ST1DinOH Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 so i'm reading my pyro books and they talk about making willow stars/comp by use of whats sounds an awful lot like the CIA method for making BP. my question is am i just able to take the raw ingredients, screen them together, and roll stars with it? or do i need to go through the process of heating it up in water and all that jazz? i just got around to picking up a few metal mixing bowls and i've got some spray bottles and the small lead shot to use as cores...basicly i'm almost there just hoping to start with a simple star comp that will look nice. i was under the impression that willows were one of the easier ones to do since it's basicly modified BP comp. if i have to go through all the BS to make willows i'd rather just avoid them till i get more experience under my belt
FREAKYDUTCHMEN Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 These Type of stars are quite hard to roll.I'm working on a TT + Ti batch right at this moment. I make the composition by screning or milling or both of each. Then whetten the compo with 10% water and let it dry. This will help to make the particle size a bit bigger so you wont get bumpy stars that easy. Use enough alcohol in your spraybottle, 50/50 or so in the beginning. When the stars getting bigger you can use 80/20, so more water is added in your spray bottle, this helps the stars to grow faster.More alcohol prevents the stars to stick to eachother, what happens quite often when the stars are little.
ST1DinOH Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 These Type of stars are quite hard to roll.I'm working on a TT + Ti batch right at this moment. I make the composition by screning or milling or both of each. Then whetten the compo with 10% water and let it dry. This will help to make the particle size a bit bigger so you wont get bumpy stars that easy. Use enough alcohol in your spraybottle, 50/50 or so in the beginning. When the stars getting bigger you can use 80/20, so more water is added in your spray bottle, this helps the stars to grow faster.More alcohol prevents the stars to stick to eachother, what happens quite often when the stars are little.thank you, so it is possible to just roll them out. i found it kinda strange that the books talk about rolling stars but when it came time for the special "willow" segment they made special mention of heating it all up in a coffe pot on a hot plate and stirring it and blah, blah, blah. it kinda ticked me off because i was honestly looking forward to cutting my teeth on star rolling with a little TT batch. thankfully it sounds as if i still can. few questions if you have time... i have no ball mill, so am i ok to just screen the chems together and then roll with that? or does milling them together do something more for the end result. also, is it "ok" to mill willow together, i assume the awnser is yes as it is essentialy a modified BP mix but i'm learning quick to not assume anything in this side of the hobby. whats a good size for willow stars for 3 inch shells? how about 6 inch shells? is it necessary to prime willow stars (again because they are essentially a "BP" comp i would think the'd be easy to burn) or do i need to do like a 50/50 over coat of meal and willow comp during the final stages of the star rolling? last question, i'm thinking of rolling large stars for use in a 6 inch willow, do i need to be concerned about "driven in" moisture when rolling willows? and if so is it ok or better to roll the large stars in stages. sorry for the massive list of questions, but i figure who better to ask than a guy doing the exact same thing i'm about to attempt for the first time. also, your shells are amazing so i know you know your stuff. hope you don't mind me picking your brain here. just trying to have a sucessfull first run of star rolling so as not to get discouraged.
psyco_1322 Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 Most willow type stars require that they be milled before hand to incorperate the KNO3 into the charcoal to insure complete burn, otherwise your will get major fall out. So yes its safe. The CIA method you read about is the alternative to milling, most likely the author didnt have a mill either. Dont quote me on this but I think this willow can be made without ball milling. I made a small batch to test it and it looked really nice. Chrysanthemum of MysteryKNO3 - 45Airfloat Charcoal- 50SGRS - 5 You could substitute dextrin in for SGRS. Some people dont prime there willows, I usually just dust them a little with some green mix. But if you prime them do it AFTER they dry. BP will dry much faster than the charcoal streamer and it will cause driven in problems. As for size, it kinda depends on how you make your shells. Some shoot there shells high and with a long time fuse, some break 4" shells at the hight of a 3" and seem to like there shells a little closer to the ground. But a good rule for a 3" willow would be something like 3/8"-1/2" depending on the speed of burning. Then it depends on wether your making a real willow shell or a chrysanthemum shell. For a 6" im not sure, I would say that about 1/2" to 3/4" would be ok. I know Ned Gorski made some 8" shells with his willow formula pressed into 3/4" stars. But those were pressed and that would probably make them burn longer than if it was just consolidated by hand. It wouldnt be such a bad idea to stop and let your stars dry a bit every so often when rolling.
Swede Posted June 17, 2008 Posted June 17, 2008 I'm pretty new so take this with a grain of salt, but the first stars I made were Shimizu Golden Wave #3, "Gold Fire Dust Stars." I substituted Fe for the steel filings, and used a homemade pump. These stars went together easily and were beautiful... a really simple star, too, formula-wise. Potassium Nitrate 16 Steel Filings 5 Charcoal Airfloat 2 Meal Powder 2 Shellac 0.5 I've now got three batches of stars just waiting to go into a shell or rocket header. The reason I know they look nice is I loaded a few mines, and they were crowd-pleasers, the crowd being my wife and teenage kids. Good luck!
ST1DinOH Posted June 17, 2008 Author Posted June 17, 2008 thanks guys, appreciate the heads up. not sure if i'll be rolling this out this weekend or 2 months from now but this will be my first batch. things are just so damn hectic now with the 4th slowly approaching i don't know what end's up right now. hopefully i'll have time to squeeze this in before the 4th to add to my show, but i'm not sure how possible that is.
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