Shimizu B-70 Prime

[Bonny]

I'm currently rolling up a batch of Shimzu B-70:

 

Potassium Perchlorate 63.8

Parlon 13.8

Copper(II) Oxide, black 12.9

Red Gum 9.5

Dextrin 4

 

I plan on using some as cores for colour changing stars...probably TigerTail to blue for one. For the rest, what should I use as prime?

I will step prime if needed, but I was thinking either 'veline style' prime + a layer of meal, or trying a greenmix BP 'Universal prime' with Silicon and some Al. I'm hoping the greenmix prime will suffice as it only then needs one layer.

Any suggestions?

[psyco_1322]

I rolled some TT to blue, it wasnt that blue but was along them lines, I didnt prime mine and they lit from the TT just fine. The blue lights with bp prime anyways so I figured TT would be fine and it was.

[frogy]

I really do like the Veline superprime, though I think it's complete overkill for a Veline star.. Simply Greenmix or even Meal have been igniting my best... It seems to light exponentially faster by direct lighter flame than RCandy, which ignites with meal powder.

 

I like the added saw-dust\wood meal in the Veline prime. I really do think that it makes the stars "fuzzy" so they take fire quite a bit easily... I may add some wood meal to an over-oxidized meal powder to see how that works.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

I rolled some TT to blue, it wasnt that blue but was along them lines, I didnt prime mine and they lit from the TT just fine. The blue lights with bp prime anyways so I figured TT would be fine and it was.

I would step prime the stars. I wouldn't recommend only meal, it burns to quick and won't lit the star.

 

The velocity of the star just after burst is much faster, so thats different than TT to a colored core.

[frogy]

Over-lifting with a star gun provides a pretty good idea if your stars are going to work or not.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

Perhaps a little bit of H3 or even a tiny bit flash added to the lift of your stargun.

[Bonny]

The shitty thing as I have to go out of town to test...a real PITA. Most of my "testing is done when I employ the stars in a shell or mine.

I just don't want to make a bunch of stuff that blows blind.

[tentacles]

Bonny, did you test of pile of the comp to see the color? I'm just curious how strong of a blue it's giving. Don't have any parlon myself but I do have dechlorane saran and pvc.

[FrKoNaLeaSh1010]

I am not sure if thats the exact one I made but I made one of the shimizu blues using those chems ratio might be slightly different because I think shimizu had two different blues and it looked very good. It isn't as good as an ammonium perchlorate blue but it is deffinitely a nice blue. Also parlon can be changed for pvc if you adjust the amount slightly it is a 1:1.2 ratio iirc. I also believe saran can be interchanged for the redgum 1 part to 1 part.

[Mumbles]

The two that shimizu gave in FAST are different than this one. I am about 95% sure it came from one of his articles in the pyrotechnica journal series. He has an article on blue and purple flames I believe. They are all nice I hear though.

 

I do like parlon in blues and purples. It's a flame retardant, so it cools the flame down. You might get a slightly more washed out color with PVC, but I know for a fact that saran can definately make nice blues. I really like the idea about replacing Redgum with saran.

 

I've never used this specific formula, but it's high on my list. I have a very nice chlorate blue formula, and a very nice perc blue formula, but it's not quite ideal. The perc formula is the Wilbur Blue posted over on skylighter. BEAUTIFUL by the way. I don't want to have to rely on always being able to get dechlorane though. It also burns a tad slow. I can't really comment on their ignition ability. However most organic colored stars will light from just BP. You could always roll a couple with BP to see if they light before committing to a whole batch. If you use NC lacquer to adhere the BP, you could test same day. If the BP lights the stars, the tiger tail should as well. The blue cores should be dried before adding any more comp on the top anyway.

[pudidotdk]

Potassium Perc----------------38%

Ammonium Perc---------------29%

Copper Carbonate-------------14%

Red Gum------------------------14%

Dextrin--------------------------+4% or +5%

 

Gonna try this blue. I believe I had it from Burlhorse in the Star formulas thread on UKPS.

[Bonny]

Bonny, did you test of pile of the comp to see the color? I'm just curious how strong of a blue it's giving. Don't have any parlon myself but I do have dechlorane saran and pvc.

I burnt some comp and it looked pretty good. I always hold back on conclusions until I've seen the results at night in the air though. I'll have to burn a star and compare with ammonium perc blue I have around here somewhere. Maybe a small mine with one of each would be a good plan.

 

Anyway I'll probably try rolling a few stars with bp based 'universal' prime before comitting the whole batch. I still have more layers to roll on anyway.I'm new at rolling stars and started with what turns out to be one hell of a lot of cores. The good is I'll have enough stars to last awhile.

[jadesource]

The two that shimizu gave in FAST are different than this one. I am about 95% sure it came from one of his articles in the pyrotechnica journal series. He has an article on blue and purple flames I believe. They are all nice I hear though.

 

I do like parlon in blues and purples. It's a flame retardant, so it cools the flame down. You might get a slightly more washed out color with PVC, but I know for a fact that saran can definately make nice blues. I really like the idea about replacing Redgum with saran.

 

I've never used this specific formula, but it's high on my list. I have a very nice chlorate blue formula, and a very nice perc blue formula, but it's not quite ideal. The perc formula is the Wilbur Blue posted over on skylighter. BEAUTIFUL by the way. I don't want to have to rely on always being able to get dechlorane though. It also burns a tad slow. I can't really comment on their ignition ability. However most organic colored stars will light from just BP. You could always roll a couple with BP to see if they light before committing to a whole batch. If you use NC lacquer to adhere the BP, you could test same day. If the BP lights the stars, the tiger tail should as well. The blue cores should be dried before adding any more comp on the top anyway.

 

I like the color of the wilbur blue but i dont like using alot of dechlorane . I now its not that poisonous compared to some of the other chems we use . But i switched over to the b70 myself it is a nice blue although i use saran instead of parlon because that is what i have the most of. i would always layer prime them 50/50 comp and prime and use 7% silicon in your prime . i also use 3% DE or diatomaciuos earth pool grade is the best for size but if you get any other kind screen it between 40 and 80 mesh and use what is in between . It makes a lot of little points to catch fire easier. it works way better than the sawdust called for in the veline primes.

[jadesource]

Perhaps a little bit of H3 or even a tiny bit flash added to the lift of your stargun.

 

you wouldnt need any of those things to be able to overlift a star if you have good BP just doubling your bp amount is enough to blow it blind in tests.

You now when your prime is working real good when you shoot it so hard that it has to slow down before it lights but still lights. on passfire there is a gentlman who has really done a great service in creating a great prime they call it the fencepost prime because it would lite a fencepost in a rain storm. If that has already been shared here i could elaborate more. i have been away from this forum for a while so i dont now

[TheSidewinder]

*****snip*****

i have been away from this forum for a while

*****snip*****

 

Boy, I'll say.

 

Welcome back!

Don't be so scarce in the future.

[Bonny]

I tested these stars (B70) last week and they looked quite good. I did have quite a few blown blind though, even though they were step primed with BP+Si prime and then final layer of bp. I don't think the burst was too hard, but maybe that was the problem. My 3" ball shells were burst with 4:1BP/vermiculite and 2 teaspoons of sodium benz whistle added as a booster.

The TT to blues worked great though, in a mine it was a very nice effect, TT going up and blue falling down. They also looked good in shells too.

[jadesource]

I tested these stars (B70) last week and they looked quite good. I did have quite a few blown blind though, even though they were step primed with BP+Si prime and then final layer of bp. I don't think the burst was too hard, but maybe that was the problem. My 3" ball shells were burst with 4:1BP/vermiculite and 2 teaspoons of sodium benz whistle added as a booster.

The TT to blues worked great though, in a mine it was a very nice effect, TT going up and blue falling down. They also looked good in shells too.

 

When you say step primed with BP+SI prime and then a final layer of BP. What you really mean is 50% blue comp and 50% SI prime (right) if not that is your problem it really needs to be 50% of what ever comp your using for the stars plus the SI prime then I finish with the SI prime if your still having problems blowing blind do a 3 step prime 66%comp then 33% prime next 33%comp. then 66%prime then SI prime.

[Bonny]

When you say step primed with BP+SI prime and then a final layer of BP. What you really mean is 50% blue comp and 50% SI prime (right) if not that is your problem it really needs to be 50% of what ever comp your using for the stars plus the SI prime then I finish with the SI prime if your still having problems blowing blind do a 3 step prime 66%comp then 33% prime next 33%comp. then 66%prime then SI prime.

 

 

The prime was indeed 50% blue comp and 50% "universal prime" which is basically a greenmix BP with Si. This was followed with a layer of straight BP. I thought they would ignite without any difficulty, escpecially considering TT can get them going in a 50/50 transition layer.

 

I've added another layer of prime to the stars I have left. This time I used a thin BP slurry and some granulated BP (maybe around 40 mesh). The stars shoyuld have no problems lighting now as they have a very rough/bumpy/grainy surface now.

[tentacles]

Bonny: Maybe try adding some diatomaceous earth to the bp + Si mix, to make fence post. I can give you some DE, or you could probably find some at a pet shop (try bird and aquarium over on main, or the (fish box?) also on main).

[Bonny]

Bonny: Maybe try adding some diatomaceous earth to the bp + Si mix, to make fence post. I can give you some DE, or you could probably find some at a pet shop (try bird and aquarium over on main, or the (fish box?) also on main).

 

 

I think the main problem I had was the prime not igniting for some reason as in all my tests the stars lit quite easily once the prime fired up. Maybe the (rolled) stars were too smooth??

I think using a BP slurry then granulated BP will remedy my problem.

Using the fencepost prime as the sole prime is definately worth trying as I would then only need one layer. Would the fencpost prime work if it was applied as a slurry? I don't see why not...

There are quite a few pet stores around so it shouldn't be hard to find.

[FREAKYDUTCHMEN]

It have to be a bit coarse (fence post) prime powder, ballmill your meal for 15 to 30 minutes (max), ad the silicon and DE afterwards. The stars will have to look like sandpaper.

[Bonny]

It have to be a bit coarse (fence post) prime powder, ballmill your meal for 15 to 30 minutes (max), ad the silicon and DE afterwards. The stars will have to look like sandpaper.

 

 

When I roll stars and use the "universal prime" (basically greenmix with Si and Al) I have also stared adding a few % of sawdust to acheive the same result.

Using the BP slurry prime layer followed by granulated BP leaves a VERY coarse finish on the stars. I'm quite confident that it will work.

[Karlos]

Perchlorate blue can be rolled with standart black powder, no metal povder, no Si. Perchlorate blue is very easy to ignite, like another redgum compositions.

[jadesource]

It have to be a bit coarse (fence post) prime powder, ballmill your meal for 15 to 30 minutes (max), ad the silicon and DE afterwards. The stars will have to look like sandpaper.

 

If we were to get at the heart of what makes the fencepost prime so good when looking at just the charcoal. My buddy Gene who came up with it will use 80% balsa and 20% hardwood airfloat . He will ball mill the 80% balsa with the other ingrediants for 15 to 30 minits depending on the fineness of your starting ingrediants. then adds the 20% hardwood airfloat with the SI and DE at the end. His thinking is the very fast charcoal starts it quickly but the slower charcoal.

hangs around longer to help with the hard to light comps. Now with balsa charcoal this is the best prime I have ever seen .

I can shoot stars so hard out of my star gun it should be blown blind and actually looks that way for a moment then it slows down and lights, its actually quite cool looking. As compared to a regular BP prime I can almost use twice as much BP in the stargun before it will shoot the fencepost primed star blind as compared to the regular BP primed star . but i have found that i can get good results with willow. mostly now i use red alder because i have tons of the stuff and its my main charcoal I make. Now its not as good of a prime as the balsa Charcoal prime but I have never had a problem with red alder or willow as my fast charcoal the prime is just that good . i think what makes Balsa charcoal so good for the prime and also for super fast BP is the fact that its so much lighter. by shear volume there is just huge differance. Having said that i like to keep my balsa for burst in small shells and things of that nature because its so expensive and hard to get.

[jadesource]

Bonny the prime works great in a slurry I use that on my pumped stars all the time . The granulated BP method you spoke of Im sure will work excellent also. I use that method on all my comets. i have a bad habit of making alot of shells that are plastic ball shells with a flash break in the 3,4 and 5 inch range. so i prime all my stars I little heavier than some do who acheive excellent results with just a BP prime on the blues as Karlos said . But being that Im flash breaking at least 1/2 of all my stuff. I step prime all my perchlorate color stars. I guess my thought is I can light all canister shells or standard made round shells with blue that has been primed with BP . But If I flash break them I get alot that is blown blind.

On the other hand Jim Widman recently shared his prime method with us on passfire when he has a hard to light star he will prime a two layer prime the first layer would be a perchlorate prime 13 KP=4 redgum=3 fine AL flake or granuler. then a BP based prime for a topcoat. He said he doesnt use a regular step prime like we were talking about. So theres another way to skin that cat. just keep the star testing gun going

Edited August 24, 2008 by jadesource