

The safest container is no container at all. Using a container to make it is generally a sign of kewl tendencies and too great of reliance on shitty sources like youtube for information and tutorials. All the professionals and well established pyrotechnists mix it without a container via diapering or other methods.

[propyro]

glass jar.... holy cow it will end bad, confining it in any way before you build the device is a very bad idea especially with glass.

 

Do you know what could happen?

 

Dan.

Dan read my response to Nater.I've mixed thousands of grams of flash powder in glass mason jars and have made hundreds of salutes,I have tested this mixture in some torturous ways to see just how stable it is.Hey this might freak Nater the hater out I use hot glue to glue the ends of my salutes on high temperature after I insert the kraft paper end plug and fuse after I fill the tube, hot glue works the best and makes the best looking most

professional and waterproof ends.To test the heat sensitivity of this mixture I of course dabbed some on a very minute amount of flash-no reaction so I thought I'd go a little further to see how much heat this flash could tolerate so I took three small little squares of tin foil and I had flash made with three different aluminums:GERMAN black,INDIAN black,and some 6micron eckart of some sort.I put a little bit of each kind in the three pieces of foil probably no more than a 1/4g in each if that much.then I also placed a little wedge of a hot glue stick in the powder of each and baked all three in the oven at

500 degrees for half an hour.When I took out the samples the flash looked the same as before I baked it but the piece of hot glue melted into the mix and

charred a dark brown.MY CONCLUSION........I Know flash better than most, and definitely better than Nater.I think most people are WAY too paranoid

when it comes to mixing flash,I have no worries about mixing 300-400grams at a time IN A GLASS MASON JAR! That would probably have Nater all

puckered up.

[propyro]

You should probably lose the attitude. I happen to agree with everyone else here. It's not a matter of static charge potential or potential impact sensitivity. It's a matter of general safety and proper precautions. There is no sense at all in using a glass container. A container that will provide quite sufficient containment for flash to reach full effect and shrapnel in a worst case scenario. It is idiotic to put any explosive composition inside a container which can yield shrapnel. Just because it probably wont happen is no reason to undertake unnecessary risks.

 

Is there really any sense in using glass at all really? Cardboard would certainly allow for the same applications. This is all besides the fact that shaking or rolling any composition in a sealed container yields inferior mixing anyway. This might be why you observed the sensitivities that you did.

 

The safest container is no container at all. Using a container to make it is generally a sign of kewl tendencies and too great of reliance on shitty sources like youtube for information and tutorials. All the professionals and well established pyrotechnists mix it without a container via diapering or other methods.

The diapering method is primarily for very sensitive High Explosive mixtures and for those who are overly paranoid about a relatively stable non HE such as KCLO4/AL.If stored properly which I do IT IS NOT going to spontaneously explode.and I like The glass also because I can see how well the mix is blended and there's no way you can diaper mix mor thouroghly than I can in a closed jar.And if were all honest I would imagine that most pyros store some flash,I'm not suggesting pounds just hanging around waiting to be loaded some day.I'm talking a jar 1/4 full because I felt like finishing another day etc..

[mathiasxx94]

Survival of the fittest, perfect sentence in some contexts.

 

You should get the f*** out of here before someone start to attempt your "pro" method

 

I Know flash better than most, and definitely better than Nater.I think most people are WAY too paranoid

when it comes to mixing flash,I have no worries about mixing 300-400grams at a time IN A GLASS MASON JAR! That would probably have Nater all puckered up.

 

I am not going to talk for Nater, but if he don't dare to mix 400g of flash in a glass jar it just shows that he got something in his head.

[MrB]

@ProPyro: It's your life, i could care less how you make, or store your Flash. But there is a reason for why you never store chems in jars that can shatter, and create shrapnel. And, when it comes to hot glue / glue-guns, hardly any composition we use can be ignited by the glue-guns heat. The risk with them is the simple fact that people have had em short out, causing sparks, or simply catching fire. Hence people recommend disconnecting them from the wall before using them. But again, it's your life. If you stop writing here we'll all assume you managed to blow your arms of, and quite frankly, at this point you've pretty much alienated pretty much everyone, so they wont even feel sorry for ya, it will be along the lines of "The stupid SOB had it coming anyway".

 

Cheers.

B!