The BBQ Charcoal Tutorial

[tentacles]

Rich: I've cooked food over pine coals before, up in Colorado, was very good. You *must* burn the flames out first though.

 

TS: Actually a lot of hardwoods make great lift - look at balsa and alder, for starters. Ash, maple, willow. And pine makes great effects. Add a little kingsford to rockets or make some blender comets with it, can be good stuff indeed.

[Richtee]

Rich: I've cooked food over pine coals before, up in Colorado, was very good. You *must* burn the flames out first though.

 

TS: Actually a lot of hardwoods make great lift - look at balsa

Hmmm OK I suppose that would work, but by the time the "nasties" are gone, I'd think the BTU's ain't far behind. Sooo you would have a side pit to make coals? Or just make a 'uge fire to start? Interesting...

 

Hardwood...balsa? Really? I guess I'm not sure what a hardwood is then?

[tentacles]

Rich: I preferred the "make a huge fire" method, just took lots of sticks in my cut propane tank style BBQ and burned em to coals, threw on my meat (I think it was sirloin steaks) and it had a nice smoky flavor, kind of piney but not what you'd expect. It was whatever, colorado pine or whatever they call it up in the mountains. Aspen makes good BBQ wood too.

 

The difference between softwood and hardwood (as opposed to soft or hard wood) is conifer vs deciduous, respectively. Just meaning that conifers have cones (instead of leaves) and are generally evergreen, whereas deciduous (angiosperm trees) trees have leaves and are generally seasonal. The one exception is Ginkgo Biloba, it has it's own division in the plant kingdom. Very neat trees, the pictures there don't do them justice.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingko_biloba

[Frozentech]

Hardwood...balsa? Really? I guess I'm not sure what a hardwood is then?

Bizarrely enough, yes, Balsa is a hardwood. All the broad-leaf trees are hardwood. Also, Yew is a softwood. Tentacles has it exactly right.

 

I need to make more Balsa charcoal, now that I am thinking of it. I only make a few hundred grams at a time, since that's all that will fit in my retort. I keep swearing I will move up to a 5 gal retort, but I still haven't gotten to it.

[Richtee]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingko_biloba

Well...sommabitch. Thanks to ya Sir... learn something new every day - or yer dead according to Granpa, God rest his soul.

 

And Frozen too :{)

[TheSidewinder]

Yah, should have been more careful with my spaces in words.

 

Hard woods versus hardwoods, and soft woods versus softwoods.

 

From what I understand, it's the cellular structure of the wood itself that determines the properties it imparts to BP, and a soft wood makes the hottest BP.

 

Cooking meat over evergreen woods? Blecchh... even when they're just coals you're still getting some of the volatiles imparting their residues on the meat. Are you sure you all weren't drunk when you ate that meat, tentacles? That makes even shoe leather palatable.

 

And pipipi, I'm curious to know the results.

 

Good lord, Ginkgo Biloba is unique in its own *Phylum*.

Talk about a living fossil. Neat!

[sr420]

cool ill have to try this thanks for posting the info it is very helpfull

[pyrogeorge]

Ah, ok, thanks for checking in, pipipi. So you never tried Olve wood, eh? I'm still curious about it. If it's a hardwood, it should make very good BP for stars and streamers then. Not sure how good it would be for lift.

 

Thesidewinder i make BP from olive wood charcoal..it burns 9,5 cm in 2sec.

It's powder after milling for 1.30 hour.

The charcoal smashed easily with my hands,so i don't think that is hardwood and it burning without sparks..

Also look the video

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RhxIxIa7Q

[TheSidewinder]

Hmmm... I think it needs to milled for a *LOT* longer time period. The burn time in that video was very slow compared to commercial BP, or even good home-made BP.

 

1.5 hours of milling really isn't much time, unless you're using a *serious* Ball Mill. If it's a "Rock Tumbler" type mill, then increase the time to 24 hours and try your test again.

 

If, after long-milling, it still burns that slow then I don't think it would be suitable for anything except charcoal streamer stars. And even then, it might prove unsuitable if burns that long.

 

And that would surprise me. Olive is considered a fruitwood, IIRC (though I'm not 100% sure).

 

Has anyone used any fruitwoods in their experiments? And are the trees that produce nuts (Pecan, Almond, Walnut, etc.) also considered fruitwoods?

[qwezxc12]

snip.....

Has anyone used any fruitwoods in their experiments? And are the trees that produce nuts (Pecan, Almond, Walnut, etc.) also considered fruitwoods?

 

I saw an example of a Walnut dust cremora on a link at Passfire...hellacious! I think the dust was sub-micron. cycloned stuff. No idea of it efficacy in BP, though

[TheSidewinder]

If that's the one I'm thinking of, it was using powdered Walnut shells, and not the tree's wood. (And also IIRC, walnut shell is used as a polishing media for cartridge casings.)

 

But that brings up the question of whether the powdered shells would do the job, too. Hmmm... interesting. Might have to add this to my "list of things to try when I'm bored".

 

With luck, someone here will have some info to share about that.

[Mumbles]

I want to say Mormanman was using, or maybe still is, pecan charcoal for his BP. He reported fairly good performance.

[LGM]

I've got a bunch of walnut, both the wood and the nuts (< I laughed at that) , lying around. I can probably find out how powdered shells work in place of charcoal if there are enough on the ground.

[TheSidewinder]

I believe the idea is to make charcoal FROM the hulls, not substitute the unburned powdered hulls FOR charcoal.

[Richtee]

Has anyone used any fruitwoods in their experiments? And are the trees that produce nuts (Pecan, Almond, Walnut, etc.) also considered fruitwoods?

 

Well, I'm extremely satified with my packing paper charcoal, but of COURSE I seem to have a bit of fruitwood and pecan wood around . I'd be happy to try a batch and report back.

[Richtee]

Well, I'm extremely satified with my packing paper charcoal, but of COURSE I seem to have a bit of fruitwood and pecan wood around . I'd be happy to try a batch and report back.

 

Well, I made a small batch of apple charcoal. I can tell just by it's "dense" feel it's prolly not what is looked for. I will make a small BP batch, perhaps a couple pucks and check it out tho.

[TheSidewinder]

Hmmm...

 

You probably already know this, but snap a larger piece in half across the diameter and see if it's shiny black all the way through.

 

If it's not shiny and solid black all through, it wasn't "cooked" completely.

 

If it is, and is as dense as you say, I'm guessing it will be equivalent to commercial (hardwood) airfloat.

 

But do let us know the results.

[Richtee]

Hmmm...

 

You probably already know this, but snap a larger piece in half across the diameter and see if it's shiny black all the way through.

 

If it's not shiny and solid black all through, it wasn't "cooked" completely.

 

If it is, and is as dense as you say, I'm guessing it will be equivalent to commercial (hardwood) airfloat.

 

But do let us know the results.

She was shiny. Matter of fact, after an hour or so on the heat I din't see any smoke issuing from the vessel, and let it go another 15. As a comparison, the 30 grams of apple appeared to occupy about one half the volume of the paper charcoal.

[TheSidewinder]

Probably equivalent to commercial hardwood Airfloat, then.

 

But until you test it we'll never know.

[Richtee]

Probably equivalent to commercial hardwood Airfloat, then.

 

But until you test it we'll never know.

Pucks drying now. Will make a dummy 3" of perhaps 100g and try as lift, a 3 gram corned pile and...now what about a train? What is standard? Amountand length? And how do I use the vid to gauge speed? I mean I know frames... Hmmm have to look into this.

[tentacles]

Rich, you might cross reference Dan Creagan's tests of charcoal. He lists his methods for testing on there somewhere. (http://wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/charcoal_tests.html)

[FrankRizzo]

Pucks drying now. Will make a dummy 3" of perhaps 100g and try as lift, a 3 gram corned pile and...now what about a train? What is standard? Amountand length? And how do I use the vid to gauge speed? I mean I know frames... Hmmm have to look into this.

 

Trough burn rate testing is basically useless. It's highly variable and dependent of such factors as atmospheric pressure, humidity, and temperature. The most useful test is to granulate a batch to FFg size and do a baseball/3" mortar test comparing it to another test on the same day using an equivalent weight of commercial sporting powder. The idea is not to have the "fastest" powder, but instead the powder that will *consistently* (VERY important) do the most work per gram.

[Richtee]

Rich, you might cross reference Dan Creagan's tests of charcoal. He lists his methods for testing on there somewhere. (http://wichitabuggywhip.com/fireworks/charcoal_tests.html)

Ahh...thanks... apple seems about crap... heh. Interesting the ~25% variance in same batch powder performance over several days testing.

[Richtee]

Trough burn rate testing is basically useless. It's highly variable and dependent of such factors as atmospheric pressure, humidity, and temperature. The most useful test is to granulate a batch to FFg size and do a baseball/3" mortar test comparing it to another test on the same day using an equivalent weight of commercial sporting powder. The idea is not to have the "fastest" powder, but instead the powder that will *consistently* (VERY important) do the most work per gram.

 

I was thinking about the same thing...thanks Frank. The trough test is useless due to varibles. Hmm..perhaps I'll actually have to go get a can of Goex. Never used commercial before LOL! But apparently, I pretty much know the outcome after taking in the Witchita information...sigh. No waste tho...I'll test it anyway, and I only made 200g. Black match at worst :{)

[Eric70]

Hmm... if it's the one I'm thinging of, I've heard Royal Oak Lump is a good hardwood charcoal, nearly as good as Cowboy (though I haven't verified it).

 

If it is, it should make good BP for streamers and stars.

 

I know this reply is to a 2008 thread. Niter did a very good tutorial. I just want to defend Royal Oak Lump charcoal.

 

For the past 3 years I have been using Royal Oak 100% Natural Wood Charcoal for my BP coreburner rockets. This brand is packaged in a red bag. Also used the green bag of Royal Oak Steak House 100% Natural Wood Lump Charcoal. Both products work fine for me, although I have used the red bags more. I use the soft, lightweight pieces of charcoal for my 1 lb and smaller rockets and the hard stuff for the 3 lb rockets. To generalize it, the soft pieces produce a faster burner fuel than the hard pieces. I use an old "Universal" hand meat grinder to grind up the chunks. This grinder is cast iron and durable. I set up an old wood step ladder outdoors, clamp the grinder on a rung and attach a plastic container with a strong rubberband to the end of the grinder. After crushing the charcoal in the meatgrinder, I powderize it in an electric coffee grinder and store it an airtight container. This has worked well for me and I think is a good starting point for someone new to rockets. I have reached a plateau in making BP rockets and next year will experiment with mesh sizes and making my own charcoal. I also plan on making some 6 lb BP coreburners, those rockets apparently require a mixture of different charcoal mesh sizes.

 

Anyone interested in the meatgrinder, you probably can find them at antique stores and garage sales. I bought my for $12 at a winery that had an antique knick-knack corner in the store. Don't bother buying a cheap China special - especially a cast aluminum one. I made that mistake and broke it in a few months. The old Universal brand ones are cast iron and very strong. Here's a picture I found online:

 

Edited December 2, 2009 by Eric70