pyrogeorge Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 I search but i didn't find nothing about al powder..This chemical is dangerous?How it reacts?
Richtee Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 I search but i didn't find nothing about al powder..This chemical is dangerous?How it reacts?Try here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium
Miech Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 It could be dangerous. For example, fine divided aluminium dust could give an fuel/air explosion. Aluminium itself is toxic on long terms as it is an neurotoxin and known to cause alzheimer. There are cases known of people dying or getting severe health problems due to inhaling aluminium. Flake aluminium can fysically damage your lungs, which can cause edema. Particle size and shape are of great influence on the real danger involving in working with aluminium. Finer particles are more dangerous.
Niter Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 The biggest health hazard with aluminium powder would be inhalation of aluminium dust. Particularly bad are the really fine dusts of 1-5 micrometer, like German Dark aluminium, which make it all the way into the smallest channels of the lungs and plug them up. You could get dust pneumonia and die from a single exposure. The biggest hazmat hazards of Al powder are airborne dust explosions (like said) and aluminium fires, which are among the hottest fires on earth. Aluminium + alkali hydroxides or alkali nitrates and moisture generates heat (or fire!) and hydrogen gas that is violently explosive with air. Al + Nitrate -- self-ignition, add 1-2% boric acidAl + (per)Chlorate -- sensitive extremely rapid hot-burning mixturesAl + metal oxides, sulfates, carbonates -- hot burning, liquid metal slagAl + metal phosphate -- hot burning, ashes + moisture yields lethal phosphine gas
Richtee Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 General info only..not for safety Oh, I dunno...seems a fair section on health concerns. Not SPECIFICALLY on powder tho. Don't breathe it. Most of the dangers about it are why you bought it.
pyrogeorge Posted July 19, 2008 Author Posted July 19, 2008 http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0988.htm
pyrogeorge Posted July 19, 2008 Author Posted July 19, 2008 Most Al powders are coated so it doesn't react in water and in nitrates?
Frozentech Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Most Al powders are coated so it doesn't react in water and in nitrates? Actually stearin coated bright flake Al can still react with nitrates. I believe its coated just to reduce oxidation during the manufacturing process.
FREAKYDUTCHMEN Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 If the humidity isn't extremely high it is impossible to react with kno3, and if it is damp then the chance still is very low. Stearine is a fatty substance so that will keep out oxide to react with the aluminium.
hst45 Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Aluminium itself is toxic on long terms as it is an neurotoxin and known to cause alzheimer.Really? I thought that "Al causes Alzheimers" myth was pretty well de-bunked. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I thought the current research showed. 1
crazyboy25 Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Well just doing some reading there are a bunch of people who claim it does but just as many claim it doesn't. Personally I'm not really afraid, don't snort lines of German dark and you should be fine. I would be more concerned about other chems like barium nitrate and dichromate that have been proven dangerous. As for aluminum safety your fine I know this may seem irresponsible but come don't be a pussy, its aluminum buy it or don't. Wear gloves and a mask and you'll be fine.
FREAKYDUTCHMEN Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 As for aluminum safety your fine I know this may seem irresponsible but come don't be a pussy, its aluminum buy it or don't. Wear gloves and a mask and you'll be fine.I like this atitude!If you're afraid of alzheimer and chances of 0,01% to get injured, you shouldn't be doing pyro in the first place. 1
Swede Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I'd like to add, a REAL respirator is needed, not one of those crap surgical masks. If the respirator doesn't have replaceable cartridges, and doesn't cup your mouth and nose well, it's junk. 100% of the air you breath must be processed through the respirator, no leaks around the edges. Be sure to get one for dust and particulates; live long, and prosper. 2
crazyboy25 Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I'd like to add, a REAL respirator is needed, not one of those crap surgical masks. If the respirator doesn't have replaceable cartridges, and doesn't cup your mouth and nose well, it's junk. 100% of the air you breath must be processed through the respirator, no leaks around the edges. Be sure to get one for dust and particulates; live long, and prosper. Absolutely Swede, as I mentioned in another thread I have a respirator that completely covers the nose and mouth. It has two cartridges that protect against gases such as chlorine and mercury vapors as well as particulate matter. It does protect against ammonia which as some members mentioned is bad as ammonia could be the first sign of a dangerous incompatibility but I do need it to work with ammonia so this should be taken onto consideration.
Mumbles Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 From what I've read about Alzheimers is that aluminum is potentially involved, but exposure is not the cause. There are studies to show that there is an increase in aluminum based plaque in the brains of people with the disease. I've never seen a single study that says that exposure to aluminum(especially metallic forms) make you any more likely to develop the disease. It always seemed more to me like a breakdown in the ability to degrade and excrete it. Aluminum is thought to be a trace essential mineral I believe. It's found in many common foods. Bananas, peas, etc. I would be more worried about it as a particulate than I would about it's potential alzheimer's implications.
WarezWally Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Remember the first Tin man, he nearly died from aluminium powder exposure.
jacob Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Where did you hear that? even if it is true you shouldn't be exposed to anywhere near that much airborn al powder in hobby pyro. 1
TheSidewinder Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Warezwally is correct. Buddy Ebsen was the first person cast to play the "Tin Woodsman" in the movie, "The Wizard of Oz", and had a nasty encounter with Aluminum powder. From the Wikipedia: In the classic 1939 movie The Wizard of Oz, the Tin Man was played by actor Jack Haley. Buddy Ebsen was originally cast to play the role, but the character's makeup originally contained aluminum powder; Ebsen accidentally breathed the powder into his lungs and was rushed to a hospital. This forced him to give up the role. Haley based his breathy speaking style in the movie on the voice he used for telling his son bedtime stories. His portrayal of the character is by far the most famous. (Ray Bolger played The Scarecrow, and Burt Lahr portrayed The Cowardly Lion.)
jacob Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Huh, I wonder how much he breathed? now I want to know if I should be wearing my respirator when working with it? the only dust I've noticed with any AL powder comes from some uncoated 325 mesh spherical I have, and it seems minimal, you should be fine with coated stuff right? Now I guess I've got about the same questions as the OP.
Gunzway Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 Huh, I wonder how much he breathed? now I want to know if I should be wearing my respirator when working with it? the only dust I've noticed with any AL powder comes from some uncoated 325 mesh spherical I have, and it seems minimal, you should be fine with coated stuff right? Now I guess I've got about the same questions as the OP. Well, I would just like to say you should open the lid containing the aluminum powder slowly. When it is open stay away from it and let the dust sink or "disappear". Then after you don't see anymore dust you should go to it.But I would just invest in a respirator. I think an important rule with pyrotechnics would be to get the safety equipment first before you start getting all the chemicals etc. To answer your question, better safe than sorry. If you got a respirator might as well use it.
Mumbles Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 The kind that he likely breathed in was probably very very similar to our bright flake Al we currently use. That is the more accepted use of it actually, silver paint.
marks265 Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 I made another waterfall effect for the 4th this year which contained alot of Al. While mixing I was wearing my respirator. My wife walked up to me and said I looked like the tin man. I thought yea right whatever. I spent a whole day working on this 25 foot effect as a last minute project. It trashed my work area because I screened 2kg of comp. several times. I did not know how bad of shape I was in until I looked in a mirror. She was right I literally looked like the tin man. I had a very good idea that it was bad because the work area was obvious. But did not understand how bad. It took another whole day just to clean up the mess. I liked my last water fall better but this one lit the whole area up like day light for almost 45 secs. I trashed the mask. I'm not even going to save it. If you have ever worked with fine AL you'll know why. I'm glad I was wearing it and I never got sick. I was more worried about AL. leeching through the pores of my skin or something. Al. is the most irratating thing to me so far which deserves that much more respect IMO! When ever I mix any comp I put a mask on. Just common sense and only takes a second. I look at it like this- "At least I don't have charcoal dust up my nose!" I guess my point is you'll never know how bad it is until it is too late so prepare for it anyway.
crazyboy25 Posted July 21, 2008 Posted July 21, 2008 You should try to be careful I usually prefer to put my comp in large Tupperware containers and shake it rather then screen it together. BTW what comp are you using?
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