Use of Drugs, Yay or Nay?

[viziers]

Well 3000 hits of lucy in the sky and numerous amounts of shrooms later and i have not ended up like the person in the movie called "Altered States" great move when your really burnt makes you REALLY wonder.... But those days have been 10 or so years over now and im still fully functional.....

 

 

P.S. for those of you who havent seen it you NEED TO!!

[DeAdFX]

Here is a quick jott(sp) down of thought.

 

Thoughts on OTC drugs --> I avoid them unless I really need them. Ie I have a really bad head ache.

 

Recreational drugs --> I avoid them because every single "druggies" I have encounter are major fucktards or they try to bum money off of their friends.

 

Myth or fact quit trying to fucking justify your god damn stand on drugs with some lousy ass non sense. I hate assholes bumming money off of me. Take your fucking addiction/passion/hobby some where else...

[Rogue Chemist]

A druggie friend of mine abbandoned another friends car many miles away and walked back instead of driving for the reason 'the werewolves were chasing me'.

[AprenticeChemist]

Drugs are ok if you use moderation and use "safe" ones. I mean i would only ever use marijuiana and alcohol because its impossible to OD on weed and I would never drink enough to get alcohol poisoning. ANd those drugs dont effect you to bad as long as you are smart enough to not go driving or stupid shit after wards. If you use them in moderation and dont let them effect your life then its ok. But other harder more dangerous drugs are no bueno(Bad in espanol/spainish) But pyro and drugs definatly dont mix. If your spending ltos of money on drugs its bad I never really spend any money on them and don't really plan on it. Drugs are not bad such as weed I mean its just as bad as drinking or smoking a cigeratte(actually better then smoking tobbaco in my opionon), so no biggie just dont let them take over.

 

Also as a note im a wee bit tipsy still tonight haha.

[s25]

I hate drugs.I think drugs remove youre ability to make decisions and to mind youreself,I could never understand people being able to simply let themselves go with drugs.......I have too many whats ifs...

Thats just from being around people on drugs,I am proud to say I never have done drugs.Also OTC drugs i barely use!I think that by hiding the pain I cannot gauge myself and no when I am actualy healing....

[mormanman]

Wow this was an interesting read. Did anyone still active here read this recently.

Personally I support medical usage of drugs nothing else. I hate the effects and if the effects don't really exist the thought of them scary the crap out of me. I don't like tobacco nor alcohol and I know what your thinking, people here brew there own. The only reason I don't like it is drunk drivers. I love it is b/c with out it and when the tried it with prohibition organized crime. So I think that the government should keep drugs illegal even with weed b/c if the let weed in whats next?

Thats my two cents. Now I'm broke

[Seymour]

Phew...

 

I just finished reading the entire thing. There seemed to be a strong (but not absolute) link between eloquent, informed posts and posts that were pro choice and/or anti prohibition. While everything I can say has already been covered I'll throw in my opinion anyway.

 

I believe that when you get into the rights and wrongs of drug use it can become pretty tricky. I believe that Cannabis use can be very low risk, and even beneficial, though there is certainly potential for abuse. The same is the case with all other recreational drugs, which I will not list, some of them have much more potential for abuse than others. I see legality of substances as fluid and not set in concrete, and view all recreational drugs, legal or illegal, as in the same category.

 

While it is true that Cannabis along with many other drugs only has the potential for psychological addiction, that is not to say that it is not addictive. Psychological addiction is real and destroys lives.

 

I believe that the argument stating that abuse of a psychoactive substance (or other dangerous activity) only hurts the abuser is flawed. The damage extends to the abusers family and friends, and there is also the medical cost - though I will address that later. However if we were going to try and avoid any risk of harming other people we would find ourselves unable to do many day to day activities and life would become close to imposable. Drawing the line is not an easy task.

 

I believe that all harm caused by drugs is made worse by prohibition. It should not take a genius to realize that if a popular good is banned, trade of it will fall into the criminal world. High prices which lead to theft to fund an addiction, unknown doses and laced drugs all come as part of the prohibition package. While dodgy deals are a part of all commerce; legal or illegal, prohibition removes any legal incentives to provide a safer product. In Switzerland Heroin addicts can get a free supply and clean needles from the government. Besides isolating users from crime and making the drug safer, this allows the government to engage with the users and give them maximum support and encouragement to beat the habit.

 

Regardless of the legal status of a substance, if it feels good to take it, many people will. Some substances, like Alcohol and Tobacco are legal to sell, though heavily taxed. This tax goes towards paying for the cost that these substances. By allowing more drugs that are currently illegal to be sold this way the revenue from tax, added to the money saved that would otherwise go towards the "war on drugs", there should be enough money to cover the costs of drug abuse.

 

I'm not sure what the situation is in other countries, but in New Zealand it is illegal to sell hemp seed as a food. This is not because it is dangerous - in fact it contains no Cannabinoids and is a highly nutritious food - but because it will "send a mixed message". In a similar situation, right now in the opium poppy growing places of the world huge quantities of heroin and opium are confiscated from the impoverished growers and destroyed. This is while there is a chronic shortage of opium derived painkillers worldwide, particularly in poor countries. If instead of stealing and destroying the drugs, they were purchased for the painkiller market the growers would not be in debt to warlords, the gangs would get less heroin to traffic, and there would be a surplus of opium derived medicines. The only thing preventing this is the fear of sending a "mixed message".

 

When people see a fool wandering down the street embarrassing his or herself, or causing damage to property or persons, instead of blaming the drugs, blame the poverty and the consumerist culture that taught them to overindulge. Fail that, blame their stupidity. I know the comparison to fireworks has been done to death, but I would not look hard to find someone who wants to ban fireworks for all of us because of some C*^&5 abusing them. You may only have experienced drugs by witnessing such people, but then again, you stay away from psychoactive. People who have similar views of fireworks would never dream that there is a responsible, academic community out there producing art with fire. While you may doubt it, I can assure you a similar community exists for the purpose of researching and celebrating psychoactive substances and promoting their safe use.

 

I do not support a free market libertarian approach to drugs, but I know that total prohibition does not work, will not work and does more harm than good.

[yellowcard]

I don't think you can say that drugs are good or bad. It depends on what kind of drug, in which enviroment is is taken and in what psychic condition the user is.

I'm from holland so you can just buy marijuana (''wiet'') and magic mushrooms (''paddo's'') and many more just legal in a shop when you're 18 years old.

 

So i would say, drugs yay, since I find myself quite responsible and in a perfect stable psychic condition. Choose the good ones use it in the right conditions with the right people with everything there is to know about the drug in your mind and i think it's fine.

I'm 17 and no i'm not from Amsterdam i'm from a city called Delft.

[LGM]

I will not try to claim that what I have read or experienced is gospel, I am just stating my opinion based on what I know. Marijuana, alcohol, and perhaps harder drugs when used very sparingly, are perfectly alright and a reasonably safe (yes, there can be negative effects, no debate there) thing to do. If someone derives joy, pleasure, or a general improvement in emotional or physical well being from using a drug that is not hurting other people; then I cannot see why they should not be allowed to pursue that route of happiness.

Drugs themselves do not directly harm other people beside the user, it is the effects that the drug can have when misused. Don't blame the gun, blame the shooter.

 

I know several people who smoke pot regularly (I don't mean that they do it several times a day, once a week or less). They are very intelligent,kind, and funny people who get good grades and are nice to be around.

 

Although I have never used drugs, I think that I might take marijuana if offered. This is assuming that I had no activities requiring my complete attention for several days.

Edited August 14, 2008 by LGM

[mormanman]

I just think I should point this out. Our parents drilled into us, or my parents drilled into me, drugs are bad no questions asked. I see a huge change in the way we act from the way we were raised.

I want to do an experiment like Freud or however you spell his name. I want to get two kids one I would be extremely hard on, telling him to get good grade, don't drink, smoke, do drugs, listen to rap, or any music that I don't approve of, practice you instrument everyday, pretty much make him hate me. The other let them do what ever they want as long as they pay for it, tell them drugs are ok, you can drink, smoke, do anything just as long as you pay for it. Then I want to see which one will turn out which way and which one will die first.

It would be expensive and would hurt to see the outcome. It would be cool to see though.

[flying fish]

^^^ I bet studies have already been done on the topic...so you probably don't have to experiment with your own offspring! Plus you would have to keep the kids isolated from each other...otherwise the fact that the kids see that each other are getting different treatment will also become an factor potentially screwing up the "experiment."

 

Me and my siblings were pretty mellow, so my parents never really worried about us getting into drugs (which we didn't). They never pounded anything into us...we just didn't grow up around drugs, never needed them, and never had the urge to try them. I think one week when I was really "out of it" they were like..."you aren't snorting anything, are you?", but that was the extent of their (non-existent) drug paranoia.

 

The funny thing is...that my parents never really talked about drugs...and we all assumed that they never touched them either. Come to find out only in the last year "it was the 60's/70's....everyone was was high!" Apparently basement marijuana gatherings were a common thing. That 70s' show style! In that sort of setting, I would almost be tempted to try it just to see what it was all about...but smoking just doesn't seem fashionable any more these days!

[mormanman]

They wouldn't be my kids and yeah one would one go to one school and the other would go to another. I would adopt. I'm not going to do it though.

[flying fish]

Maybe that's a good thing. Experimenting with peoples' lives may be fun, but it's still not a very nice thing to do .

[mormanman]

Oh it would be really mean but very interesting. Thats what they should make reality shows about. LOL.

[mormanman]

I don't know if this should be considered a double post any way.

Has anyone hear of DMT, its suppose to be awesome. Wikipedia it, its suppose to be like the strongest and most illegal. Your brain is suppose to produce it when in REM sleep.

I'm looking for conformation on this I don't know where to get it and have never heard of it from anyone. So...

[crazyboy25]

Never heard of it but checked wiki I doubt it's "the strongest" but it is Schedule 1 meaning its in the group with other drugs considered dangerous and with no medical purpose (but then again so is pot.)

 

 

I have never done drugs but I have no problem with people who use them quietly or without hurting other people. I have zero interest qt all in stimulants like cocaine and meth or depressants like heroin or alcohol or painkillers like Vicodin. However I am intrigued by hallucinogenics and psychotropic drugs though I have never tried them.

 

 

Please keep anything like synthesis or information or anything out I really don't want this to become a forum for cooks.

Edited August 31, 2008 by crazyboy25

[FrankRizzo]

The Lycaeum, best resource for researching things of this nature.

 

http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=11

 

Phalaris arundinacea - a *very* common noxious weed and source of DMT.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Rietgras_bloeiwijze_Phalaris_arundinacea.jpg/449px-Rietgras_bloeiwijze_Phalaris_arundinacea.jpg

[Richtee]

Never heard of it

 

Me either..but a good break on a shell has it all over any short acting drug I have ever partook of. :{)

[Swede]

In the military, dexedrine was handed out like candy by the flight surgeons for any intense, sustained effort, and especially it is used for ocean crossings in single-seat fighters. The only caveat in its use for a pond-crossing was "If you take one, you MUST take another every X hours until you land; otherwise, you will have a terrible time focusing when the drug wears off, possibly at a critical moment." In flying to West Germany back in the cold war days, we would land, and then use the pills to keep going to the gasthauses for a night of revelry.

 

My feeling now, as then, was that the pills were effective and useful to acclimate to a new time zone for possible immediate deployment into combat. I remember the feeling to be nothing more than sharp focus without caffeine-style jitters. Of course if used for any length of time, like any stimulant, you're screwed.

 

Now in the airline world, we get tested frequently and it is almost impossible to abuse drugs without losing your job. The funny thing, though, is that they test for only 5 drugs. Many drugs aren't even tested for, notably the hallucinogens. MJ is tested, but not LSD or mushrooms. Older people normally aren't into hallucinogens - the experience apparently becomes less and less pleasant as you age.

[oskarchem]

Now in the airline world, we get tested frequently and it is almost impossible to abuse drugs without losing your job. The funny thing, though, is that they test for only 5 drugs. Many drugs aren't even tested for, notably the hallucinogens. MJ is tested, but not LSD or mushrooms. Older people normally aren't into hallucinogens - the experience apparently becomes less and less pleasant as you age.

 

Not only in the airline world, I got tested for drugs for my private lisence. If ever you test positive for marijuana or something like that, you get a nice red stamp on your folder for the rest of your life: "Drug test positive", the only way to get that stamp of is to go into rehab (eaven if you just smoked marijuana once) and have tests like evry 2 months for like a year or somthing like that (Because pot stays in your blood stream for 3 months)...

 

Would anyone know if I inhailed some fumes, let's say that a friend was smoking pot, and I was standing next to him, would I come up positive?

[Mumbles]

You'd be fine. I've been to concerts and with buddies and never had an issue with drug tests. Marijuana only stays in your system for 2-3 months with continual use. I've heard figures as low as 2-3 weeks for a one time use. Then again, I've also heard rumors of people testing positive after many years. This usually corresponded with a sudden loss of weight, so it is released from the fat cells. I'm not sure that I believe it, but it did come from someone with a PhD in Pharmacology.

 

I have heard of DMT by the way. There is a closely related analogue called 5-MeO-DMT. Being an analogue it's still probably illegal, but not specifically mentioned. The 5-Methoxy form is actually stronger. Closely related to psycadelic mushrooms. A few years ago you could still buy it from some shady "medical testing" supply places. A certain unnamed moderator from another forum was trying to get me to buy some of it. He had it, and a few other things from a company, and he always talked it up. I never did. I hear the experience is similar to LSD, but lasts for an hour or so tops. Probably leading to the name of "businessmans LSD" because they could do it on their lunch break. I also hear it tastes like plastic.

[crazyboy25]

Yeah I did some reading from what I can gather:

 

Powerful visual hallucinogens

inactive orally unless combined with a MAO inhibitor

short lasting 10-30 minutes if smoked dosage 50-100mg

longer if oral w/ MAOI

 

This is about should drugs be legal not DMT.

[FrKoNaLeaSh1010]

To the person talking about military use of dexedrine you are definitely correct. they call them "go pills" and it is dexamphetamine and they give them to the pilots for focus and concentration on long missions. They also give you "no go pills" which are Restoril (temazepam) a benzodiazepine which is in the same family of drugs like xanax valium and klonopin(rivotril to the foreign people).

 

As to the use of drugs....i definitely think that recreational use of drugs is ok...unfortunately it is illegal but ok. I am not a fan of hullucinogins but stimulants and depressants are alright in my book. You can legally ingest ethanol which is a depressant so i dont understand why you cant take other depressants legally like benzodiazepines or opiates. I think recreational drug use is ok although it usually leads to addiction....of which i have personal experience with. I started out many years ago using drugs recreationally and now i am psychologically addicted to getting high. I am not physically addicted to any particular drug but i can not sleep at night unless i have some sort of depressant like an opiate or benzo or marijuana at some point during the night. I dont take anything during the day though....only at night after i am done working or doing what i have to get done.

[crazyboy25]

As to the use of drugs....i definitely think that recreational use of drugs is ok...unfortunately it is illegal but ok. I am not a fan of hullucinogins but stimulants and depressants are alright in my book. You can legally ingest ethanol which is a depressant so i dont understand why you cant take other depressants legally like benzodiazepines or opiates. I think recreational drug use is ok although it usually leads to addiction....of which i have personal experience with. I started out many years ago using drugs recreationally and now i am psychologically addicted to getting high. I am not physically addicted to any particular drug but i can not sleep at night unless i have some sort of depressant like an opiate or benzo or marijuana at some point during the night. I dont take anything during the day though....only at night after i am done working or doing what i have to get done.

 

 

Why should hallucinogens be illegal but not stimulants and depressants? Have you ever heard of hippies whoring and killing people to trip out? Hallucinogens are not very addictive and have virtually no withdrawal symptoms. How many interventions have you seen where people are addicted to LSD or Salvia? None.

 

 

I'm really sorry you use opiates but that doesn't make them OK.

 

It Is possible to use mushrooms or LSD or Salvia recreationally or once and then quit, most do. Very rarely do people shoot heroin then say "it was OK I don't really have a desire to do it again"

 

Do you know anyone who used meth, cocaine, crack or heroin then quit just because they felt like it or it cost too much?

[FrKoNaLeaSh1010]

You need to learn how to read. I never said that hullucinogens should be illegal and stims and depressants should be legal. This thread is about if a members approves the use of drugs and i said i dont like hullucinogens yet i do like some stimulants and most depressants. Think about it like this and u might actually comprehend what i was saying....if there are legal depressants like alcohol....then all of them should be legal. Why should one be legal yet others illegal when even alcohol can be addictive so it isnt a question of addictiveness. There is no legal hullucinogens so in theory none should be. When you think about it it does make sense. If they are going to ban depressants then even alcohol should be banned. I am not advocating the legalization of drugs just pointing out a flaw in the system. If one thing is illegal then all things in the same class should be illegal the same way if something is legal...then everything similar should be legal.

 

Also as far as saying hullucinogins are safe and they dont cause problems that is completely false. i know someone who was on LSD and was trying to cut off his own penis and had to be wrestled to the ground and held there while waiting to be taken away in an ambulance to the hospital.....so hullucinogens can cause bad things just as well as other drugs. So although hullucinogens arnt addictive....they can still be destructive in other ways. Addictiveness is not the only way a drug can be destructive.

 

and as for knowing people who have tried cocaine, or crack and can stop whenever they want....i am one of those people. Contrary to popular belief you do not get physically addicted your first time. It takes repetitive use to build up an addiction. I used to use cocaine and crack recreationally every weekend and never felt any urges at all to do them again and i havnt touched them in 2 years. I stopped and never had a problem not touching them. Not everyone who touches an addictive drug gets addicted. I also used to sniff heroin....yet dont touch that anymore either. I also used to sniff heroin yet never had an urge to inject it and will never inject anything ever in my life. I only take prescription opiates and benzodiazepines(keeping it schedule II and below). I know a couple other people personally that have also smoked crack or sniffed cocaine or heroin and now dont do it anymore. I am not saying that i am clean by any means but i have stopped the harder drugs recreationally without any problems and any thought to do them again. So to answer your question...yes i know a couple people that have stopped hard stimulants or depressants without any problem. also just for a bit of knowledge....heroin is actually cheaper than any prescription opiate...so if anything the price would move an opiate addict towards its use not away from it.

 

Also it pisses me off how everyone thinks heroin is so much more addictive than other opiates when it is nothing more than diacetylmorphine and once it enters your body it metabolizes into morphine so it is just another opiate yet everyone makes such a big deal about it saying it is so much more addictive. The only reason i can see is that a majority of the people inject it although you can also insufflate it or inhale it but injecting is a lot more addicting.

Also everyone thinks crack is so much worse than cocaine...when it is nothing more than a basic cocaine salt instead of cocaine hydrochloride. Either way you are still taking cocaine into your body its just the method of taking it.

 

The only reason why i stopped taking stimulants was because i dont like them anymore and stopped without any problems. I stopped taking heroin just because of the stigma attached to it even though it is just another opiate. I am also currently trying to stop my use of prescription opiates and benzodiazepines...although that is a work in progress.

Edited September 4, 2008 by FrKoNaLeaSh1010