DIYMark Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 I was about to make some stars which then i just remembered a important thing... I don't have any binder! So I was wondering if i could use Wheat paste? LOL (yes I am crazy) it could act as a binder and moisten the mix ?! Also is there any other binders I could use beside dextrin because I don't feel like baking corn flour for 4 hours
frogy Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 Hmm.. I have heard of laundry spray starch being used as a binder, but I don't believe it was in stars... Throw some Corn starch in the over, and get over with it... Dextrin needs made. I believe that SGRS (Soluble glutinous rice starch) can be made fairly quickly with white rice... I'm not sure of the process, but I believe Al has made it before... Or maybe Leosd. It's something like Steam, Press, Bake...
FrKoNaLeaSh1010 Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 Everytime I made dextrin it converted in way less than 4 hours more like 1 maybe two tops. Dextrin is one of the easiest binders to make/get. Other than that you need to buy red gum or shellac or find some rare unconventional method. I am pretty sure there is one blue star that uses silicone that comes in the tubes for a caulking gun as a binder.
DIYMark Posted June 28, 2008 Author Posted June 28, 2008 ...Throw some Corn starch in the over, and get over with it... Dextrin needs made... Don't tell me that! Ill took in the shops next time. However I'm not sure if they have the corn starch or that corn meal (ground up corn kernels) Ill have to check.
FrKoNaLeaSh1010 Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 Almost any food store will have corn starch....it isn't exactly a rare item. It is like a dollar or two for a pound.
frogy Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 Yes... Very common. I like to cook it on a metal pan lined with "parchment paper"... It's like a fancy wax paper for cooking... Very strong, very heat resistant, and very "stick resistant".
Swede Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 You could buy a quart can of shellac, pour a thin layer of it into a foil-lined pan, and let the alcohol evaporate until it is very thick. Shellac and Dex are about the easiest binders to get or make. Dextrin is child's play... an 8 yr old could make good dex.
Pretty green flame Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 You could buy a quart can of shellac, pour a thin layer of it into a foil-lined pan, and let the alcohol evaporate until it is very thick. Shellac and Dex are about the easiest binders to get or make. Dextrin is child's play... an 8 yr old could make good dex.Shellac is a shitty binder, most of the time the stars swell up and develop cracks. Also, Mark, yes you can also use wheat paste (a somewhat thinner consistency is desired for this) but beware, wheat paste dries SLOOOOWLY, 3/8" cut stars take over 2 weeks to fully dry, but the stars are rock hard. Dextrine is the easiest binder to use, and provides good binding properties. Why the hell is everyone talking about CORN starch, any starch will work, Corn, potato, wheat or rice starch, which ever you get, chuck it in the oven and it'll work just fine.
Mumbles Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 I hear tapioca starch is supposed to be one of the stickiest ones. I might be thinking of another use of starch in which tapioca is the best supposedly, but that relates more toward the HE section. Yes, wheat paste will be fine. It is a god send for cutting or pressing stars with large amounts of that greasy flake aluminum. In the amount of time that it would take to make SGRS, you could have several batches of dextrin made. I'd have to look it up somewhere, but it seemed like the process would take much longer and be more labor intensive than dextrin.
oskarchem Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 You gave me the preparation method of SGRS. You need to put white rice into cold water for 7 days, then steem it,( You have just made rice starch), and then cook it like dex. < This is if I remember correctly
pudidotdk Posted June 28, 2008 Posted June 28, 2008 It must be glutinous rice to work.I have some pictures from the process but I still need to ball mill it to turn it from coarse to dust before nowing about true stickyness.
Gunzway Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 They sell Corn Starch under Corn flour too.And yes, Safeway does sell it. So it shouldn't be hard to find.
DIYMark Posted June 29, 2008 Author Posted June 29, 2008 Ok thanks guys - by the look it it Ill have to make some dextrin. However... I made some stars yesterday for a rocket header. I used wheat paste and for like 50 grams of TT star comp all I needed was around 1/2 teaspoon of wheat paste (I didn't thin it). Any way I pumped some stars and dryed them under a light because I was in a hurry. But once they were dry they had shitty burn characteristics. The stars would sparkle a bit once the outer layer lit but once the outside was burnt the inside just glowed - as if the charcoal that was meant to fall for the TT effect just stayed in one clump... Not sure if this is my binder? or they may have been wet? Any one got any ideas? Any way made my rocket with those stars. However on launch I had the best CATO yet! My ender burner was pretty powerful but this time I failed to bother weighing the payload to see if it even would lift it. The rocket was 12.7mm ID and 80mm Long and weighed around 40 -50 grams. But when realised how heavy my shell was it was around 100 grams! and thats not including the stabilizer stick! Anyway, on ignition it s-l-o-w-l-y crept up the launch guide (it was on the verge of lifting off lol) then there was a huge bang and then a little spark trail went up into the air. Then a second huge bang and the shell burst. I guess I drilled the pass fire hole a bit to deep in the top clay plug and it when into the BP a bit too far (it was approx 5mm in). So once the fuel reached there it over pressurized and blew up (first bang) then this sent the shell up which after the black match burnt (small spark trail I saw going up) it set of the shell (last bang). Must have been a decent rocket CATO to send my 100gram shell up 6 meters into the air! As for my TT with wheat paste... they suck! It each star would leave like 20 sparks as it fell. Any charcoal intended to make the tail just stayed in one clump. Lessons learned: 1. Get proper binder 2. Check the rockets ability to lift the shell.
FrKoNaLeaSh1010 Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 Just to tell you charcoal streamer stars usually do sit there and after a quick flame they sit there in a glowing ember with lots of ash and residue. I used to think i was screwing them up or using too much dextrin or something but its just what they do....shoot them in the air and they will look like they should with the nice charcoal tail. The way a star looks sitting on the ground is rarely what it looks like moving at high speeds through the air.
oskarchem Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 Also as someone told me here, if you dry high content charcoal stars in the sun or in other places where it is hot, then there will be an outer "crust" that forms (a dry laver on top) ans the inside will stay wet for ever. My TT's don't burn just glow loike yous when this happened, but when I dryed them in the "shade" the burn very well.
DIYMark Posted June 29, 2008 Author Posted June 29, 2008 Thats a very valid point! Ive seen a few TT star test on Youtube and they burnt almost like the star comp its self. I might make a handful of stars (with thinned wheat paste) and let them sit somewhere few week or 2 and see what that burn like.
frogy Posted June 29, 2008 Posted June 29, 2008 Haha... I formed the "crust" on a few batches of TT\C6 a while back... This "crust" has an actual name, which currently escapes me. Well back to the stars, I left them in PET containers for about 4 months... Just recently (2 months ago ) found them, completely covered in a greenish mold, which looked similar to Stachybotrys (black mold: deadly)... Just wondering if they would work at all, I took them outside (gloved), and tried lighting 1 star from a distance (with my 7700 gas mask on)... It ignited instantly on flame contact, almost exploding like BP... Yet throwing Firedust everywhere (probably from the charcoal soaking so long underneath this "crust", and ignited the rest of the container of 3/4" cut stars... Showering me in molten Gladware... Lost some hair on that one. Yet only 1st degree burns despite the molten plastic sticking to my skin.
DIYMark Posted June 30, 2008 Author Posted June 30, 2008 Ow sounds nasty! Did they just burn really fast or they literally exploded?
frogy Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 Haha... They didn't detonate or anything They were basically like Corned BP, but porous... The stars were made pretty shabbily, though they were still pressed solid, then cut into odd rectangular prism shapes, not cubes. (I think this was my first batch of stars ever)... So imagine 1" by 1" by 1/2" rectangular prisms of BP, but with small tunnels and air pockets in it... Then throw on some poisonous mold... Frogy's stars alamode
Swede Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 frogy, that's wild, I would never have imagined mold on stars, but I guess it makes sense. You've got binders like dextrin, wheat paste, rice starch, and if the rest of the star is charcoal and KNO3, plenty of nutrients. I wonder if a star with barium or strontium would support mold. I guess it would be possible even for corned BP to get moldy, due to the binder.
frogy Posted June 30, 2008 Posted June 30, 2008 My basement is probably quite the spore farm also... Next time I get Pneumonia I'll probably be growing some mold I wonder if any "salt-seeking" molds would be attracted to Nitrate salts... I believe it was my TT that got moldy, the C6 Dried fine... I have no idea why this happened though... Neither were primed, or force dried, so a crust really shouldn't have formed. They were cut when far to damp though, from what I remember... They were shiny, and a pool of water even developed on the loaf before cutting.
pudidotdk Posted July 1, 2008 Posted July 1, 2008 I also had mold on my black match by storing it too early. Mold doesn't do anything, but it needs to be dried properly then handled more carefully.
DIYMark Posted July 2, 2008 Author Posted July 2, 2008 Dextrin is on the way! I got some corn flour today (aka wheaten corn flour as stated by the packet). To all the other Aussies here its available as Home Brand corn flour for like $1.39 for 500 grams. Ive got 500 grams cooking in the oven now. 500 grams should last ages seeing as you only really use like 5% of it in comps. Furthermore, I'm making a new ball mill as my "proof of concept/prototype" one wore out (the plastic container wore a hole in it). The main problem for me what design! I'm not sure of whether to go for the 2 rollers idea or direct drive of the jar? Does any one have anything to say on this? Also I need a decent jar for the mill. I want the jar to last too because the ball mill is kind of designed the around jar. Ive heard of using PVC but would the hardware even sell PVC in like 1 foot lengths? or would I have to buy a full length of PVC (approx 6 meters)? Also could I use an empty paint can? I know its steel but the cans are tin plated so there isn't any direct contact with steel and if there were steel exposed, lead and steel wont spark. Any input appreciated
frogy Posted July 2, 2008 Posted July 2, 2008 Lead and Steel won't spark, but Steel and steel will... Do you really think that if one piece of steel flakes off, that it won't break apart, and then just mix into your mixture. Unless there is a plastic coating inside a metal jar, I don't think that I would be using it for milling. I'm not sure where you live, but around here, almost all PVC sizes can be bought from sizes ranging from 2 feet to 10 feet or more.
Swede Posted July 2, 2008 Posted July 2, 2008 DIYMark, be sure the "corn flour" is starch, and not actual corn meal. I think it was Pipipi who went through this recently, and the stuff he bought was corn meal. The corn starch should be snow white, as fine as talc, soft and fluffy. When baked, it turns golden, and has a bit of a funky smell.
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